Prospect Info: Rangers ranked #1 by The Athletic

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Breaking News: Rangers farm rates number 1 best in the league...Keane too high, fans still pissed

 

[Trxjw]

Yeah, and the odd thing is there seem to be folks on both sides who are kind of insisting that people take an extreme stand on him: either "he's a bust" – or "he's still a baby and how can you make any definitive statements about him?"

Why can't we just leave it as "would've liked to have seen more to this point, but he still has time to figure it out"?

"Pick a side!" The tag line for modern society.

You're 100% right though. Prospect evaluation is incredibly nuanced but as soon as you tack on a high draft slot it's suddenly one extreme or the other.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I think people fall into the trap of judging speed by how fast a player goes in a straight line, or how fast they "appear" to be going.

Totally agree.

Kovalev comes to mind here. Didn't have blazing speed but had terrific edgework. Jagr was another guy who was a great skater but didn't have that extra gear like a Bure or McDavid.

Grabner is lightning fast but you don't really see his speed outside of breakaways. Kakko doesn't have that straight away speed, but he's a good enough skater to create separation with the puck, or stay with his man on defensive assignments.

He's a bust for a #7 pick because he doesn't appear to have elite talent. He is a mediocre skater with average hands. Not necessarily a bust relative to a decent NHL career. 3C seems to be his realistic best result.

How many elite players in the history of the NHL were drafted 7th overall? He's a 20 year old kid with limited NHL experience so we don't really know what his upside is yet. Let the kid develop before throwing dumb labels around.

 

[Edge]

He's a bust for a #7 pick because he doesn't appear to have elite talent. He is a mediocre skater with average hands. Not necessarily a bust relative to a decent NHL career. 3C seems to be his realistic best result.

Whether someone loved the pick, or loathed the pick, if the expectation was for Andersson or any of the other options on the board at #7 in 2017 to become an elite talent, disappointment was a near certainty.

 

[Rempe73]

Disagree with his ranking of Keane, but agree with the Jones ranking (though I’d like to see him above Keane). Pronman is weird but I understand his style and what he likes. But damn, imagine having a guy like Miller as your 5th best prospect. 5th! I’m not even angry about it. Our depth is just that good.

 

[CasusBelli]

I really don't get the Sean Day love. He's way down my list of prospects. Yes he's big and he skates and handles the puck real well but he's not nearly on the level of Rykov, Hajek, Lindgren, Reunanen, Robertson as left side defensemen. I really don't see how he fits into our future. He's always kind of underwhelmed as an offensive D--despite his size he's never been physical and his defending has always been his biggest weakness. Personally I'd easily take Zac Jones, Sjalin and Ragnarsson over him too.

I’ll be satisfied if he becomes a 7D. Not counting on him being more than another Gilroy to be honest.

 

[RangersFan1994]

I’ll be satisfied if he becomes a 7D. Not counting on him being more than another Gilroy to be honest.

i don't even see a Gilroy. i see a AHL player that might get a game or 2 because of his skating which I don't think is that good either. overrated prospect.

 

[True Blue]

Even the Rangers come away with someone like Stutzle, Mysak or Holloway, I think they’ll be in very good shape.

Absolutely. That would be the cherry on top.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

How many elite players in the history of the NHL were drafted 7th overall? He's a 20 year old kid with limited NHL experience so we don't really know what his upside is yet. Let the kid develop before throwing dumb labels around.

I think an even better question to help your point is how many elite players are in the 7-12 range generally and how many were taken that year around 7-12.

Then you take a comprehensive look at how the nyr pick compared to league average for elite players. Then look at how they pick top 6/4 guys against the league average and how often they bust.

Anyone could look at a single pick that doesnt go how we hoped but it's just not a correct t way to evaluate a teams draft ability overall

I look at prospect trades too. If hajek, rykov, howden, etc work out then to me that's speaks to the ability of our scouts as well

 

[DanielBrassard]

Incredible seeing this team being #1 in a prospect ranking. Some of the rankings were surprising but I know Pronman is always a bit off the board compared to others.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Blueshirts will be cashing in their rebuild bounty in the next few seasons, leading to an exciting squad propelled by fierce internal competition. If you're a center or blueline prospect in New York, you're gonna have to fight for your spot, while the goaltending is going to look very different than usual.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Whether someone loved the pick, or loathed the pick, if the expectation was for Andersson or any of the other options on the board at #7 in 2017 to become an elite talent, disappointment was a near certainty.

