Confirmed with Link: Rangers Sign Lee Stempniak (1 year, 900K)

[Tawnos]

Perhaps that is what you are perceiving, but not what I'm saying. I'm stating that there are players that always end up on losing teams. Good and capable players that are just losers.

Players such as that get shorter and lower term and valued contracts.

If that is beyond the level of comprehension of some then so be it.

No one is referring to some curse, or bad luck charm of a player.

Jokinen got a $5.25m contract after putting up 91 points. He got a $3m contract after putting up 50 points. He got a $4.5m deal after putting up 61 points. He got a $2.5m deal after putting up 43 points.

Sounds like his salary is following his point production. That other stuff is just garbage.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

Let's stop with the economics, I would love to debate about the historically unfair salaries for tons of occupations (including teachers) in contemporary America due to global hypercapitalism but here's not the place .

Here's some economics: Stemp for 900k is a great price, Glass for 1.45 isn't.

 

[Mikos87]

Jokinen got a $5.25m contract after putting up 91 points. He got a $3m contract after putting up 50 points. He got a $4.5m deal after putting up 61 points. He got a $2.5m deal after putting up 43 points.

Sounds like his salary is following his point production. That other stuff is just garbage.

See I think that teams pay more for guys that have won or have been part of competitive teams in the playoffs.

Jokinen's contract after his stint with the Rangers sealed his reputation as that sort of player, a guy that you don't win with. His product during the 5.25M AAV years is very good yet he took a pay cut.

Arbitration lawyers look at stats in a vacuum to determine value much like a horse with blinders, they have to since the law is based on precendents and market value.

Judgement value is a little different. Having seen "winners" get overpaid by the Rangers (Holik, Gomez, Drury, Richards) you should be able to see that teams over pay for guys that have won and don't really want guys that haven't if the options aren't limited.

The other stuff isn't just "garbage" as you communicated. There are players in the NHL that have lower value than their ability or worth because they haven't contributed towards a winner.

This is a factor in teams not being in bidding wars over the services of a player causing his price to stay low.

 

[Fletch]

The one thing I do not like about the signing, and it's only because I read this in a Daily News blurb announcing the signing, is that the assumption is that the fourth line is Glass/Lombardi/Stempniak and that Moore would be this team's third line centerman. Obviously a lot still needs to be done, but I just wanted to get out the notion that if Moore is a third line centerman, this team will have tons of troubles. I love Moore, but he wears down and doesn't keep up over long stretches when put into a bigger role.

On another note, on Stempniak, I guess why not? Last I saw him he was getting less and less minutes as he wasn't too effective on a fourth line against the Rangers. The Rangers, a team who isn't known for its offensive prowess. Makes you worry if this team goes up against PITT again in the playoffs. Two guys (Glass and Stempniak) who seemingly couldn't keep up with the Rangers now will be facing PITT's top lines. Ugh!

 

[McDonagh27]

The one thing I do not like about the signing, and it's only because I read this in a Daily News blurb announcing the signing, is that the assumption is that the fourth line is Glass/Lombardi/Stempniak and that Moore would be this team's third line centerman. Obviously a lot still needs to be done, but I just wanted to get out the notion that if Moore is a third line centerman, this team will have tons of troubles. I love Moore, but he wears down and doesn't keep up over long stretches when put into a bigger role.

On another note, on Stempniak, I guess why not? Last I saw him he was getting less and less minutes as he wasn't too effective on a fourth line against the Rangers. The Rangers, a team who isn't known for its offensive prowess. Makes you worry if this team goes up against PITT again in the playoffs. Two guys (Glass and Stempniak) who seemingly couldn't keep up with the Rangers now will be facing PITT's top lines. Ugh!

Regardless of who he plays with, the Rangers have a stellar d-corps and better overall defensive structure than Pittsburgh. That alone should calm people down. Pittsburgh' s first two lines were stacked. It's the bottom lines that struggled to produce. Can't always pin it all on one guy though. As for Glass, well...

