Rangers Season Tickets Holders: Part XII
- Thread starter patnyrnyg
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But what a giant PITA it was.Yes, I figured all that already but was hoping that someone had a different idea that worked for them. Thanks for your reply.
GordonGecko
First Ping Pong Ball
NYRFAN218
King
I feel like StubHub's been extra aggressive in destroying sellers with fees in situations like this of late too at least in experiences with people I know.
trueblue9441
Registered User
not necessarily - if you find PAH's or direct transfers they'll work with you too - if you want, PM me and I'll help out. SH and Vivid have always been very helpful with me as long as you get out ahead of the problem and let them know. I've had this same issue happen once or twice as well.
just as a heads up - i had a sale for mumford and sons next week at MSG - in hand date was set to today but tickets arent released until 72 hours before - i called in and they changed the in hand date no problem. they are plenty flexible if you get out a head and let them know.
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Exactly. They used that in their sales pitch for years. Now, they want to limit it, because the market has bottomed out. They need to accept they cannot get every chip in the casino. Secondly, the secondary market is different than the primary market. They use secondary priced to justify raising the primary, however fail to differentiate "Supply and demand" from "Quantity Supplied and Quantity Demanded". Just because 200 tickets at a given price point sell at double face value, it does not mean EVERY ticket at that price point (or all price points) would sell for double face value.
And on top of them using secondary market prices from the previous season to set primary market prices this season, they also want to limit what you can actually sell your ticket for (on the "official" exchange anyway). So when they charge you $225 for a single ticket for a holiday weekend day game, you cannot sell it through the official exchange for market price, because they don't want your discounted re-sale ticket competing with their primary ticket sales. The teams don't want you to sell your ticket at such a price that single-game buyers are trained to learn that tickets can be had for less than face value.
MSG kept prices unchanged in the rebuilding year.
My view (perhaps extreme but I believe it) is that Once the team turns the corner, MSG will raise prices until they eliminate any profit that can be made by a subscriber.
The goal is to let the subscriber break even and nothing more. Sure, maybe if the team becomes a hot tix then there will be some gain until MSG catches up to market prices. The end game is to take the best seats back and sell 2nd tier seats to subscribers. Any profit made by subscribers is a lost opportunity cost for MSG.
Discuss.
I'm not so sure. Prices for rangers tickets have been increasing relative to Knicks tickets for a while. Assuming the rangers turn the corner before the knicks, there's a practical limit to how different the prices can get.
NYRFAN218
King
Aren’t we pretty much at the point where subscribers can’t make any money on their tickets? Minus the 400’s and very select areas in the 200’s, chances are you’re only breaking even at best.
Well, prices went down only once, when Dolan made the statement on the radio that if the Rangers failed to make the playoffs, tickets prices would drop 10%. That season, the Rangers didn't make the playoffs, and my old greens dropped from $40 to $36.
In recent times, the Garden doesn't raise prices if a team fails to make the playoffs. The Knicks haven't made the playoffs in forever. The Rangers have missed just this past season. This is the reason why Rangers ticket prices have gone up relative to Knicks prices. However, the Garden has found other ways to raise the revenue generated by selling tickets, and that is busting up unrenewed fulls and selling them as higher priced partials.
The demand is not there. I have never seen the Rangers advertise tickets as aggressively (across multiple platforms) as they have been in recent months, which tells you something... They are having trouble selling them.
I have Knicks seats in the bridges. Very easy to sell games there but the same seats for the rangers cost 50% more. At least in that area there no room for the rangers to increase prices but hard to see the Knicks raising prices when they continue to suck.
The Rangers have room to raise prices if you can sell your seats at a profit. They value each seat based on actual selling prices.
If you have trouble moving tix at face then they have no incentive to bump the face.
Yes, they want every dime they can get. I can't blame them as they are in business to make money. However, they do not see or refuse to acknowledge the big picture.
They have the data on secondary sales through ticketmaster, and likely have someone feeding them info from other sites like Stubhub, Vivid, etc. A seat with a face of $80 sells for $150 and they are thinking they left $70 on the table. However, what they won't accept is that just because 1 or 10 or even 100 sell for that kind of a mark-up, it does not mean every ticket will do the same. When they price the ticket where there is no meat left on the bone for the reseller, they are hurting themselves. They are now driving out the legit brokers, the wanna-be brokers, and the fan who can't afford to go to every game and needs to either sell for face or in some cases pays more than they can afford with the expectation they will sell a few games for a profit and off-set their costs. The higher MSG sets prices, the more fans you have posting on the secondary market, you now have an increase quantity supplied and a decreased quantity demanded at those prices. It is the same thing the Yankees did and the Rangers did not learn from it.
There is no urgency from the buyer to buy tickets. I remember in the mid-90s, going to ticketmaster first in Merrick and then in Rockville Center the day tickets went on sale before I had season tickets. I would wake up at 4 am, go to a 24-hour deli near my house to get breakfast, bring a chair and sit outside, be first online and wait for them to open. Season would be sold out within an hour or 2. That doesn't happen anymore. Yes, I know technology is a part of it, but even when internet sales first started becoming a thing, you had to be on ticketdisaster when they went on sale or you were not getting tickets. A few weeks ago, a woman with whom I work, dont know her that well came to me and said, "Someone told me you have Rangers season tickets, is that true?" I confirmed and she told me how she and her son were huge fans and asked if I ever sell games. I said i do, but I have a few regulars, blah blah blah and I didn't have anything for sale now. Since she has been telling me about how she has been looking at prices and watching them drop as they get closer to game time, so she might just head into the city with him for a game and just wait until they are ready to walk in to buy tickets on her phone. This woman is NOT savy enough to think of this on her own, so someone put the idea in her head and I am willing to be, she is not the only person thinking along these lines. I am hearing it more and more from people. I just don't understand how this can be good for business and why MSG thinks it is a good idea to offer some free cheesie hat as a gift for buying a 5-game plan in a ridiculously overprice seat.
