Confirmed with Link: Rangers sign Blake Wheeler [1Y/800K]

[PuckLuck3043]

Name 10 slower skating teams

Again I don't rank them and focus purely on that like you do. I just know when I watch games they don't look overmatched from a skating perspective in most games, otherwise they probably wouldn't have had 110 and 107 point consecutive seasons because those teams under Gallant didn't seem to have much structure or a plan yet they managed to put up some really good seasons. The only time I thought they were overmatched from a speed perspective was last year against the Devils who are one of the fastest in the league.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Id be okay listing Mika as above average. Speed is not the only thing. Speed will not guarantee a win but no speed will make it much harder.

How many are clearly below average and that doesn't mean speed skating in a straight line. It means having good edges as well.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Again I don't rank them and focus purely on that like you do. I just know when I watch games they don't look overmatched from a skating perspective in most games, otherwise they probably wouldn't have had 110 and 107 point consecutive seasons because those teams under Gallant didn't seem to have much structure or a plan yet they managed to put up some really good seasons. The only time I thought they were overmatched from a speed perspective was last year against the Devils who are one of the fastest in the league.

Maybe I'm just harsher on my own team than I am on other teams, but honestly watching us looks like I'm watching a different era than the rest of the league. I think we are by far the slowest team in the league, we look straight out of the late 90's/early 00's compared to the high flying uptempo teams of today. I can only laugh when people say we're such a skilled team playing pond hockey, focusing too much on playing pretty hockey. I think we play the ugliest, most caveman like style of hockey in the league

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Maybe I'm just harsher on my own team than I am on other teams, but honestly watching us looks like I'm watching a different era than the rest of the league. I think we are by far the slowest team in the league, we look straight out of the late 90's/early 00's compared to the high flying uptempo teams of today. I can only laugh when people say we're such a skilled team playing pond hockey, focusing too much on playing pretty hockey. I think we play the ugliest, most caveman like style of hockey in the league

Not maybe, you are always negative. All I care about is wins and they have had more of them than 3/4 of the league the last 2 years. There are plenty of teams that are technically faster but are also bottom feeders. Maybe under Lavy they will be more entertaining than under your buddy Gallant.

 

[NickyFotiu]

How many are clearly below average and that doesn't mean speed skating in a straight line. It means having good edges as well.

Im definitely not all about straight line speed. CK has that but speed rarely is a factor in his game. Meanwhile Hughes with his quick first 2 strides uses his speed most shifts.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Not maybe, you are always negative. All I care about is wins and they have had more of them than 3/4 of the league the last 2 years. There are plenty of teams that are technically faster but are also bottom feeders. Maybe under Lavy they will be more entertaining than under your buddy Gallant.

It's true but at the end of the day hockey is entertainment. Of course winning is the most important thing but if hockey were always painfully boring none of us would be watching it in the first place to even care about winning. I had more fun watching us in those Quinn seasons because I think they put a better product on the ice even if they were more raw and less polished, less successful than the latest iteration of our team. I know I care more about flash than most guys, if I were a GM I'd be putting together a high flying exciting team and maybe they wouldn't do that great lol. But I just wish for once we had someone with elite skating who's legitimately fun to watch. It's crazy that we luck into back to back 1st & 2nd overall picks, both of whos greatest weakness is their skating. And we luck into a perennial Norris candidate forcing his way here, whos greatest weakness is also his skating.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

It's true but at the end of the day hockey is entertainment. Of course winning is the most important thing but if hockey were always painfully boring none of us would be watching it in the first place to even care about winning. I had more fun watching us in those Quinn seasons because I think they put a better product on the ice even if they were more raw and less polished, less successful than the latest iteration of our team. I know I care more about flash than most guys, if I were a GM I'd be putting together a high flying exciting team and maybe they wouldn't do that great lol. But I just wish for once we had someone with elite skating who's legitimately fun to watch. It's crazy that we luck into back to back 1st & 2nd overall picks, both of whos greatest weakness is their skating. And we luck into a perennial Norris candidate forcing his way here, whos greatest weakness is also his skating.

