Prospect Info: Rangers Prospect Thread (Player Stats/Info in Post #1; Updated 1.27.20)

[nyr2k2]

Ragnarsson had an assist and was +2. He's doing well with Timra. 11-0-4-4, +3.

Henriksson was scoreless again. He hasn't made an impact in Allsvenskan yet, despite starting on the second line. He's 7-0-1-1 and -3, with just 4 shots.

 

[Ola]

My point was that it's not really clever to base a decision whether or not to trade Georgiev on his save percentage on an abysmal Rangers team (at least defensively)

For sure, and I agree. And like I said, I am illiterate when it comes to goalies. Just fail to see what else there is to base the evaluation on — that is so fantastic. Because it’s not the stats, hence why I posted the screen shot, so it must be something else.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

For sure, and I agree. And like I said, I am illiterate when it comes to goalies. Just fail to see what else there is to base the evaluation on — that is so fantastic. Because it’s not the stats, hence why I posted the screen shot, so it must be something else.

If your backup has almost the same sv% as your starter, there are 3 scenarios:

- Your starter sucks
- Your backup is great
- Your defense is responsible for the numbers your goalies put up

 

[tuozzi]

What's the reason for him getting very limited ice time? There was a recent tweet that showed Pajuniemi as the 20th on the team in min-per-game.

I think nyr2k2 already touched on it: there are guys ahead of him who should be much much better. I guess it takes a little time to give him his due because of those big name veterans. Also, the coach who was just fired was an idiot.

 

[tuozzi]

There's still talent on TPS, everyone is just having a bad year. They still have Ilari Filppula--he's 38 but a star in Liiga and he just had 35 in 44 last season. Korpikoski is their captain, he missed all of last season and hasn't really gotten going this year, but he's still very good. Zac Budish was a second round pick once, and he's always been a quality Liiga player (38 in 59 last year). They have some good players on defense, as well. I don't know why specifically they're having such a miserable year, but there's definitely talent on the roster. TPS wouldn't ice a team without some guys.

Their goaltending sucks, BTW. So it may be one of those things where they're behind it early and digging to get out.

I have to disagree with you here. I think Tirronen is a good goalie for this level and his stats from previous seasons support this. The problem is that the defense is beyond horrible, both the talent and the system.

Edit. Wish we hadn't let Reunanen walk a couple of seasons back. I bet he'll be a ranger in a season or two..

 

[Harbour Dog]

Can't say that I'm surprised that Henriksson can't produce in an older league quite yet. Even in TCT, it was easy to see that he still played a junior-style game.

He looks to have some high end talent and vision though. He's just got some filling out and learning to do before he can translate those things against men.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Can't say that I'm surprised that Henriksson can't produce in an older league quite yet. Even in TCT, it was easy to see that he still played a junior-style game.

He looks to have some high end talent and vision though. He's just got some filling out and learning to do before he can translate those things against men.

It's a big step from juniors to professional hockey at age 18.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Can't say that I'm surprised that Henriksson can't produce in an older league quite yet. Even in TCT, it was easy to see that he still played a junior-style game.

He looks to have some high end talent and vision though. He's just got some filling out and learning to do before he can translate those things against men.

It’s a league that Robin Kovacs put up a .77ppg pace in for his D+1 year as a comp.

He looks great centering future top 10 draft picks.

 

[Leetch3]

To be honest, I think Geo gets a bit of a free lunch just because he matches Hank. But with Hank — besides the odd couple of games here and there — probably is a 20-50 goalie in this league it doesn’t say much to me.

If we didn’t have Geo, we would probably have an Anders Nilsson or a Robin Lehner. Does Ottawa and Chicago have better Ds than we have?

Let’s say Geo went back to Russia, personal reasons or whatever, last summer. I honestly think that we would have a BETTER young goaltender next to Hank and infront of Shesty right now.

We would be super attractive for these young goalies that are on the verge. Mid 20s. A lot of size. We have Benny.

getting another backup now isn't an issue, the issue with dealing him now is we don't know yet who is better between him and shesty. they are the same age...

and your take on Hank is dead wrong. sure he's on the decline and not as good as he used to be but the advanced stats tell the true story not the ones you are looking at. if hank was on a good team, he'd be a vezina contender.

 

[Joey Bones]

Cap space is an asset.

And the Rangers aren't buying out Lundqvist....

 

[Joey Bones]

If your backup has almost the same sv% as your starter, there are 3 scenarios:

- Your starter sucks
- Your backup is great
- Your defense is responsible for the numbers your goalies put up

And the goals against average will also determine that. It's, honestly, always based on team play. If a goalie has the capability to steal games (like both Hank and Georgy have) then the defensive responsibility is the key concern for their stats at that is very much the case this season.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

It’s a league that Robin Kovacs put up a .77ppg pace in for his D+1 year as a comp.

