Prospect Info: Rangers Prospect Thread (Player Stats/Info in Post #1; Updated 9.1.19)

[Rongomania]

Like I said earlier, I like Georgie. He played well last year. I just think Igor might be even better. Which is no small feat. And with him now under Benoit's care, (and that should not be taken lightly) he will only improve. Georgie has already benefitted from Allaire. I also think you put too much emphasis's on how many shots a goalie has faced. NHL teams averaged 31 SOG last year. You're making too much of an extra 8 shots per game. The NHL game is different. With more skilled players and more parity, the game has become simpler in scope. Take lots of shots and look for tips or rebounds with traffic in front. So the increase in shots in the NHL are not generally top quality chances. They are not odd man rushes or the like.

But I get your point that Georgie might become a stellar goalie. And he might have to be. Our blueline looks very weak this year. Trouba and Fox are not known for their defensive awareness. And the rest from last year other than Staal did not play well in their end. We might need a goalie to stand on their head. And that just might be Igor. And possibly Georgie too.

Jake Troubda is certainly known for his defensive awareness. He's a crease clearer and bangs bodies for sure bud. Foxy on the other hand .. I have faith ..

 

[Tawnos]

Jake Troubda is certainly known for his defensive awareness. He's a crease clearer and bangs bodies for sure bud. Foxy on the other hand .. I have faith ..

The reports on Trouba out of Winnipeg are really interesting. It seems to be that he provides high end defensive play most of the time, but also commits the occasional defensive gaffe.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The reports on Trouba out of Winnipeg are really interesting. It seems to be that he provides high end defensive play most of the time, but also commits the occasional defensive gaffe.

So he’s basically like every good D in this league?

Awesome

 

[Rongomania]

The reports on Trouba out of Winnipeg are really interesting. It seems to be that he provides high end defensive play most of the time, but also commits the occasional defensive gaffe.

Same could be said about the top ten best d men in the NHL so ima take it !

 

[Tawnos]

So he’s basically like every good D in this league?

Awesome

Most of the good defensive D in the league wouldn't get described that way. Usually they're considered much steadier than that. While I'm sure Pietrangelo, for example, has a gaffe here and there, it's not significant enough to mention. I believe the words I saw in regards to Trouba were "expect one every game"

It makes me think of Roszival, who was a much better defenseman that he got credit for here and a big reason he didn't get the credit was because he was somewhat gaffe-prone. Usually, though, he was really good.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Most of the good defensive D in the league wouldn't get described that way. Usually they're considered much steadier than that. While I'm sure Pietrangelo, for example, has a gaffe here and there, it's not significant enough to mention. I believe the words I saw in regards to Trouba were "expect one every game"

It makes me think of Roszival, who was a much better defenseman that he got credit for here and a big reason he didn't get the credit was because he was somewhat gaffe-prone. Usually, though, he was really good.

Until pietriangelo ends up on another team...

The gaffe a game thing is hyperbole. He may make ones that stick out, but no D is flawless during an entire game.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I've never been as enthusiastic about the NYR prospect group as I am right now.

Guys like Aaltonen, Jones, Keane, and Barron look a lot nicer right now than Jason Wilson, Keegan Iverson, ect. Of course hindsight is 20-20, but I'm optimistic we are going to start to see more NYR non-first-rounders begin to make waves.
​

Agree, this is the most exciting group of prospects i’ve ever seen for the Rangers. I’m greedy though and would still like another lottery pick

Meanwhile, I really like Barron a lot. Watching him at the Stamford prospect development camp he was tough. He could have laid out multiple players yet there was no real hitting while the physical play in the corners was legit.

 

[Tawnos]

Until pietriangelo ends up on another team...

The gaffe a game thing is hyperbole. He may make ones that stick out, but no D is flawless during an entire game.

I'm not saying they are, but obviously these were enough and there were enough of them to make people notice. But what is a gaffe anyway? McDonagh wasn't flawless or anything, but he very rarely committed something I would consider a gaffe.... which in my mind is essentially an unforced turnover in a bad spot in the defensive zone. The prime example of what I consider a gaffe in recent Rangers history would be Girardi's turnover in OT of game 1 in the SCF. Obviously, not every one is quite as egregious as that, but that's the idea.