Wins is entertaining to me not who can do the Michigan. I'm sure the Ducks are entertaining but they suck and are a joke defensively.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I wonder if anyone actually cares about playing in MSG rather than liking being in midtown Manhattan briefly.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Maybe Mika., Like I said overall its an average skating team IMO. I don't get too worked up about it either like it's the only thing that matters. If it was Julien Gauthier would be an all star and guys like Fox and Robertson of Dallas would be scrubs.

I like your optimism overall and I'm getting tired of the alarmist "wah this team is slow" posts but pet peeve of mine is how for some reason in the US "average" is a euphemism for poor. Those are not the same things.

It's true but at the end of the day hockey is entertainment. Of course winning is the most important thing but if hockey were always painfully boring none of us would be watching it in the first place to even care about winning. I had more fun watching us in those Quinn seasons because I think they put a better product on the ice even if they were more raw and less polished, less successful than the latest iteration of our team. I know I care more about flash than most guys, if I were a GM I'd be putting together a high flying exciting team and maybe they wouldn't do that great lol. But I just wish for once we had someone with elite skating who's legitimately fun to watch. It's crazy that we luck into back to back 1st & 2nd overall picks, both of whos greatest weakness is their skating. And we luck into a perennial Norris candidate forcing his way here, whos greatest weakness is also his skating.

Look I didn't love that 11-12 team as much as others because it was so boring but you take it to a different level. The Quinn teams weren't just not as good as the last two Rangers teams they were plain bad. If you're going to follow a competition wouldn't you care about who won it? Otherwise why not just stick to movies if all you want is entertainment?

 

[EdJovanovski]

I like your optimism overall and I'm getting tired of the alarmist "wah this team is slow" posts but pet peeve of mine is how for some reason in the US "average" is a euphemism for poor. Those are not the same things.



Look I didn't love that 11-12 team as much as others because it was so boring but you take it to a different level. The Quinn teams weren't just not as good as the last two Rangers teams they were plain bad. If you're going to follow a competition wouldn't you care about who won it? Otherwise why not just stick to movies if all you want is entertainment?

Was it really that bad? We were the youngest team in the league coming into our own. Panarin had that Hart caliber season. Mika broke out and paced for 60 goals 110pts. Fox blossomed before our eyes. Buchnevich too. Tony D was dancing on the blueline and the most dominant PPQB in the league. That 3v3 OT line of Mika Bread & Tony was unstoppable. We had Lemieux stirring shit with everybody. For all its warts, that was a hell of a fun team to watch. I think they have to go through that process regardless of who their coach is to blossom into a contender. I feel like we were on our way to being similar to New Jersey and they were a bottom feeder for a long while too.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

I like your optimism overall and I'm getting tired of the alarmist "wah this team is slow" posts but pet peeve of mine is how for some reason in the US "average" is a euphemism for poor. Those are not the same things.



Look I didn't love that 11-12 team as much as others because it was so boring but you take it to a different level. The Quinn teams weren't just not as good as the last two Rangers teams they were plain bad. If you're going to follow a competition wouldn't you care about who won it? Otherwise why not just stick to movies if all you want is entertainment?

No they aren't the same things at all but a lot of people sure do think that they are. Also once a narrative takes hold it's very hard to change.

 

[RangersFan1994]

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Was it really that bad? We were the youngest team in the league coming into our own. Panarin had that Hart caliber season. Mika broke out and paced for 60 goals 110pts. Fox blossomed before our eyes. Buchnevich too. Tony D was dancing on the blueline and the most dominant PPQB in the league. That 3v3 OT line of Mika Bread & Tony was unstoppable. We had Lemieux stirring shit with everybody. For all its warts, that was a hell of a fun team to watch. I think they have to go through that process regardless of who their coach is to blossom into a contender. I feel like we were on our way to being similar to New Jersey and they were a bottom feeder for a long while too.