He looks great centering future top 10 draft picks.

Eh, I know what you’re saying, but he’s an undersized guy. Let’s see where he is when he gets to 21-22.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

And the Rangers aren't buying out Lundqvist....

Correct. It's just as ridiculous as trading a backup based on sv% in November

 

[Ola]

getting another backup now isn't an issue, the issue with dealing him now is we don't know yet who is better between him and shesty. they are the same age...

Its just that, the question should definitely not be about finding out which goaltender of Geo and Shesty that is the best. Its not about Geo vs Shesty. Its about getting a great NHL goaltender. Theoretically, its of course possible that both can become a great NHL goaltender, and that we want to keep the best of the two.

But from a size POV both are fighting an uphill battle. And its not like Geo is setting the world on fire. JMHO.

 

[Ola]

Correct. It's just as ridiculous as trading a backup based on sv% in November

Nah, I think think this situation -- potentially -- has many ingrediens that might end up at a point where you want to go back and get a do-over. Like you just don't focus on the right things. It has happened many times in the past.

The brass ends up focusing way to much on Geo vs. Hank, and Geo vs. Shesty.

All I know that after this season has come to an end, it seems very likely that one of the ACTUAL Vezina candidates will be a fairly young goalie with great size that could have been had for free at some points the previous summers.

I am just missing the Hank vs Geo vs Shesty vs X. I don't think that is ridiculous.

 

[Leetch3]

Nah, I think think this situation -- potentially -- has many ingrediens that might end up at a point where you want to go back and get a do-over. Like you just don't focus on the right things. It has happened many times in the past.

The brass ends up focusing way to much on Geo vs. Hank, and Geo vs. Shesty.

All I know that after this season has come to an end, it seems very likely that one of the ACTUAL Vezina candidates will be a fairly young goalie with great size that could have been had for free at some points the previous summers.

I am just missing the Hank vs Geo vs Shesty vs X. I don't think that is ridiculous.

see I think this makes it a completely different argument/discussion...the idea that we should be looking for the best goalie and not be limited to the 2 russians just because they are here, I'm 100% in agreement with that idea.

the question though is who is 'X'? who is this superior goaltender that is 1) available and 2) young enough to fit out timeline? (it doesn't help us if the guy is good now but on the decline in a few years when we are good again).

the thing that I disagree with is that we should get rid of Georgiev now because some hypothetical, mystery goalie may or may not exist...you find me that guy and then we can talk about moving the guys we have. but for now those 2 are our best options...

its similar to the center position...i want another young stud center, but i'm not moving chytil cause we might get someone better. get me a better young center and then we can talk about the other options...

 

[kovazub94]

see I think this makes it a completely different argument/discussion...the idea that we should be looking for the best goalie and not be limited to the 2 russians just because they are here, I'm 100% in agreement with that idea.

the question though is who is 'X'? who is this superior goaltender that is 1) available and 2) young enough to fit out timeline? (it doesn't help us if the guy is good now but on the decline in a few years when we are good again).

the thing that I disagree with is that we should get rid of Georgiev now because some hypothetical, mystery goalie may or may not exist...you find me that guy and then we can talk about moving the guys we have. but for now those 2 are our best options...

its similar to the center position...i want another young stud center, but i'm not moving chytil cause we might get someone better. get me a better young center and then we can talk about the other options...

100% agree. Until we can compare Georgiev to Shesterkin in the same NHL head-to-head situation it wouldn't be smart for the organization to put itself in a position to chose one if it doesn't have to.

That is even disregarding more basic position that if both prove capable - trying to keep both for as long as possible (from the cap and FA status perspective).

 

[bobbop]

The league average save percentage in .908. So our guys, playing behind a very young and sometimes sloppy defense and a terrible defensive forward group are just below that number. Based on the eye test (oh yeah, the eye test!) they are doing quite well under difficult circumstances.

 

[romba]

The league average save percentage in .908. So our guys, playing behind a very young and sometimes sloppy defense and a terrible defensive forward group are just below that number. Based on the eye test (oh yeah, the eye test!) they are doing quite well under difficult circumstances.

Pretty soon we'll be 90's level scoring where a .900 save percent was pretty much the marker between bad and good goalie, as opposed .99999999998 where it's been at this millennium. Pretty crazy scoring rate.

 

[Mac n Gs]

The league average save percentage in .908. So our guys, playing behind a very young and sometimes sloppy defense and a terrible defensive forward group are just below that number. Based on the eye test (oh yeah, the eye test!) they are doing quite well under difficult circumstances.