 

[Fletch]

Regardless of who he plays with, the Rangers have a stellar d-corps and better overall defensive structure than Pittsburgh. That alone should calm people down. Pittsburgh' s first two lines were stacked. It's the bottom lines that struggled to produce. Can't always pin it all on one guy though. As for Glass, well...

not pinning it on one guy. The Rangers beat PITT because of Lundqvist, it's defense, it's system, and it's ability to roll four lines, with three producing and one stopping a top line. If you compare the four forward lines currently to last season's, I think at this moment they are inferior. All else may be equal with tweaks here and there. Richards-Stepan-Brassard-Moore is stronger than Stepan-Brassard-Moore-Lombardi. Could be stronger by a fair amount. A lot can change. I was just commenting on the Daily News' take on what the center position, and fourth line, may look like and surmised that if this team faced the Pens with that lineup, it wouldn't go as good the second time around as it did the first.

 

[Cake or Death]

The one thing I do not like about the signing, and it's only because I read this in a Daily News blurb announcing the signing, is that the assumption is that the fourth line is Glass/Lombardi/Stempniak and that Moore would be this team's third line centerman. Obviously a lot still needs to be done, but I just wanted to get out the notion that if Moore is a third line centerman, this team will have tons of troubles. I love Moore, but he wears down and doesn't keep up over long stretches when put into a bigger role.

On another note, on Stempniak, I guess why not? Last I saw him he was getting less and less minutes as he wasn't too effective on a fourth line against the Rangers. The Rangers, a team who isn't known for its offensive prowess. Makes you worry if this team goes up against PITT again in the playoffs. Two guys (Glass and Stempniak) who seemingly couldn't keep up with the Rangers now will be facing PITT's top lines. Ugh!

Yes, but Pitt also has one of the few goalies in NHL history capable of letting in two OT goals in one game. In looking at their off-season moves, the Pens honestly look like they got slightly worse to me. I am also still strongly of the mindset that we have the better team and would have beaten them more quickly this prior playoffs had we not had the horrific schedule the league handed us against the Pens.

 

[TheTakedown]

Yes, but Pitt also has one of the few goalies in NHL history capable of letting in two OT goals in one game. In looking at their off-season moves, the Pens honestly look like they got slightly worse to me. I am also still strongly of the mindset that we have the better team and would have beaten them more quickly this prior playoffs had we not had the horrific schedule the league handed us against the Pens.

yeah, Pens won't be a lock for #1 in the metro.. they'll be in the running, but nothing like last year

 

[Levitate]

July is too early to be worried about potential lineup projections by a newspaper. Rosters change through the year and guys get injured and trades happen and we're not even done with the offseason.

The one thing that having Moore on the third line would do is maybe help the other two top lines get more offensive zone starts and hopefully produce more offense. Richards soaked up a lot of offensive zone starts meaning Stepan and Brassard had to spend more time in the defensive zone. Moore should be a more capable center for starting in the defensive zone so hopefully that shift in deployment would be something that makes up for Richards' departure.

Assuming Boyle replaces or betters Richards' production on the power play, then 30 even strength points isn't an impossible task to replace.

I'd prefer a stronger option at 3c but it's not really as dire as people might be making it out to be.

As for Stempniak, good signing, always thought he was a solid player. Definitely feels like he has the tools to replace Pouliot's production if he can mesh with that line and I believe he can PK as well

 

[Fletch]

Yes, but Pitt also has one of the few goalies in NHL history capable of letting in two OT goals in one game. In looking at their off-season moves, the Pens honestly look like they got slightly worse to me. I am also still strongly of the mindset that we have the better team and would have beaten them more quickly this prior playoffs had we not had the horrific schedule the league handed us against the Pens.

the goalie is their downfall and was the only hope I held out in winning that series. Having said that, that goalie also has a Stanley Cup ring.

 

[Levitate]

the goalie is their downfall and was the only hope I held out in winning that series. Having said that, that goalie also has a Stanley Cup ring.

