Prospect Info: Rangers Prospect Thread (Player Stats/Info in Post #1; Updated 5.24.21)

[Igor Shestyorkin]

It’s not necessary to draft goalies?

"In spots where it's not necessary".

Like early 2nd round when we don't need a goalie. Please read the context.

 

[RGY]

Lots of things to unpack here.

of course what I am stating is nothing more than my opinion. But it is where most pundits and our own insiders agree as well. Beneirs in most drafts is outside the top-10. Yet in this draft, he is the most sought after forward.

In a draft this weak, yeah I have no issue with placing draft capital into a player that has the best chance of being elite.

Does one need an elite goalie to win it all? No. But then one does not need running shoes to run a marathon, but it certainly helps.

Having pocket aces as you see what you get on the river, makes for a calm evening. Having an elite successor to your elite currently goalie already in the system makes for smart business. Especially when he is taken in a draft like this.

The issue is you are advocating using 1st round capital to have a luxury of a potentially** elite goalie to come in behind Igor whenever he starts to decline. And I just completely disagree with managing an organization that way. The Rangers have drafted the BPA in the last two drafts, higher end talents. They even did it with the #19 pick, taking Schneider there, or at least it can be argued he was. They now need to draft based on need. They are right there to make that transitional swing in the next 1-2 years. They will need competent skaters ready to jump into the lineup on ELCs to keep the window open as long as they can over the next decade. Not the luxury of a goalie to eventually replace Igor, which would have to happen in the next 5 years or less because why else would you be taking this goalie? And is that something we really NEED to address in the next 5 years? I dont think so. And even if you tried to say well we could trade Igor OR Wallstedt, how often do proven goalies go for a great return? How about unproven prospects? They dont. You wanna know why? Because Organizations believe they can win with a slightly above average goalie and certainly wont pay a premium for the goalie position in a trade. They will, however, pay much higher for skaters.

 

[eco's bones]

To me Wallstedt is a package. 18 years old--6'3 214 lbs. He's more than less the starting goalie right now for Nils Lundqvist's Lulea SHL team where he's carrying a 2.11 GAA and .913 save%. Those are outstanding numbers for an 18 year old in a for real elite men's league. A notch above college or CHL. I don't think he's going to need 5 years to develop. He could be here in 2 or 3.

On the question of how he fits in. I don't mind the idea of our having a 1a and a 1b goalie tandem. I really don't think it's a smart idea either to have one goalie play 55 to 60 games a year and then expect him to win 4 rounds of playoff series. I'm not really all that interested either in our developing backup goalies to take the spare games that Igor doesn't play. I'd rather have another goalie that's really going to push Igor for his starter's job.

I also don't see the center depth as more than somewhat iffy after Johnson and Beniers. It's not going to be a great draft but if I were to put money on what player is going to be the best player that comes out of it---it would be Wallstedt.

 

[True Blue]

"In spots where it's not necessary".

Like early 2nd round when we don't need a goalie. Please read the context.

I did. And by my statement.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

To me Wallstedt is a package. 18 years old--6'3 214 lbs. He's more than less the starting goalie right now for Nils Lundqvist's Lulea SHL team where he's carrying a 2.11 GAA and .913 save%. Those are outstanding numbers for an 18 year old in a for real elite men's league. A notch above college or CHL. I don't think he's going to need 5 years to develop. He could be here in 2 or 3.

On the question of how he fits in. I don't mind the idea of our having a 1a and a 1b goalie tandem. I really don't think it's a smart idea either to have one goalie play 55 to 60 games a year and then expect him to win 4 rounds of playoff series. I'm not really all that interested either in our developing backup goalies to take the spare games that Igor doesn't play. I'd rather have another goalie that's really going to push Igor for his starter's job.

I also don't see the center depth as more than somewhat iffy after Johnson and Beniers. It's not going to be a great draft but if I were to put money on what player is going to be the best player that comes out of it---it would be Wallstedt.

Again I like Wallstedt but like, we can't be going through the Hank experience again. Need to build up the team in front of what goaltender you have. The Center ice position needs to be solidified. Can't worry about drafting a goalie so high.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

I did. And by my statement.

It's necessary to draft goalies but majority of the time, taking them high is a disaster. Remember Al Montoya? Brandon Halverson? Now Lindbom? Look at the Rangers as of late. Henrik Lundqvist, 7th round pick. Cam Talbot, undrafted. Igor Shestyorkin, 4th round pick. Alexander Georgiev, undrafted. These guys all turned out better than an Al Montoya or a Brandon Halverson. Goalie in itself is way too much of an engimatic position developmentally to be taking goalies with very high picks most of the time, when you can invest them into skaters.