You're not wrong either, and just looking at raw Save% and GAA doesn't truly factor in the workload each goalie faces.

Once you filter out goalies that haven't played 5 games yet, Hank and Georgiev are 1st and 9th for having the highest rate of xGA/60 during 5v5 play. If you factor in all situations, it jumps to 1st and 3rd.

Both of them get absolutely pummeled playing behind our team defense, so it's important to apply some context to how their stats look.

 

[nyr2k2]

Sjalin got back into the lineup. Only played 4:07 though. Major regression for him.

Lundkvist played 19:28 and was -1 with 3 SOG.

Edstrom--kid got 14:05 today and scored a goal on 3 shots. He has played 13+ in 3 of the last 5 games. I know 3 points isn't much, but for a very raw 19-year-old, even playing regularly in the SHL is great. He was ticketed for J20 until winning a spot on the team, and now he's getting some real minutes.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Sjalin got back into the lineup. Only played 4:07 though. Major regression for him.

Lunkvist play 19:28 and was -1 with 3 SOG.

Edstrom--kid got 14:05 today and scored a goal on 3 shots. He has played 13+ in 3 of the last 5 games. I know 3 points isn't much, but for a very raw 19-year-old, even playing regularly in the SHL is great. He was ticketed for J20 until winning a spot on the team, and now he's getting some real minutes.

Edstrom being a regular in the SHL is probably the biggest surprise for me out of our most recent draft class

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Edstrom being a regular in the SHL is probably the biggest surprise for me out of our most recent draft class

Same here, super happy about it as well. Him developing his game in the SHL in his D+1 year is great for everyone involved. With Hoglander most likely going pro next year, look for him to be given an opportunity to play regular middle-6 minutes last year and maybe put up some better offense.

 

[Joey Bones]

see I think this makes it a completely different argument/discussion...the idea that we should be looking for the best goalie and not be limited to the 2 russians just because they are here, I'm 100% in agreement with that idea.

the question though is who is 'X'? who is this superior goaltender that is 1) available and 2) young enough to fit out timeline? (it doesn't help us if the guy is good now but on the decline in a few years when we are good again).

the thing that I disagree with is that we should get rid of Georgiev now because some hypothetical, mystery goalie may or may not exist...you find me that guy and then we can talk about moving the guys we have. but for now those 2 are our best options...

its similar to the center position...i want another young stud center, but i'm not moving chytil cause we might get someone better. get me a better young center and then we can talk about the other options...

The thing with that, though, is that "X" could be Huska or Wall or even Lindbom. Hell, the Rangers might even sign someone out of Europe, Free Agency or NCAA and he could turn into something. Those "X's" are the reason why Georgiev could be considered on the move. Not saying that he should (he ultimately doesn't need to be the one to go), but that immediately eliminates this so called logjam. It's all up to management.

I for one think that Lundqvist will not retire after his contract is up. He'll go until he feels that he's ready to hang them up and he has the leverage to do so. The Rangers are his home and management knows that. So it would seem for a few more seasons that it'll be Hank w/ Shesterkin/Huska/Georgiev/whoever.

Whatever the future lineup is, the Rangers will have to make a decision on Georgiev THIS SEASON. He's an RFA at years end and he can definitely play a split starting role in the NHL. If the Rangers re-sign him, he's the backup until Shesterkin or Huska prove to be too good for the AHL (which might be sooner than we think). If he is traded, it automatically eliminates a logjam in the event that Lundqvist doesn't retire and plays a few more seasons. He doesn't have to be traded this year, either.

In regards to the expansion draft, signing Georgiev this year will mean they will protect him. Lundqvist will be a UFA and Shesterkin, Huska, Wall, etc. would be exempt. But does NYR really leave Lundqvist as a UFA before that offseason? I feel in Lundqvist's case, they'd extend him before the contract expires. If Lundqvist does indeed retire, it wouldn't matter. If I'm not mistaken, Seattle can still select UFA players. Just a thought.

With all of this said, the Rangers are in a good position with this many goalies knocking on the door. They already have a Top 5 winningest goalie on the books, two or three younger keepers ready to make a difference (for better or for worse), and all the time they need on them (minus Georgiev). I'm not worried.

 

[Edge]

Pretty soon we'll be 90's level scoring where a .900 save percent was pretty much the marker between bad and good goalie, as opposed .99999999998 where it's been at this millennium. Pretty crazy scoring rate.

Transition eras are always the most difficult to gauge because you become set in how things were viewed previously.

I remember the days when a goals against average under 3 and a save percentage above 90 was seen as a sign of being one of top goalies in the league.

I was a teenager the first time I can recall seeing multiple guys going past 91 percent on their save percentages and dropping below 2.5 on their goals against. That seemed wild.