I don't reallllly think they lost to the Rangers because of Fleury. He didn't really win any games for them other than maybe game 3 or whatever. The Pens had issues with depth and have had them for a very long time, which is probably why they haven't been able to win another cup. Their bottom six has been really really freakin' bad over the past several years. Their moves this offseason might have helped that but we'll see

 

[Cake or Death]

the goalie is their downfall and was the only hope I held out in winning that series. Having said that, that goalie also has a Stanley Cup ring.

No doubt, but the same is true of Osgood, Niemi and Crawford. Great teams can do that. But this isn't close to the same Pitt team that Fleury won with.

 

[Fletch]

July is too early to be worried about potential lineup projections by a newspaper. Rosters change through the year and guys get injured and trades happen and we're not even done with the offseason.

The one thing that having Moore on the third line would do is maybe help the other two top lines get more offensive zone starts and hopefully produce more offense. Richards soaked up a lot of offensive zone starts meaning Stepan and Brassard had to spend more time in the defensive zone. Moore should be a more capable center for starting in the defensive zone so hopefully that shift in deployment would be something that makes up for Richards' departure.

Assuming Boyle replaces or betters Richards' production on the power play, then 30 even strength points isn't an impossible task to replace.

I'd prefer a stronger option at 3c but it's not really as dire as people might be making it out to be.

As for Stempniak, good signing, always thought he was a solid player. Definitely feels like he has the tools to replace Pouliot's production if he can mesh with that line and I believe he can PK as well

I agree, and have always stated I don't think this is the final lineup. Just commenting on that because...I'm a bit bored this morning (nobody came to work today to help me), I'm tired of talking about Glass and Nash and wanted to just throw an opinion out there.

 

[Fletch]

No doubt, but the same is true of Osgood, Niemi and Crawford. Great teams can do that. But this isn't close to the same Pitt team that Fleury won with.

Definitely not putting it on Fleury...just going back to their firepower and what it can do and why it would still frighten me.

 

[NYR Viper]

I'm confused. Why does Moore have to play on the 3rd line? Lombardi can play wing or center. They did the same thing with Boyle last year. AV likes to have 5 centers on the roster and in each game if possible. That way if someone takes a penalty or gets hurt he has some flexibility.

Nash-Stepan-MSL
Kreider-Brassard-MZA
Hagelin-Lindberg/Miller-Stempniak
Glass-Moore-Lombardi

Stempniak is actually a pretty good 2PP option. He can play the point as well which is a good thing. Hopefully it will decrease Girardi's TOI.

 

[Fletch]

I'm confused. Why does Moore have to play on the 3rd line? Lombardi can play wing or center. They did the same thing with Boyle last year. AV likes to have 5 centers on the roster and in each game if possible. That way if someone takes a penalty or gets hurt he has some flexibility.

Nash-Stepan-MSL
Kreider-Brassard-MZA
Hagelin-Lindberg/Miller-Stempniak
Glass-Moore-Lombardi

Stempniak is actually a pretty good 2PP option. He can play the point as well which is a good thing. Hopefully it will decrease Girardi's TOI.

I know it's early for lines, but wouldn't you want to try to keep guys together who were successful with each other and know each other? Kreider-Stepan-Nash, Hag-MSL, Brass-MZA?

 

[Tawnos]

I know it's early for lines, but wouldn't you want to try to keep guys together who were successful with each other and know each other? Kreider-Stepan-Nash, Hag-MSL, Brass-MZA?

I wouldn't consider Hagelin-MSL to be a particularly successful combination. And Kreider-Stepan should remain together, in my opinion, but Nash is more easily parted from that trio.

 

[FJB]

I love this signing! He's good for about 30 points a year and the cap hit is fantastic.

 

[NYR Viper]

I know it's early for lines, but wouldn't you want to try to keep guys together who were successful with each other and know each other? Kreider-Stepan-Nash, Hag-MSL, Brass-MZA?

I don't believe the Kreider-Stepan-Nash was consistently dominant. Brass-MZA need to stay together. Find duo's that work well.

 

[Fletch]

I don't believe the Kreider-Stepan-Nash was consistently dominant. Brass-MZA need to stay together. Find duo's that work well.

definitely not consistently dominant. Just thinking it deserves a chance to begin the season.

