Prospect Info: Rangers Prospect Thread (Player Stats/Info in Post #1; Updated 1.27.20)

[usekakkorightquinn]

Wisconsin has been underachieving for years. It's about time somebody started holding the coaching staff accountable.

 

[eco's bones]

College sports aren't like pro sports. Players at the NHL level pretty much live in a bubble during the season--between home and the rink and on airplanes and at hotels and team events.

Most college players are not going to become pro players and there's a balancing act between players and their coaches and their universities. For kids going to college there's the adaptation to college life that includes making new friends and exploring who you are and for many if not most being independent for the first time in their lives. The college athlete also has to keep his/hers grades up usually as well. This isn't shit that happens when you're a pro player. You can only regulate a colleg athlete's activity so much.

These are factors that David Quinn doesn't have to deal with anymore but that Tony Granato does. As well how well a team does is factored by recruiting. Wisconsin has been recruiting very well but ability to recruit is a big deal. A lot of the best college players come from Minnesota--the best of those players tend to want to play for Minnesota U. or U. Minnesota-Duluth. The same happens with a lot of New England kids particularly from Massachusetts when talking of Boston U. or Boston College.

Even so Wisconsin U. has turned out a lot of quality NHL players and continues to be a very good program. I have no issue with Miller being there and if he is there he should take advantage of college life but also keep his grades up. He went there and I think the Rangers were happy with his decision because his defensive play needed work and it probably still does. Mark Osiecki does have a great reputation but becoming a good defenseman is not something that you learn overnight and Miller is somewhat new to the position.

 

[Edge]

So far, the chatter has been the Rangers preference to keep him in college another year.

If they were to ask him to leave early, that would definitely be seen as an indication as to how they view the coaching situation in Wisconsin. To this point, they haven't expressed much in the way of concerns. But we'll see where that leaves us in the spring.

 

[cwede]

Wisconsin has been underachieving for years. It's about time somebody started holding the coaching staff accountable.

it could be worth waiting to see how this season evolves
Granato was brought in to turn the program around,

in Tony G's first coaching season back in Madison, just 2-1/2 years ago,
W played in 2017 B10 title game, basically with an inherited roster

this is his 4th season, which basically means his 2d recruiting class

7 of their 12 drafted players are Fr or So, many highly regarded (Miller, Turcotte, Caufield, Emberson)
Welcome to collegehockeystats.net

slow start, but they are relying on some key younger players
college hockey gets more serious in the 2d half
maybe wait til March before judging the situation in Madison

 

[cozandeffect]

I had no idea who Mark Osiecki was until yesterday so I won't pass judgement but Wisconsin hasn't exactly been a shining paragon of excellence since joining the Big 10. Granato probably won't be on the hot seat mostly because college hockey coaches have incredibly long leashes, but they're looking at 3 straight seasons under .500 and 6 years without a tournament berth.

If the Rangers are comfortable with Miller staying another year that's fine, but something is off with that program and has been for awhile. And it's not like they can blame recruiting now, given the last 2 classes.

 

[Johnny Danger]

how do you like Patrick Newells development so far? scored some points in the last games ...

 

[cwede]

how do you like Patrick Newells development so far? scored some points in the last games ...

yeah but very little until lately,
if he, Meskanen, the NCAA guys on AHL deals (LZG, Dmowski, Gropp), Ronning, Gropp, Elmer, had only contributed a little bit more offense, (and now Jones has no points in a month) HWP wouldn't be 19th AHL in GF ... and some of those OT games might've been won in regulation

 

[nyr2k2]

FWIW, in Mora's last game, Lindbom dressed as the backup. So he's apparently healthy again.

 

[nyr2k2]

Henriksson didn't have a point, but he was on for all the Sodertalje goals--one 5v5, one PP, one SHG.

 

[ElLeetch]

So far, the chatter has been the Rangers preference to keep him in college another year.

If they were to ask him to leave early, that would definitely be seen as an indication as to how they view the coaching situation in Wisconsin. To this point, they haven't expressed much in the way of concerns. But we'll see where that leaves us in the spring.

I have no problems with him staying there so long as the situation isn't a tire fire there.

Let him stay 3 years at Wisconsin, just like McD did.

 

[bobbop]

College sports aren't like pro sports. Players at the NHL level pretty much live in a bubble during the season--between home and the rink and on airplanes and at hotels and team events.

Most college players are not going to become pro players and there's a balancing act between players and their coaches and their universities. For kids going to college there's the adaptation to college life that includes making new friends and exploring who you are and for many if not most being independent for the first time in their lives. The college athlete also has to keep his/hers grades up usually as well. This isn't **** that happens when you're a pro player. You can only regulate a colleg athlete's activity so much.