 

[Tawnos]

Agree, this is the most exciting group of prospects i’ve ever seen for the Rangers. I’m greedy though and would still like another lottery pick

Meanwhile, I really like Barron a lot. Watching him at the Stamford prospect development camp he was tough. He could have laid out multiple players yet there was no real hitting while the physical play in the corners was legit.

One of the more interesting aspects of this rebuild, which is something most of us Rangers fans have never been through, is the way we view prospects differently. There was a time, not all that long ago, where Barron would've been a major hope for the future in the Rangers system. And sometimes, that would pan out pretty well (see Derek Stepan). Now, Barron is almost a forgotten man.

Hell, Chytil is almost a forgotten man at this stage. And it's great.

 

[ohbaby]

Jake Troubda is certainly known for his defensive awareness. He's a crease clearer and bangs bodies for sure bud. Foxy on the other hand .. I have faith ..

Yes there is an edge to his play, tough as nails, but he was never known as a shutdown D man. More of a good puck mover. Staal and Skjei are our two best defenders and so I do not see any improvement defending the net over last year. I like Trouba. He plays with grit. But his addition won't save this blueline. I have higher hopes for Fox. This kid was dominating offensively in college as a D man last year. He lead all players in the NCAA in points per game. But we also had a Hobey Baker D-man in the past that didn't pan out so,...

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

so far unanimous across the board #1 prospect pool in the NHL for the New York Hockey Rangers, which is A) pretty unbelievable if you've been a Rangers fan for very long and B) pretty crazy how there is nobody talking about it on the main boards. Even when a new list is released its all arguing about where Montreal and Vancouver should be ranked. Imagine if any Canadian team were ranked 1st, the hurricane of shit that this website would be.

 

[nyr2k2]

Like I said earlier, I like Georgie. He played well last year. I just think Igor might be even better. Which is no small feat. And with him now under Benoit's care, (and that should not be taken lightly) he will only improve. Georgie has already benefitted from Allaire. I also think you put too much emphasis's on how many shots a goalie has faced. NHL teams averaged 31 SOG last year. You're making too much of an extra 8 shots per game. The NHL game is different. With more skilled players and more parity, the game has become simpler in scope. Take lots of shots and look for tips or rebounds with traffic in front. So the increase in shots in the NHL are not generally top quality chances. They are not odd man rushes or the like.

But I get your point that Georgie might become a stellar goalie. And he might have to be. Our blueline looks very weak this year. Trouba and Fox are not known for their defensive awareness. And the rest from last year other than Staal did not play well in their end. We might need a goalie to stand on their head. And that just might be Igor. And possibly Georgie too.

Last season, on a number of occasions, I tried to provide some context to Shesterkin's stats in the KHL.

The top five goalie save percentages/GAA's in the regular season:
1. Shesterkin .953, 1.11
2. Johansson .945, 1.15
3. Sorokin .940, 1.16
4. Hellberg .940, 1.32
5. Kovar .939, 1.78

Shesterkin and Hellberg split time for SKA. Johansson and Sorokin split time for CSKA. Kovar played for Avtomobilist. SKA and CSKA are your two powerhouses. They're so much better than everyone else (not unbeatable, but way better). Avtomobilist won their conference after getting off to some absurd start, just cruising through the season. Those goaltending numbers are unreal. That's the nature of the KHL, however. I mean, all of those seasons would be historic in the NHL. The save percentages would all be top-five best ever, the GAA (except for Kovar) would all shatter the modern-era records. My point is that you can't just look at KHL goaltending stats and translate them to the NHL.

On that list, Lars Johansson was a good-but-not-great goaltender in Sweden. He comes to the KHL and shatters his personal records for SV% and GAA. We all know Magnus Hellberg. Average AHL goalie. Then he goes and has a career year for Kunlun, of all f***ing teams, before having an enormous year for SKA. Did these two magically become elite-level goaltenders, or is the KHL a different animal that inflates goalie stats?

There were 25 goalies in the KHL who played 12+ games and who had a SV% > .920. In the NHL, there were nine! In the KHL, there were 11 goalies with a SV% > .930. In the NHL, there were two! In the KHL, there were 19 goalies with four or more shutouts. In the NHL, there were 15--despite the NHL playing 26 more games per team. In the KHL, there were 20 goalies with a GAA < 2.20. In the NHL, there were three. And, despite the KHL having so many more goalies doing all these amazing things, they had six fewer teams than the NHL last year. 12 fewer goalie spots.