But yet, it’s possible that a year later the Rangers may have picked an elite talent at #9. I guess that speaks more about the respective drafts.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

But yet, it’s possible that a year later the Rangers may have picked an elite talent at #9. I guess that speaks more about the respective drafts.

That’s why he made sure to add ‘in 2017’

 

[Edge]

But yet, it’s possible that a year later the Rangers may have picked an elite talent at #9. I guess that speaks more about the respective drafts.

Which is part of the challenge - not all drafts are created equal.

For example 2017 certainly wasn't viewed the same way as 2016, 2018 or 2019. It's certainly not going to be viewed the same way as 2020. Obviously that's nothing really new, as 1996 wasn't 1997, 2002 wasn't 2003, etc., etc.

Personally, I'm less concerned about the number at which a player was selected, so much as the context in which he was selected.

 

[McRanger]

Which is part of the challenge - not all drafts are created equal.

For example 2017 certainly wasn't viewed the same way as 2016, 2018 or 2019. It's certainly not going to be viewed the same way as 2020. Obviously that's nothing really new, as 1996 wasn't 1997, 2002 wasn't 2003, etc., etc.

Personally, I'm less concerned about the number at which a player was selected, so much as the context in which he was selected.

Right. I mean there's a reason Arizona was willing to give up their 7th overall pick in 2017 but was unwilling to give up their 7th overall in 2016.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Get me byfield and I'll be able to die in peace.

gonna have to win a top 2 pick again for that to happen. Cmon uncle Gary rig the lottery for us just once more! Devils got #1 in 2 out of 3 years

 

[Ghost of jas]

Which is part of the challenge - not all drafts are created equal.

For example 2017 certainly wasn't viewed the same way as 2016, 2018 or 2019. It's certainly not going to be viewed the same way as 2020. Obviously that's nothing really new, as 1996 wasn't 1997, 2002 wasn't 2003, etc., etc.

Personally, I'm less concerned about the number at which a player was selected, so much as the context in which he was selected.

Agreed and you qualified your statement. But, to just make a blanket a statement that people shouldn’t expect an elite talent picking at 7 is also somewhat disingenuous.

People can claim that people are being impatient, but the truth is the Rangers have created a situation that these kids can take nothing for granted. The fact is, Andersson, based on last year, is behind both Howden and Chytil. Barron is emerging asa quality prospect. The Rangers added Henriksson. There is major competition for the center spot and Andersson hasn’t put himself at the forefront of contenders. One of the side aspects of this rebuild of the system is that competition is going to push some board favorites aside. Just to add to this, I don’t think DeAngelo is doing himself any favors with an extended holdout.

Gorton and company have made so that aside from a scant few players, this rebuild isn’t completely tied to the success of the individuals.

 

[kovazub94]

I have yet to hear about an obvious alternative to picking Lias at #7 in 2017.

 

[Cag29]

He's a bust for a #7 pick because he doesn't appear to have elite talent. He is a mediocre skater with average hands. Not necessarily a bust relative to a decent NHL career. 3C seems to be his realistic best result.

Way too early to call him a bust.

 

[Edge]

Agreed and you qualified your statement. But, to just make a blanket a statement that people shouldn’t expect an elite talent picking at 7 is also somewhat disingenuous.

People can claim that people are being impatient, but the truth is the Rangers have created a situation that these kids can take nothing for granted. The fact is, Andersson, based on last year, is behind both Howden and Chytil. Barron is emerging asa quality prospect. The Rangers added Henriksson. There is major competition for the center spot and Andersson hasn’t put himself at the forefront of contenders. One of the side aspects of this rebuild of the system is that competition is going to push some board favorites aside. Just to add to this, I don’t think DeAngelo is doing himself any favors with an extended holdout.

Gorton and company have made so that aside from a scant few players, this rebuild isn’t completely tied to the success of the individuals.