If Rangers took a goalie that was BPA in the 2nd round, fine. But Lindbom for example was not BPA.

 

[True Blue]

It's necessary to draft goalies but majority of the time, taking them high is a disaster. Remember Al Montoya? Brandon Halverson? Now Lindbom? Look at the Rangers as of late. Henrik Lundqvist, 7th round pick. Cam Talbot, undrafted. Igor Shestyorkin, 4th round pick. Alexander Georgiev, undrafted. These guys all turned out better than an Al Montoya or a Brandon Halverson. Goalie in itself is way too much of an engimatic position developmentally to be taking goalies with very high picks most of the time, when you can invest them into skaters.

If Rangers took a goalie that was BPA in the 2nd round, fine. But Lindbom for example was not BPA.

I understand perfectly. This is not one of the players you mention. His game leaves Askarov in the rear view mirror

 

[kovazub94]

Not that I'm taking a strong stance on Wallstedt, but it's worth noting that any center we choose in the upcoming draft is likely to take at least 3 years to be a solid NHL contributor.

It's becoming increasingly apparent that for the early part of our competitive window, we either

A) Need to trade for an NHL center

or

B) Will have to go to battle with Zibanejad, Chytil, Strome down the middle

That potential center in the upcoming draft would realistically be unavailable to help the Rangers for at least another 3 years is important factor. I also agree that the best strategy should be taking a goalie (or two) from 4th round on every year.

On the other hand let’s say the Rangers bring Eichel, keep Chytil and trade Zibanejad to Vegas for Glass. If a goalie is by far the BPA in their spot - I’d understood if G and D pull the trigger on said goalie.

 

[Fitzy]

That potential center in the upcoming draft would realistically be unavailable to help the Rangers for at least another 3 years is important factor. I also agree that the best strategy should be taking a goalie (or two) from 4th round on every year.

On the other hand let’s say the Rangers bring Eichel, keep Chytil and trade Zibanejad to Vegas for Glass. If a goalie is by far the BPA in their spot - I’d understood if G and D pull the trigger on said goalie.

There’s something to be said for continuing to bring in younger goalies on cost controlled contracts. Just because Hank was kept here for fifteen years and through two long UFA contracts doesn’t mean every starter from now to the end of time needs to do the same

 

[eco's bones]

Again I like Wallstedt but like, we can't be going through the Hank experience again. Need to build up the team in front of what goaltender you have. The Center ice position needs to be solidified. Can't worry about drafting a goalie so high.

Unless we're getting Beniers or Johnson who might not even become legit 1C's the rest of the center crowd in this draft is likely to become Ryan Strome's at best. To me Wallstedt could easily end up Vasilevskiy good and who would you rather have Strome or Vasilevskiy?

The way we improve the center position is hope Chytil continues to take steps forward and/or working a trade. This draft is not likely going to give us the kind of point producing centers we need and drafting some guy just because of need who doesn't really have enough upside to fill the need is I don't know---shortsighted.

 

[kovazub94]

There’s something to be said for continuing to bring in younger goalies on cost controlled contracts. Just because Hank was kept here for fifteen years and through two long UFA contracts doesn’t mean every starter from now to the end of time needs to do the same

I mean how many complained about Hanks cap hit killing this team’s roster and / or the cost of buyout. Shesterkin will get paid on his next contract but what if he has Hank-like career and the Ranger are again faced with the same decision when Shesterkin is 30?

 

[eco's bones]

It's necessary to draft goalies but majority of the time, taking them high is a disaster. Remember Al Montoya? Brandon Halverson? Now Lindbom? Look at the Rangers as of late. Henrik Lundqvist, 7th round pick. Cam Talbot, undrafted. Igor Shestyorkin, 4th round pick. Alexander Georgiev, undrafted. These guys all turned out better than an Al Montoya or a Brandon Halverson. Goalie in itself is way too much of an engimatic position developmentally to be taking goalies with very high picks most of the time, when you can invest them into skaters.

If Rangers took a goalie that was BPA in the 2nd round, fine. But Lindbom for example was not BPA.

Al Montoya went through a string of injuries as a young goalie. Brandon Halverson was a late 2nd in a so/so draft and a CHL goalie when drafted. I'm not sure Lindbom has played a single game in the SHL to date. If you can't see that this 18 year old is already one of the better goalies in the SHL I don't what to tell you. The evidence is there already. None of the above were playing at a comparable level to Wallstedt as 18 year olders. None of Wall, Huska or Garand either. Ollas has played one game--he's also a draft ahead.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

I understand perfectly. This is not one of the players you mention. His game leaves Askarov in the rear view mirror

I don't necessarily disagree but I think would never use top 5-10 draft capital on a goalie under nearly any circumstance, personally.