We don't know what they would have become with Quinn as coach we do know those teams either missed the playoffs or made the play in and got embarrassed. The fact that you think a team that was actually good sucks and complain about them all the time but think a team that sucked was amazing is mind boggling. If all you're looking for is entertainment and not winning there's Hollywood movies.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Was it really that bad? We were the youngest team in the league coming into our own. Panarin had that Hart caliber season. Mika broke out and paced for 60 goals 110pts. Fox blossomed before our eyes. Buchnevich too. Tony D was dancing on the blueline and the most dominant PPQB in the league. That 3v3 OT line of Mika Bread & Tony was unstoppable. We had Lemieux stirring shit with everybody. For all its warts, that was a hell of a fun team to watch. I think they have to go through that process regardless of who their coach is to blossom into a contender. I feel like we were on our way to being similar to New Jersey and they were a bottom feeder for a long while too.

They were a good team for like 2 months under Quinn and they weren't even THAT good.

Lemieux was/is a clown and he sucks at hockey. Panarin would have had that season under pretty much any coach, he was a legitimate wagon. However, that team was the ultimate fools gold led by an MVP caliber season from a player who is no longer even close to being that player and Mika Zibanejad basically scoring on every shot he took from January until Covid happened. Yes they had contributions from other guys (DeAngelo as you mentioned, Fox basically being amazing from December onwards and Igor breaking in) but it was heavily driven by 2 guys - It's not a surprise that they "looked better" - This is what happens when your best players play to their full potential.

Had the Rangers gotten THAT Panarin during the 2022 playoffs instead of what they actually got, they at least get to the final and probably carve up what ever schmuck Colorado decided to throw out there with Igor doing enough. Mika and Igor certainly held up their end during that run.

You left out the part where they completely shat the bed in the bubble which was really the beginning of the end for Quinn. Tony D who was "the most dominant PPQB" in the league (He wasn't, his 5v5 production that season how ever gets glossed over) was so terribly mis-managed by Quinn the next season (yeah Tony's gotta control his shit, but a coach should know better than to throw gasoline onto something that is already burning) and the team was just flat for almost the entire year. Most of all, he lost the respect of most of his veteran players, including your boy Panarin.

Long story short - David Quinn sucked balls and coaching is mostly overrated. If you have good players who play well, you'll generally be pretty good. In game adjustments and accountability are a thing though and thats one thing that has been lacking with each of our last 3 coaches. In regards to those 2 things, Quinn may have been the worst.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

No they aren't the same things at all but a lot of people sure do think that they are. Also once a narrative takes hold it's very hard to change.

I was making a different point that you were using it interchangeably.

 

[EdJovanovski]

They were a good team for like 2 months under Quinn and they weren't even THAT good.

Lemieux was/is a clown and he sucks at hockey. Panarin would have had that season under pretty much any coach, he was a legitimate wagon. However, that team was the ultimate fools gold led by an MVP caliber season from a player who is no longer even close to being that player and Mika Zibanejad basically scoring on every shot he took from January until Covid happened. Yes they had contributions from other guys (DeAngelo as you mentioned, Fox basically being amazing from December onwards and Igor breaking in) but it was heavily driven by 2 guys - It's not a surprise that they "looked better" - This is what happens when your best players play to their full potential.

Had the Rangers gotten THAT Panarin during the 2022 playoffs instead of what they actually got, they at least get to the final and probably carve up what ever schmuck Colorado decided to throw out there with Igor doing enough. Mika and Igor certainly held up their end during that run.

You left out the part where they completely shat the bed in the bubble which was really the beginning of the end for Quinn. Tony D who was "the most dominant PPQB" in the league (He wasn't, his 5v5 production that season how ever gets glossed over) was so terribly mis-managed by Quinn the next season (yeah Tony's gotta control his shit, but a coach should know better than to throw gasoline onto something that is already burning) and the team was just flat for almost the entire year. Most of all, he lost the respect of most of his veteran players, including your boy Panarin.

Long story short - David Quinn sucked balls and coaching is mostly overrated. If you have good players who play well, you'll generally be pretty good. In game adjustments and accountability are a thing though and thats one thing that has been lacking with each of our last 3 coaches. In regards to those 2 things, Quinn may have been the worst.