So, again, does the KHL hold a monopoly on elite goalies? Of course not. A lot of the guys that post NHL all star-caliber numbers over there weren't even very good outside of the KHL. The game they play in the KHL is substantially different, as others have mentioned, and it really, dramatically affects the goalie numbers. You basically need to knock .15-.20 points off a save percentage and add .5-1.00 to the GAA to get a better sense of what these numbers would look like in the NHL.

With all that said--Shesterkin has always been at or near the top of the KHL in terms of his statistical performance, from a very young age, and has played very well in numerous international events. There's no reason to think he's anything but a stud prospect, which is why he's always top three or four in our polls and most/many people rank him the best prospect in the world. We just need to keep perspective with him; those numbers you see from the KHL do not translate at all to the NHL and he may need some time adjusting to the different style of game. Sharper-angle shots, faster pace, more traffic in front. All things he'll have to learn to contend with. I am confident he is our future starter, but I don't expect him to just come in and blow the f***ing doors off MSG with his play.

 

[kovazub94]

I'm not saying they are, but obviously these were enough and there were enough of them to make people notice. But what is a gaffe anyway? McDonagh wasn't flawless or anything, but he very rarely committed something I would consider a gaffe.... which in my mind is essentially an unforced turnover in a bad spot in the defensive zone. The prime example of what I consider a gaffe in recent Rangers history would be Girardi's turnover in OT of game 1 in the SCF. Obviously, not every one is quite as egregious as that, but that's the idea.

Funny, when I was reading your first post with a reference to high-end defeseman prone to gaffe, the familiar name that came immediately to my mind was McDonagh.

 

[eco's bones]

Last season, on a number of occasions, I tried to provide some context to Shesterkin's stats in the KHL.

The top five goalie save percentages/GAA's in the regular season:
1. Shesterkin .953, 1.11
2. Johansson .945, 1.15
3. Sorokin .940, 1.16
4. Hellberg .940, 1.32
5. Kovar .939, 1.78

Shesterkin and Hellberg split time for SKA. Johansson and Sorokin split time for CSKA. Kovar played for Avtomobilist. SKA and CSKA are your two powerhouses. They're so much better than everyone else (not unbeatable, but way better). Avtomobilist won their conference after getting off to some absurd start, just cruising through the season. Those goaltending numbers are unreal. That's the nature of the KHL, however. I mean, all of those seasons would be historic in the NHL. The save percentages would all be top-five best ever, the GAA (except for Kovar) would all shatter the modern-era records. My point is that you can't just look at KHL goaltending stats and translate them to the NHL.

On that list, Lars Johansson was a good-but-not-great goaltender in Sweden. He comes to the KHL and shatters his personal records for SV% and GAA. We all know Magnus Hellberg. Average AHL goalie. Then he goes and has a career year for Kunlun, of all ****ing teams, before having an enormous year for SKA. Did these two magically become elite-level goaltenders, or is the KHL a different animal that inflates goalie stats?

There were 25 goalies in the KHL who played 12+ games and who had a SV% > .920. In the NHL, there were nine! In the KHL, there were 11 goalies with a SV% > .930. In the NHL, there were two! In the KHL, there were 19 goalies with four or more shutouts. In the NHL, there were 15--despite the NHL playing 26 more games per team. In the KHL, there were 20 goalies with a GAA < 2.20. In the NHL, there were three. And, despite the KHL having so many more goalies doing all these amazing things, they had six fewer teams than the NHL last year. 12 fewer goalie spots.

So, again, does the KHL hold a monopoly on elite goalies? Of course not. A lot of the guys that post NHL all star-caliber numbers over there weren't even very good outside of the KHL. The game they play in the KHL is substantially different, as others have mentioned, and it really, dramatically affects the goalie numbers. You basically need to knock .15-.20 points off a save percentage and add .5-1.00 to the GAA to get a better sense of what these numbers would look like in the NHL.

Great post. I think one of the things that happens in the European leagues is that extra 15' wide means teams can't crash and jam nets like they do in North America because there is just too much space for the opposing team to counterattack if they regain the puck.....so the play is a little more spread out --less traffic in front of goalies. It also means a defenseman has to really work at good positioning all the time. It's an easier life for goalies though.