These are factors that David Quinn doesn't have to deal with anymore but that Tony Granato does. As well how well a team does is factored by recruiting. Wisconsin has been recruiting very well but ability to recruit is a big deal. A lot of the best college players come from Minnesota--the best of those players tend to want to play for Minnesota U. or U. Minnesota-Duluth. The same happens with a lot of New England kids particularly from Massachusetts when talking of Boston U. or Boston College.

Even so Wisconsin U. has turned out a lot of quality NHL players and continues to be a very good program. I have no issue with Miller being there and if he is there he should take advantage of college life but also keep his grades up. He went there and I think the Rangers were happy with his decision because his defensive play needed work and it probably still does. Mark Osiecki does have a great reputation but becoming a good defenseman is not something that you learn overnight and Miller is somewhat new to the position.

A lot of Minnesota born players head to Wisconsin, Miller being the most recent example. I went to the high school tournament in St. Paul a few teams and there were always 20-30 college coaches at every game. The talent pool is deep. UMD has built a fantastic program and the U is starting to come back after a pretty bad ending to the Don Lucia era. By the end of Lucia’s time at Minnesota, he was getting slaughtered in the press for his inability to develop players. The word got around. I have a good friend there who was an NHL scout for many years and he told me about this years before the word showed up in the press.

 

[eco's bones]

A lot of Minnesota born players head to Wisconsin, Miller being the most recent example. I went to the high school tournament in St. Paul a few teams and there were always 20-30 college coaches at every game. The talent pool is deep. UMD has built a fantastic program and the U is starting to come back after a pretty bad ending to the Don Lucia era. By the end of Lucia’s time at Minnesota, he was getting slaughtered in the press for his inability to develop players. The word got around. I have a good friend there who was an NHL scout for many years and he told me about this years before the word showed up in the press.

That's always been true too. Stepan and McDonagh were both Wisconsin U. players from Minnesota. Minnesota U. though has always been the most popular destination of the Minnesota high school player. Wisconsin itself--though neighboring Minnesota and Michigan does not turn out all that many hockey players.

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

The Pack have a heck of a coach. Rangers would be incompetent not to get Miller there as fast as possible and off that college team.

 

[cwede]

The Pack have a heck of a coach...

I liked the KK hiring, but he has not shown much at all yet

Except being able to ride his veterans and his top-notch goaltending to a winning AHL record.
Aside from Joey Keane, benefiting from an otherwise veteran D corps, aftervChytil/Lindgren, no other young prospect skater has stood out or contributed regularly...

 

[Edge]

I liked the KK hiring, but he has not shown much at all yet

Except being able to ride his veterans and his top-notch goaltending to a winning AHL record.
Aside from Joey Keane, benefiting from an otherwise veteran D corps, no other young prospect skater has stood out or contributed regularly...

In fairness, with Lindgren and Chytil up, and Kravtsov on the other side of the planet, who is he really left with?

Andersson? He has 4 goals in 8 games and is starting to break out.

Rykov is going just coming back from injury.

Keane is putting up points.

Shesterkin and Huska are doing great.

Basically all of the "prospects" that are left down there are doing pretty well.

 

[kovazub94]

I liked the KK hiring, but he has not shown much at all yet

Except being able to ride his veterans and his top-notch goaltending to a winning AHL record.
Aside from Joey Keane, benefiting from an otherwise veteran D corps, no other young prospect skater has stood out or contributed regularly...

But what else is there to judge him on? Chytil’s turnaround in such a short time was remarkable. Any credit to KK? And “aside from Joey Keane” what else is there besides career minor leaguers and 4th line underachievers?

 

[cwede]

...what else is there besides career minor leaguers and 4th line underachievers?

i don't care which guys it is among Gettinger, Meskanen, Ronning, Gropp, Fontaine, Jones, Elmer, Newell, Dmowski, LZG, McBride, typically, effective coaching will find ways to take some of their marginal or developing guys and slot them and develop them into regular contributors

i am not damning KK, i just don't think he has delivered in that way yet

 

[Edge]

i don't care which guys it is among Gettinger, Meskanen, Ronning, Gropp, Fontaine, Jones, Elmer, Newell, Dmowski, LZG, McBride, typically, effective coaching will find ways to take some of their marginal or developing guys and slot them and develop them into regular contributors

i am not damning KK, i just don't think he has delivered in that way yet

I think those guys, if they come along, are going to be more subtle.

Right now, if he can get Andersson to a place where he can contribute and regain confidence, that will give him a lot of street cred with me.