I don’t agree with everything here but you earned a like because it’s a well thought out post. I’m not arguing Quinn was a great coach or that he was the primary reason behind that team being more exciting, but several of our guys did have their best seasons under him. I did like the construction of that team better, obviously it was a younger and less polished team who got worse results. But I think they had an identity, they were a riverboat gambler style team, and were raved about by fans all across the league that we were the most exciting up & coming team in hockey. Today it just seems their identity is load up on as many washed up big name players as possible (Kane, Tarasenko, Wheeler) even if they don’t fit what the teams needs are (speed, forecheckers, puck moving dman).

It just seems there isn’t much of a plan. Like how we played shorthanded several games because Drury didn’t have the forethought regarding adding Kane at the deadline. I think if we kept with the identity of that 2019-20 team we would’ve evolved into something special. I get you don’t like Lemieux but guys like him and DeAngelo had a lot more swagger, edge, etc to them than much of our team today. I remember watching Tony go on a shootout when I believe he was something crazy like 6/6 in his career, he just had this laser focused expression on his face and you knew he knew he was going to score. So many times our team seems uninterested even in the playoffs, like they were okay with losing. Someone like Tony would get absolutely pissed and would play like he gave a shit even if that meant lashing out or dropping the gloves. That team was a lot of fun especially with Igor coming in and putting up insane numbers as a rookie call up. So many storylines that season.

I think when evaluating prospects or teams you want that elite gamebreaking talent and then you reel it in and get it under control and polish it where it’s rough around the edges. I think that 19-20 team was a high octane team that could’ve been one of the best in the league after a few years of polishing it up, a prototypical modern hockey team.

 

[egelband]

I agree in the vacuum it's a good move but sometimes even adding a better player who is a bad fit makes the team worse. I have a nagging suspicion that this might be one of those moves that just doesn't work. Adding older veterans seems to increase the likelihood of this outcome in general.

I would probably be surprised with 50-60 points, just because I don't see him as a top liner. Or at least I hope not.

If he's a middle sixer, maybe even lower-end middle sixer if Laf plays RW in the top 6, which I would hope he is, then I think Wheeler's numbers would be lower based on usage and deployment.

Unless it's just an all-time offensive output explosion from the team, but that seems unlikely. I'm hoping it's Kakko and Lafreniere and Chytil who are at 60 points, not Wheeler.

You’re right about ‘fit’ but that is pretty much impossible to predict. That’s why I generally leave that to the pros. We just can’t know how guys will mesh.

 

[Jauffre]

... It's crazy that we luck into back to back 1st & 2nd overall picks, both of whos greatest weakness is their skating. And we luck into a perennial Norris candidate forcing his way here, whos greatest weakness is also his skating.

That hits too hard and too deep. Just bad luck.

We also lucked into Panarin taking less $ to come to NYC. But we knew his skating overall (not top speed) was on par with some of the best. The way he skated was electric in 19-20 and most of the following year. Then that part of his game kind of died and he became more of a perimeter player/PP specialist. Maybe it's simply because the transition game was very weak (non existent) under Gallant. The spacing was always terrible on odd-man rushes and barely anyone moved the puck at the appropriate time. That's assuming the D could actually get the transition going, which was rare.

Not to shit on Panarin lol I know he's your boy. Hopefully the entire teams plays a fast game under Laviolette.

On topic: Hurray Blake Wheeler @ 800K, yay. He's always had pretty good speed. But at 37 years old... could easily be a concern. Still a very good signing obviously. What have Jets' fans been saying of play last year?

 

[NickyFotiu]

Im hoping Wheelers work ethic will rub off on a few of our players.

 

[will1066]

MSG is showing the replay of Flames at the Garden, and Chytil got up to 22 mph on the tracker when scoring on his breakaway.

 

[NickyFotiu]

MSG is showing the replay of Flames at the Garden, and Chytil got up to 22 mph on the tracker when scoring on his breakaway.