If they think they are going to drive out season ticket holders and instead sell more overprice mini-plans, individual game tickets, and to tourists, then they need to take a look at what has happened to the Mets and their tickets. Yes, I know double the games and more than double the capacity, 10-game homestands over 10 days, weather issues. Someday they will wake up and realize a strong secondary market is good for their primary market. Leaving some profit on the table is healthy long-term.
I don’t get to New York as often as I used to and that’s a big reason. Have kept seasons largely to make sure I could always get playoff tickets. Resales have gotten more challenging through the years but this is the first year I have taken a real haircut. I’ll wait until March to see where my numbers net out but right now I’m 40/60 against renewing.
GordonGecko
First Ping Pong Ball
Big part of the that is the "all for one" program that is whatever is called now. It used to be a vehicle for them to move unsold single seats in bad locations. Now you can get any number of tickets anywhere at a big discount for pretty much any game. All the actual priced out fans that still go now only use that last minute offer or they wait for the stubhub market to implode on the day of the game. Corps and tourists are the only advance buyers left
So basically it’s in MSG’s interest for you to sell something at a higher price than they sell it for? I think that’s the crux of your argument. Or are you also saying there’s a benefit to having a larger season subscriber base? I don’t see that as in their interest either. At the end of the day, you and I and a ton of other people, will still be Rangers fans willing to pony up money for tickets. It s*cks for you this year since you’re having to take less than face, but you weren’t complaining a few years ago when you were able to sell premium games at 2-3x what you paid. This environment has been great for me and a several others including your coworker who can now go to games at a more affordable price. And when the team turns it around, the tables will turn and you will get your premium again. In the long run, the market works.
There is no right for season subscribers to earn back the money they paid. And honestly if you think MSG is screwing you, there’s the very simple solution of not renewing.
A large season subscriber base, with a substantial majority of tickets sold, stabilizes the revenue stream. Ski resorts now follow this model, offering multi-mountain passes at a discount up front (compared to window rates and even advanced lift ticket rates) to smooth out the valleys, and ensure they're solvent in the event of a bad season (snow-wise.) They know more money is made once the skier is at the resort. Same for a sports team. If your season is sold out, you need not worry about selling single-game tickets to a last place team.
As you write, the success of the team on the ice will dictate the performance of the resale market, especially today since tickets are very expensive. When the Rangers contend again, no seller should be complaining.
I am not looking to turn a profit or even benefit from re-sale. I have a core of 3 people who buy anywhere from 5-10 games from me. They pay me face value. But, they are getting to the point where they are not going to keep taking tickets with another increase. That happens, and I am out as a sth.
You are missing the point I am making. If they set the price so there is no money to be made, then they are going to lose customers. People will cancel their accounts. You can say that if I cancel my tickets there will be someone else to buy them. This is true. However, if thousands of people start canceling, that is going to be a different issue. Yes, there is a benefit to a large season ticket holder base. How are the Mets doing without a large season ticket base? They call me constantly asking me to buy plans. How about the Islanders and Devils? So yes, it is in their best interest to leave some profit on the table.
I am not saying there is a "right" for a sth to make back their money. MSG uses resale ability as part of their sales pitch, if people find they cannot resell, than MSG risks losing a paying customer. I can tell you, if I ever cancel my season tickets, I am not going to turn around and buy a mini-plan or individual tickets. I'll just watch on tv, stop going, maybe take a road trip or two.
I've noticed similar push-back from those who have bought from me in the past, especially when I show them the 11-tier pricing that Garden has gone with. I don't have the time to go to as many games as I used to, and they've become expensive that even people in the office push back when I offer at face, because they know the market will fall out as game-day approaches, and they'll get in at a better price than I can offer. And it becomes one of those uncomfortable areas when the market reveals itself. "Sorry not interested" is the response when they know they can get same or better seats at a lower price later.. I don't blame them.
I don't have tickets to re-sell, but I would like to sell those I cannot use.
Younger fans are aware of the resale market, and will make use of it when resale tickets are priced lower than STH face tickets which are priced lower than single game primary tickets. Once you can buy the games you want on the secondary market at less cost than fulls (less your resales) you need to ask yourself why you are buying fulls in the first place. Now, when the worm turns, and people begin to drop subscriptions in earnest, what is the Garden going to do? The market is changing, and they are still at Cheese Station C. Everyone else is enjoying New Cheese.
When I was selling tix I had one rule. I always wanted to be the among the lowest sellers. Thus, what I paid never mattered. I always knew the relative value of my tix. I was in row 2 center. I had to be priced a decent amount lower than row 1 and no more than $40 higher than the 12 rows behind me. I was pricing 2/3 the amount that just off center downstairs was charging. My point, I almost never had tix to sell in the final week before he game. I probably left money on the table but i was never pressured to make a sale.
I was thinking about the selling aspect a week ago when I saw a row 1 center seller (upstairs) sell a pair of tix on Sunday Dec 23 against the Flyers for $199.00. Sure, he was very low at the time (probably couldn't use them) but will his sale might look good in a week or so?
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