I agree, and that's why I qualified the statement the way I did.

Looking back at 2017, I saw a drop after the sixth pick. Though the great irony is that there are still two guys picked ahead of Andersson who, for all intents and purposes, are only now turning pro. The difference is that our guy has been playing against men for a year-and-a-half, while those two have been playing against teenagers or college kids. I think that makes it feel like he's older than he actually is.

I'm also hesitant to get too far into the whole who's ahead of who at this point. There's a lot of factors and context missing from that, including usage, age, role, linemates and more. I think everything is pretty wide open right now and we almost forget how young some of these players are. Andersson is 20, not 22 or 23. A guy like Henriksson is waiting to begin his D+1 season, and Barron isn't even necessarily projected as a pro center at this point. Hell, the jury is still on Chytil sticking at center at this point. The point is that a lot can change very quickly, and I tend to think we're getting a little too far ahead of ourselves at this stage.

Personally, I continue to believe that we aren't having this conversation if Andersson is coming off a season in the OHL where he lit up the scoreboard against kids, or finally coming over from the SHL having continued to challenging age records. When I look at the results at the SHL and AHL, I don't see a player that is treading water, especially at only 19/20. My honest assessment is that this board has a bit of a edge to its views on Andersson that are fairly unique.

 

[Edge]

Right. I mean there's a reason Arizona was willing to give up their 7th overall pick in 2017 but was unwilling to give up their 7th overall in 2016.

Or why you didn't see Kreider moved for a package that included a 2019 pick.

 

[aufheben]

Why are we even arguing about a player who isn't eligible for this ranking?

 

[RangerBlues]

I agree, and that's why I qualified the statement the way I did.

Looking back at 2017, I saw a drop after the sixth pick. Though the great irony is that there are still two guys picked ahead of Andersson who, for all intents and purposes, are only now turning pro. The difference is that our guy has been playing against men for a year-and-a-half, while those two have been playing against teenagers or college kids. I think that makes it feel like he's older than he actually is.

I'm also hesitant to get too far into the whole who's ahead of who at this point. There's a lot of factors and context missing from that, including usage, age, role, linemates and more. I think everything is pretty wide open right now and we almost forget how young some of these players are. Andersson is 20, not 22 or 23. A guy like Henriksson is waiting to begin his D+1 season, and Barron isn't even necessarily projected as a pro center at this point. Hell, the jury is still on Chytil sticking at center at this point. The point is that a lot can change very quickly, and I tend to think we're getting a little too far ahead of ourselves at this stage.

Personally, I continue to believe that we aren't having this conversation if Andersson is coming off a season in the OHL where he lit up the scoreboard against kids, or finally coming over from the SHL having continued to challenging age records. When I look at the results at the SHL and AHL, I don't see a player that is treading water, especially at only 19/20. My honest assessment is that this board has a bit of a edge to its views on Andersson that are fairly unique.

An experiment in player development.

 

[Edge]

Why are we even arguing about a player who isn't eligible for this ranking?

The Rangers are in such a unique position because there are guys who don’t “qualify” as prospects, but in many ways they essentially are. Kids who are 19,20,21, even 23 who are aren’t quite established, but aren’t seeing their first taste of NHL talent either. In some cases, these kids are younger than players who do qualify for prospect status who haven’t played their first pro games yet.

So it becomes hard to have conversations about the jigsaw puzzle that is our organizational depth right now, without having a somewhat expanded conversation.

To tell you the truth, it’s really exciting. I haven’t seen anything like this since 1990/1991.

 

[Levitate]

While Andersson has had some small issues (probably should have produced better in the AHL) I don't think he's gotten a fair shake in the NHL yet either. It's really really hard to show much playing 4th line minutes with mediocre players which is about all he's gotten at that level.
I've said it before but I think he's got to start being more assertive with the puck and do more than "fight for the puck, try to move it to a teammate, go to the net". That's the simple play but for all the complaints about his skill, he has the hands to "make the first player miss" and a wrist shot that is NHL scorer quality if he can find space to use it. He needs to be doing more than fighting for pucks and fighting for position in front of the net, but that's mostly what I saw him doing so far in the NHL.