With all that said--Shesterkin has always been at or near the top of the KHL in terms of his statistical performance, from a very young age, and has played very well in numerous international events. There's no reason to think he's anything but a stud prospect, which is why he's always top three or four in our polls and most/many people rank him the best prospect in the world. We just need to keep perspective with him; those numbers you see from the KHL do not translate at all to the NHL and he may need some time adjusting to the different style of game. Sharper-angle shots, faster pace, more traffic in front. All things he'll have to learn to contend with. I am confident he is our future starter, but I don't expect him to just come in and blow the ****ing doors off MSG with his play.

Great post. IMO it's a pretty easy life for a lot of goalies in Europe. That extra 15 feet in width of hockey rinks means teams can't crash and jam the net like they do in North America. Too much open space for their opponents to counterattack if they lose the puck.

 

[UnSandvich]

I think Wheeler is pretty high on Adam Fox:

The Gifted: Rangers prospect Adam Fox has all the makings of...

 

[Edge]

so far unanimous across the board #1 prospect pool in the NHL for the New York Hockey Rangers, which is A) pretty unbelievable if you've been a Rangers fan for very long and B) pretty crazy how there is nobody talking about it on the main boards. Even when a new list is released its all arguing about where Montreal and Vancouver should be ranked. Imagine if any Canadian team were ranked 1st, the hurricane of **** that this website would be.

It's arguably the deepest their pool has been since the very early 90s.

The keystone is getting a guy like Kakko because every other prospect falls in line around him. It changes the entire conversation because you now have a prospect for whom there isn't a lot of debate about the upside --- he projects as a franchise forward. There's not maybe or hedging on the upside, or 1A/1B type situation with two prospects. He's clearly the top guy, with top upside.

From there you have legit star player upsides, and then solid top six/top defensive pair upside, so on and so forth.

 

[cwede]

I think Wheeler is pretty high on Adam Fox:
The Gifted: Rangers prospect Adam Fox has all the makings of...

our favorite excerpt:
"In the last decade, no defenceman has bested that production....The players who’ve come the closest from a raw points perspective include Brendan Smith (1.24 points per game) ..."

 

[ohbaby]

Last season, on a number of occasions, I tried to provide some context to Shesterkin's stats in the KHL.

The top five goalie save percentages/GAA's in the regular season:
1. Shesterkin .953, 1.11
2. Johansson .945, 1.15
3. Sorokin .940, 1.16
4. Hellberg .940, 1.32
5. Kovar .939, 1.78

Shesterkin and Hellberg split time for SKA. Johansson and Sorokin split time for CSKA. Kovar played for Avtomobilist. SKA and CSKA are your two powerhouses. They're so much better than everyone else (not unbeatable, but way better). Avtomobilist won their conference after getting off to some absurd start, just cruising through the season. Those goaltending numbers are unreal. That's the nature of the KHL, however. I mean, all of those seasons would be historic in the NHL. The save percentages would all be top-five best ever, the GAA (except for Kovar) would all shatter the modern-era records. My point is that you can't just look at KHL goaltending stats and translate them to the NHL.

On that list, Lars Johansson was a good-but-not-great goaltender in Sweden. He comes to the KHL and shatters his personal records for SV% and GAA. We all know Magnus Hellberg. Average AHL goalie. Then he goes and has a career year for Kunlun, of all ****ing teams, before having an enormous year for SKA. Did these two magically become elite-level goaltenders, or is the KHL a different animal that inflates goalie stats?

There were 25 goalies in the KHL who played 12+ games and who had a SV% > .920. In the NHL, there were nine! In the KHL, there were 11 goalies with a SV% > .930. In the NHL, there were two! In the KHL, there were 19 goalies with four or more shutouts. In the NHL, there were 15--despite the NHL playing 26 more games per team. In the KHL, there were 20 goalies with a GAA < 2.20. In the NHL, there were three. And, despite the KHL having so many more goalies doing all these amazing things, they had six fewer teams than the NHL last year. 12 fewer goalie spots.

So, again, does the KHL hold a monopoly on elite goalies? Of course not. A lot of the guys that post NHL all star-caliber numbers over there weren't even very good outside of the KHL. The game they play in the KHL is substantially different, as others have mentioned, and it really, dramatically affects the goalie numbers. You basically need to knock .15-.20 points off a save percentage and add .5-1.00 to the GAA to get a better sense of what these numbers would look like in the NHL.