 

[eco's bones]

Anyway I think we're more likely to find better centers in the 2022 draft. It's a patience game.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

I mean how many complained about Hanks cap hit killing this team’s roster and / or the cost of buyout. Shesterkin will get paid on his next contract but what if he has Hank-like career and the Ranger are again faced with the same decision when Shesterkin is 30?

Him having a Hank-like career is so ridiculously improbable that it shouldn't even be a worry.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Anyway I think we're more likely to find better centers in the 2022 draft. It's a patience game.

I agree in this regard, I just personally think using top 10 picks on goalies is a waste.

 

[kovazub94]

Him having a Hank-like career is so ridiculously improbable that it shouldn't even be a worry.

Worry? Absolutely not, but his KHL, AHL, NHL career so far doesn’t eliminate that scenario either.

 

[True Blue]

I don't necessarily disagree but I think would never use top 5-10 draft capital on a goalie under nearly any circumstance, personally.

That’s also fair and personal preference, I guess. For me, in THIS draft, taking what I see as the best goalie prospect since Henke, no problem.

 

[gravey9]

I agree in this regard, I just personally think using top 10 picks on goalies is a waste.

Furthermore, if you pick a goalie top 10 and he is great, you will be paying him too much cap too soon. With the current construction of the team and as many blue chip kids as we have + panaarin, kredier and trouba, we would be smart to focus on goalies who are very good and who know how to come up with a big save when the team needs it. The diff between a Jonathan Quick vs a Henrik. You can have stanley cup caliber goaltending for under 5-6m/year - that's what you want. Not 9 or 10m. In an 80m cap world you just cannot give that much to your goalie if your team also happens to have at least 8 skaters that will need to make over 5-6m and potentially in the next 2-3 years.

 

[True Blue]

Furthermore, if you pick a goalie top 10 and he is great, you will be paying him too much cap too soon. With the current construction of the team and as many blue chip kids as we have + panaarin, kredier and trouba, we would be smart to focus on goalies who are very good and who know how to come up with a big save when the team needs it. The diff between a Jonathan Quick vs a Henrik. You can have stanley cup caliber goaltending for under 5-6m/year - that's what you want. Not 9 or 10m. In an 80m cap world you just cannot give that much to your goalie if your team also happens to have at least 8 skaters that will need to make over 5-6m and potentially in the next 2-3 years.

They can easily wait to pay until later. Shesterkin is 25. There is plenty of time to draft and develop a list for 7 years. Then Shesterkin is 32 & Wallstedt is 23.

 

[gravey9]

They can easily wait to pay until later. Shesterkin is 25. There is plenty of time to draft and develop a list for 7 years. Then Shesterkin is 32 & Wallstedt is 23.

I wouldn't be against drafting Wallstedt. But I think we have to focus some of our efforts on building a playoff contender starting next season. I'd love to see what we can do about building center depth. We have so much young talent, it's the first year I'd be willing to move that 1st rounder if we can find a very strong top 9 center whose under 25 or younger.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Worry? Absolutely not, but his KHL, AHL, NHL career so far doesn’t eliminate that scenario either.

Yeah I mean I think Igor can be an elite goalie for a long time, I just am also in the "Hank is a top 3-5 goalie of all time" camp so I have a hard time setting that bar, haha.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

That’s also fair and personal preference, I guess. For me, in THIS draft, taking what I see as the best goalie prospect since Henke, no problem.

Fair enough. This daft class also just seems so weak on the surface, like 2012 weak.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Furthermore, if you pick a goalie top 10 and he is great, you will be paying him too much cap too soon. With the current construction of the team and as many blue chip kids as we have + panaarin, kredier and trouba, we would be smart to focus on goalies who are very good and who know how to come up with a big save when the team needs it. The diff between a Jonathan Quick vs a Henrik. You can have stanley cup caliber goaltending for under 5-6m/year - that's what you want. Not 9 or 10m. In an 80m cap world you just cannot give that much to your goalie if your team also happens to have at least 8 skaters that will need to make over 5-6m and potentially in the next 2-3 years.

Yeah I just think draft capital and cap space allocation is so much better used on your skaters.

All the same, in Hank's case, I think there was a lot more mismanaging with the team around him than giving him that contract, imo.

 

[gravey9]

Fair enough. This daft class also just seems so weak on the surface, like 2012 weak.

Compounding the issue is that most of the draft eligible players are barely playing any hockey this years makes this upcoming draft a total crapshoot. I think the trade value of the picks outside the top 10 is going to be at an all-time low in the cap era.

And how the heck will teams make assessments of kids after the first or second round??? It's a major challenge. I think the 2021 draft ought to be pushed until Dec 2021.