 

[kovazub94]

i don't care which guys it is among Gettinger, Meskanen, Ronning, Gropp, Fontaine, Jones, Elmer, Newell, Dmowski, LZG, McBride, typically, effective coaching will find ways to take some of their marginal or developing guys and slot them and develop them into regular contributors

i am not damning KK, i just don't think he has delivered in that way yet

Eh, first the names you listed are not even that exciting at what they could do at the AHL level and KK has been on the job for barely a few months so it’s more about system and players playing hard for him at this point.

 

[Kovalev27]

I liked the KK hiring, but he has not shown much at all yet

Except being able to ride his veterans and his top-notch goaltending to a winning AHL record.
Aside from Joey Keane, benefiting from an otherwise veteran D corps, aftervChytil/Lindgren, no other young prospect skater has stood out or contributed regularly...

this simply just isn’t a good take my friend. The team is maybe the most structured in the AHL today. Providence coach just said the Pack are the best team they’ve played all year while praising their structure.

to say Keane only benefits because of the veterans around him and then say no young players have made an impact other than Lindgren and Chytil ( look at AHl rosters only a couple on each team that have nhl futures) and then say the coach hasn’t done anything to help those kids get to the next level is really silly.

 

[Vitto79]

So Wall , Huska, Shestyorkin all seem legit?

 

[Kovalev27]

I think Huska could be a solid NHL backup. I’m not sure he’s talented enough to be a Starting goalie. I like him I just think he’s a guy that probably would do better in the league 10 years ago. Heck even 5 years ago than now. Not great laterally not very smooth in his mechanics not real flexible. But he’s really bought into allaire and is using his skills to the best of his abilities. But at the nhl level he may get exposed a bit. Will be interesting to see him continue to progress. He’s been really good this year. At every level.

Wall I think has a lot of promise but I gotta see him at the pro level. Too soon. But he’s doing all you can ask for right now.

 

[cwede]

this simply just isn’t a good take my friend. The team is maybe the most structured in the AHL today...

good points, and btw thanks for being civil about it 8^)

 

[Ola]

I think those guys, if they come along, are going to be more subtle.

Right now, if he can get Andersson to a place where he can contribute and regain confidence, that will give him a lot of street cred with me.

I just lover hearing KK keep mentioning “passing, passing, passing’ in the post game PCs that often are cited over at Howlings.

He is a really disciplined coach and isn’t exactly known for having risk taking teams, and it’s so easy for a coach to just focus on limiting mistakes to be max the amount of games that are close and get you pts on the board.

But HFD will never become an effective farm system unless they improve the passing game. Like it’s not strange that the AHL haven’t kept up. The NHL started adopting and becoming more possession oriented after the 05’ lockout, and despite that the change in the NHL the last 3-4 years is pretty dramatic. Just how much involved the Ds are. How much teams hangs on to the puck.

The difference between the NHL and the AHL is downright dramatic in that sense. KK will have a firm opinion of what he would have wanted from a player in the NHL, and what he sees in the AHL is going to be dramatically different from that.

OTOH it’s of course not easy. It’s an up-hill battle to change how you play when the teams you play against by design are built to force mistakes and just play simple hockey, you get nothing for free. Over time the change will come for all teams.

Ultimately, and to @cwede’s point, I don’t think HFD will turn many non-top picks at forward into NHLers before the league is more like the NHL. Vinny L is a skilled player for example. But if you played him with Ziba or Panarin or someone like that, they would lose it with him instantly. He would constantly make plays that is the opposite of what they would try to accomplish.

 

[Edge]

I just lover hearing KK keep mentioning “passing, passing, passing’ in the post game PCs that often are cited over at Howlings.

He is a really disciplined coach and isn’t exactly known for having risk taking teams, and it’s so easy for a coach to just focus on limiting mistakes to be max the amount of games that are close and get you pts on the board.

But HFD will never become an effective farm system unless they improve the passing game. Like it’s not strange that the AHL haven’t kept up. The NHL started adopting and becoming more possession oriented after the 05’ lockout, and despite that the change in the NHL the last 3-4 years is pretty dramatic. Just how much involved the Ds are. How much teams hangs on to the puck.

The difference between the NHL and the AHL is downright dramatic in that sense. KK will have a firm opinion of what he would have wanted from a player in the NHL, and what he sees in the AHL is going to be dramatically different from that.

OTOH it’s of course not easy. It’s an up-hill battle to change how you play when the teams you play against by design are built to force mistakes and just play simple hockey, you get nothing for free. Over time the change will come for all teams.

Ultimately, and to @cwede’s point, I don’t think HFD will turn many non-top picks at forward into NHLers before the league is more like the NHL. Vinny L is a skilled player for example. But if you played him with Ziba or Panarin or someone like that, they would lose it with him instantly. He would constantly make plays that is the opposite of what they would try to accomplish.

Agreed, and I think it's important to remember that KK has only been there for a few months. So none of what we're looking at is likely the finished product.