With all that said--Shesterkin has always been at or near the top of the KHL in terms of his statistical performance, from a very young age, and has played very well in numerous international events. There's no reason to think he's anything but a stud prospect, which is why he's always top three or four in our polls and most/many people rank him the best prospect in the world. We just need to keep perspective with him; those numbers you see from the KHL do not translate at all to the NHL and he may need some time adjusting to the different style of game. Sharper-angle shots, faster pace, more traffic in front. All things he'll have to learn to contend with. I am confident he is our future starter, but I don't expect him to just come in and blow the ****ing doors off MSG with his play.

I agree with everything you said. Hellberg was in the Rangers organization and might have benefitted from Beniot's coaching. But that doesn't explain everyone else's stats in the KHL. I have no illusions that the KHL is comparable to the NHL. But for 3 years Igor has done all he could in the KHL. It's time for him to step up and I believe he has more to give. He strikes me as a confident, mature individual ready for a challenge. He has said all the right things while here, and with him working with the best goalie coach there is, I only see him advancing. For any goalie to come here, and somehow move up the depth chart over Georgie and Hank, would be a monumental task. No one has to tell me this is a tall order. And for him to have any chance in accomplishing this, it's like you said,... he will have to come in and blow the doors off MSG. He'll need time to get acclimated, I figure mid season before he makes his debut. Hank will get injured at some point, and Igor will come up.

 

[ohbaby]

our favorite excerpt:
"In the last decade, no defenceman has bested that production....The players who’ve come the closest from a raw points perspective include Brendan Smith (1.24 points per game) ..."

Plus if you look at what Hobey Baker winner Cale Makar did in Colorado's playoff run last year, it gives you hope. He and Fox had similar seasons last year in the NCAA.

 

[NYSPORTS]

One of the more interesting aspects of this rebuild, which is something most of us Rangers fans have never been through, is the way we view prospects differently. There was a time, not all that long ago, where Barron would've been a major hope for the future in the Rangers system. And sometimes, that would pan out pretty well (see Derek Stepan). Now, Barron is almost a forgotten man.

Hell, Chytil is almost a forgotten man at this stage. And it's great.

So true!!!! Steven Rice is the future, etc. Barron is one of many and you’re right, kinda forgotten and on the back burner. Oh yeah, Chytil is only a Sophomore in case we forgot.

Never seen a rebuild like this and so quickly. Great on paper yet with so many prospects they have room for misses/error. Would be nice for one more lottery pick and another #1 for Kreider. So promising.

On as side note, did anybody notice Islanders #1 pick and a player many of us showed interest in, Wahlstrom, left BC after a very mediocre freshman year and is planning on going to the AHL. Yikes

 

[ohbaby]

It's arguably the deepest their pool has been since the very early 90s.

The keystone is getting a guy like Kakko because every other prospect falls in line around him. It changes the entire conversation because you now have a prospect for whom there isn't a lot of debate about the upside --- he projects as a franchise forward. There's not maybe or hedging on the upside, or 1A/1B type situation with two prospects. He's clearly the top guy, with top upside.

From there you have legit star player upsides, and then solid top six/top defensive pair upside, so on and so forth.

We didn't do too bad last year either in the draft. Vitali Kravtsov was the most impressive in the prospects camp. And he might be further along than all the other rookie stars. Did well against the big boys in the KHL last year. And with Kakko here it will take the pressure off Kravtsov.

 

[wolfgaze]

I think Wheeler is pretty high on Adam Fox:

The Gifted: Rangers prospect Adam Fox has all the makings of...

Can you quote what Wheeler had to say?

 

[Irishguy42]

Can you quote what Wheeler had to say?

The whole article is Wheeler, not just a small blurb.

 

[UnSandvich]

Can you quote what Wheeler had to say?

In a nutshell, he goes over how Fox has the four most important component parts of an elite PP quarterback (threat of the shot, ability to walk the line, Deception and the element of surprise, and Finding the balance between poise and pace), and then demonstrates/provides video analysis and clips for each.

 

[wolfgaze]

The whole article is Wheeler, not just a small blurb.

Ah okay...

In a nutshell, he goes over how Fox has the four most important component parts of an elite PP quarterback (threat of the shot, ability to walk the line, Deception and the element of surprise, and Finding the balance between poise and pace), and then demonstrates/provides video analysis and clips for each.

Thank you...