He is one of our 3 with above average speed along with CK and KAM imo.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don’t agree with everything here but you earned a like because it’s a well thought out post. I’m not arguing Quinn was a great coach or that he was the primary reason behind that team being more exciting, but several of our guys did have their best seasons under him. I did like the construction of that team better, obviously it was a younger and less polished team who got worse results. But I think they had an identity, they were a riverboat gambler style team, and were raved about by fans all across the league that we were the most exciting up & coming team in hockey. Today it just seems their identity is load up on as many washed up big name players as possible (Kane, Tarasenko, Wheeler) even if they don’t fit what the teams needs are (speed, forecheckers, puck moving dman).

It just seems there isn’t much of a plan. Like how we played shorthanded several games because Drury didn’t have the forethought regarding adding Kane at the deadline. I think if we kept with the identity of that 2019-20 team we would’ve evolved into something special. I get you don’t like Lemieux but guys like him and DeAngelo had a lot more swagger, edge, etc to them than much of our team today. I remember watching Tony go on a shootout when I believe he was something crazy like 6/6 in his career, he just had this laser focused expression on his face and you knew he knew he was going to score. So many times our team seems uninterested even in the playoffs, like they were okay with losing. Someone like Tony would get absolutely pissed and would play like he gave a shit even if that meant lashing out or dropping the gloves. That team was a lot of fun especially with Igor coming in and putting up insane numbers as a rookie call up. So many storylines that season.

I think when evaluating prospects or teams you want that elite gamebreaking talent and then you reel it in and get it under control and polish it where it’s rough around the edges. I think that 19-20 team was a high octane team that could’ve been one of the best in the league after a few years of polishing it up, a prototypical modern hockey team.

I don't think you can really give Quinn credit or career seasons, especially after you see how his last season (half season, what ever you want to call it) went for him. David Quinn did not unlock some hidden ability in Zibanejad that allowed him to shoot 69% for 25 games.

I'll say this, I thought he did a good job handling the defensemen here. His handling of Fox/Lindgren was terrific. He completely bungled a bunch of shit in his last year - DeAngelo, the goalie carousel instead of trying to get Igor in a groove, leaving Zibanejad untouched in his spot even though he was struggling with Covid recovery, not dropping Kreider in the lineup until basically the 2nd to last week of the season despite him struggling from the jump, etc. This team did not have ANY swagger, they were as lifeless as a team could really be and it was a direct carry over from what we saw from practically the same group in the bubble. FWIW, both DeAngelo AND Lemieux were moved (or primed to be moved) under the last GM. I don't think you can really say that people on the team right now don't care either. DeAngelo slammed a penalty box door, Trouba threw a helmet, this doesn't mean that they care any more or less than other players.

I don't think there is a lack of direction right now at least. I think that was kind of true of the deadline (and the Kane situation is one that was mandated by the owner, he let that be known publicly) but the FO seems pretty committed to checking every box they can this offseason. I'm not a fan of the Lavi hire, but he's coming with 2 assistants with player development backgrounds and another who ran one of the most prolific transition based group of defensemen we've seen in the last decade (Nashville.)

With limited cap space, they've gone out and added a bunch of depth to add layers between the team and the Leshitshows of the world, a top 9 RW (where they needed a body) and an underrated PMD. These were all needs and have been addressed to some level, way more than I expected them to be addressed before UFA period started. They're very limited in what they can do and a big part of that is because the previous GM handed out 2 really fat contracts that are hurting them right now. All things considered, there is clearly a plan/vision for next year and I don't see how anyone can argue against that.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I think Wheeler is going to surprise a lot of people here who probably haven't watched much of him throughout his career. He's still a good player but some of the talk around him I think people are expecting a completely washed and monumentally slow player simply because of his age and the narrative. He's good and adding a guy like him as a depth scorer is going to be huge.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think Wheeler is going to surprise a lot of people here who probably haven't watched much of him throughout his career. He's still a good player.

The fact that he's only making at maximum, 1.1 million will help him.

 

[will1066]

He is one of our 3 with above average speed along with CK and KAM imo.

What is elite from a metrics standpoint? Serious question. If Chytil can hit 22 mph, I reckon the fastest skaters in the league are 25 and up.