 

[RangerBoy]

Stempniak can play both sides. Right handed shooting winger. NHLPA.com confirmed the $900,000 salary. Not much downside.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Lots depends on what happens in camp, which kids push ahead of the others, etc. (Not to mention any trades), but I agree with the point about keeping together successful duos. Had Pouliot remained with the team, that would have been the only full line I'd want to see maintained.

MZA-Brassard should stay together.

Kreider should play with either Stepan or Miller (both of whom he's displayed chemistry with).

Honestly, we're still looking for the centerman who can have that kind of chemistry with Nash. Perhaps he'd be better served on Step's left wing since Step is a RH centerman? If he stays on the right side, you don't want to disrupt the MZA-Brassard pairing, so maybe he plays with whichever of Miller/Lindberg/Lombardi winds up in the "3rd" C role?

Nash-Stepan-MSL
Hagelin-Brassard-MZA
Kreider-Miller/Lindberg-Stempniak
Glass-Moore-Lombardi

Kreider-Stepan-MSL
Hagelin-Brassard-MZA
Stempniak-Miller/Lindberg-Nash
Glass-Moore-Lombardi

That first unit makes more sense in terms of traditional thinking about a "true" first line and would ensure that lines 2-4 matched up against other teams' non-shutdown lines and 2nd/3rddefensive pairs. The second option distributes both scoring and defensive acumen (with Stepan on one line, Hagelin on another and Nash/Stempniak on a third). Nash would seem to have too little ice time, but perhaps you even it out with boatloads of PP & PK?

It's an interesting conundrum.

 

[Emptyvoid]

Nash creates a lot of his own chances... I don't think it's essential for him to be paired with Stepan. I'd rather see Kreider on Stepan's wing than Nash imo.

Edit: Had a brainfart and forgot that Nash plays RW usually for us.

Kreider-Stepan-MSL
Stemp/Hags-Brassard-Zucc
Stemp/Hags-Miller-Nash
Lombardi-Moore-Glass/Carbomb (if signed)/etc

Would be my ideal lineup currently.

 

[THE BIG WHISTLE]

Lots depends on what happens in camp, which kids push ahead of the others, etc. (Not to mention any trades), but I agree with the point about keeping together successful duos. Had Pouliot remained with the team, that would have been the only full line I'd want to see maintained.

MZA-Brassard should stay together.

Kreider should play with either Stepan or Miller (both of whom he's displayed chemistry with).

Honestly, we're still looking for the centerman who can have that kind of chemistry with Nash. Perhaps he'd be better served on Step's left wing since Step is a RH centerman? If he stays on the right side, you don't want to disrupt the MZA-Brassard pairing, so maybe he plays with whichever of Miller/Lindberg/Lombardi winds up in the "3rd" C role?

Nash-Stepan-MSL
Hagelin-Brassard-MZA
Kreider-Miller/Lindberg-Stempniak
Glass-Moore-Lombardi

Kreider-Stepan-MSL
Hagelin-Brassard-MZA
Stempniak-Miller/Lindberg-Nash
Glass-Moore-Lombardi

That first unit makes more sense in terms of traditional thinking about a "true" first line and would ensure that lines 2-4 matched up against other teams' non-shutdown lines and 2nd/3rddefensive pairs. The second option distributes both scoring and defensive acumen (with Stepan on one line, Hagelin on another and Nash/Stempniak on a third). Nash would seem to have too little ice time, but perhaps you even it out with boatloads of PP & PK?

It's an interesting conundrum.

I like the 2nd unit except I would swap Hags and Stempniak

 

[TheTakedown]

I like the 2nd unit except I would swap Hags and Stempniak

I agree... the second set of lines is very nice... would definitelky keep Kreider on Steps wing, and put MSL in Nash's spot...

Nash can then slide into ANY of the other lines and not be out of place.

You can do Nash-Brass-Zucc which would not only up the defensive capabilities on that line, however Nash would be a better finisher than someone like Poo or Stemp

Hagelin-Miller-Stemp is a huge Question mark....

Glass-Moore-Lombardi is very formidible