Rangers Prospect List (Winter 2022) - #4

[nyr2k2]

This is a best prospect poll is it not? Just checking.

The comments speak for themselves, the voting has nothing to do with on ice performance. People Don’t have to agree, but let it be based on facts not on a vendetta against the player. That’s what happening, which is why there should be no reason to keep him on the poll.

Yeah, it is a prospect poll, with absolutely no defined criteria for how people are to vote. Some people vote on upside, others on likelihood of making it, some on things that I find irrelevant like positional need in the system, etc. It's all over the place and it always has been.

People have their reasons not to vote for him and that's totally fine, because again, there isn't a defined criteria to be used for voting. The idea that after we've done this thing dozens upon dozens of times over the years, that we should add an asterisk and declare the voting "unfair" because some people don't like the results for one guy, is absolutely preposterous.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yeah, it is a prospect poll, with absolutely no defined criteria for how people are to vote. Some people vote on upside, others on likelihood of making it, some on things that I find irrelevant like positional need in the system, etc. It's all over the place and it always has been.

People have their reasons not to vote for him and that's totally fine, because again, there isn't a defined criteria to be used for voting. The idea that after we've done this thing dozens upon dozens of times over the years, that we should add an asterisk and declare the voting "unfair" because some people don't like the results for one guy, is absolutely preposterous.

We're talking about a prospect ranking on a message board

Let's just vote and see where everyone ends up. If people get upset, they can skip the polls.

 

[NYR425]

Kravtsov beat Otthman by 11% in the OG poll for #3
Jones beat Kravtsov by 3% in the OG poll for #3, but then somehow in the tiebreaker wins by 26.2%
Now Othmann is beating Kravtsov by 3.2% for #4 lmao

It shows that even people who were not voting for those players are now voting for them over Kravtsov. This list is already illegitimate so you might as well let them take their anger out and vote for Berard over him for #5 lol. Lets see how far he'll fall

How is the list illegitimate? Is it not possible for the people who voted Jones to like Othmann more than Kravtsov or the people who voted Othmann or someone else for 3 to switch to Jones in the tiebreaker? Just because you LOVE Kravtsov its an Illegitimate vote. When rating prospects, character flaws are considered because they will prevent said player from becoming what he is capable of. In this case that is totally true, until Kravtsov grows up and realizes he has to earn whatever he gets and work his way into a top 6 role just like KK and Laf are doing. His ego/ character flaw will most likely prevent him from ever playing for the Rangers. Also when he gets a chance he needs to produce and not do nothing. He has basically done nothing when given the chance. Those of us that see this have moved him down our rankings. Some teams on draft day will put a player with that same character flaw in the DO NOT DRAFT list on their board. This is exactly why there is the so called Russian bias on draft day and Russians sometimes fall. Then guys like you cry the blues, but teams have been doing it for years and still do it because they don't want to risk the possibility of a #9 pick overall pulling this BS.

 

[Fireonk]

Lol. The anger being expressed because a first round pick, who is doing everything you can hope for in his D+1 season so far, is going to edge out a different first round pick who has bounced around the last couple years without really lighting any of those places up is ridiculous.

I can definitely see why someone would vote Kravtsov here, even if I didn't. If you can't see why others voted for Othmann without assuming it's some form of grudge then you are the ones not seeing clearly.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Lol. The anger being expressed because a first round pick, who is doing everything you can hope for in his D+1 season so far, is going to edge out a different first round pick who has bounced around the last couple years without really lighting any of those places up is ridiculous.

I can definitely see why someone would vote Kravtsov here, even if I didn't. If you can't see why others voted for Othmann without assuming it's some form of grudge then you are the ones not seeing clearly.

Seriously, it's absurd. I voted Othmann here. I'll vote for Kravtsov next if he doesn't go in this poll. All his issues put him at the bottom of what I consider to be our top tier of prospects. I don't think that's unreasonable, given his history, which has been discussed ad nauseum.

 

[mas0764]

Lol. The anger being expressed because a first round pick, who is doing everything you can hope for in his D+1 season so far, is going to edge out a different first round pick who has bounced around the last couple years without really lighting any of those places up is ridiculous.

I can definitely see why someone would vote Kravtsov here, even if I didn't. If you can't see why others voted for Othmann without assuming it's some form of grudge then you are the ones not seeing clearly.

Don't have to assume, some people have straight up said they aren't voting for Kravtsov because they don't like that he went back to Russia.

 

[Fireonk]

Don't have to assume, some people have straight up said they aren't voting for Kravtsov because they don't like that he went back to Russia.

Taking into account potential character issues and where a kid is playing/developing doesn't automatically mean it's a grudge. Both are absolutely fair things to take into account. I don't care who you blame for the situation, the facts remain that the last couple years have not gone the way you want for a prospect.

And again, we are talking about him narrowly losing to other first round picks and Zac Jones. Not like he's being placed behind future 4th line plugs.

 

[mas0764]

Taking into account potential character issues and where a kid is playing/developing doesn't automatically mean it's a grudge. Both are absolutely fair things to take into account.

There are people here who straight up said I'm not voting for the quitter.

That's a grudge.

 

[Fireonk]

There are people here who straight up said I'm not voting for the quitter.

That's a grudge.

Look, I am sure there are random people voting for random things for random reasons. 3 people have voted for Barron and 2 people have voted for Garand over both Kravtsov and Othmann. Individually, you will find ridiculousness everywhere.

Collectively, people are voting for Othmann over Kravtsov for legitimate reasons. Taking into account a perceived character issue is a legitimate reason. People complaining that this list is garbage because of that seem just as biased to me as the people who would never vote for Kravtsov at any spot.

I know Kravtsov is going to be given the next spot but I am sure if there was an actual poll he would run away with it anyway.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Taking into account potential character issues and where a kid is playing/developing doesn't automatically mean it's a grudge. Both are absolutely fair things to take into account. I don't care who you blame for the situation, the facts remain that the last couple years have not gone the way you want for a prospect.

And again, we are talking about him narrowly losing to other first round picks and Zac Jones. Not like he's being placed behind future 4th line plugs.

Leading a KHL team in goals for an entire season at 20-21 years old, after said season coming in and being voted the best player by HFNYR in those 20 games and everyone saying how they wish Kakko/Laf looked like Kravtsov did, and now producing at a pace in line with Buch/Kuznetsov/etc isn’t going the way you’d want for a prospect? Lol

 

[mas0764]

Look, I am sure there are random people voting for random things for random reasons. 3 people have voted for Barron and 2 people have voted for Garand over both Kravtsov and Othmann. Individually, you will find ridiculousness everywhere.

Collectively, people are voting for Othmann over Kravtsov for legitimate reasons. Taking into account a perceived character issue is a legitimate reason. People complaining that this list is garbage because of that seem just as biased to me as the people who would never vote for Kravtsov at any spot.

I know Kravtsov is going to be given the next spot but I am sure if there was an actual poll he would run away with it anyway.

You said "If you can't see why people are voting for Othmann without assuming it's some sort of grudge...."

I am not assuming. Some people straight up said they are not voting for Kravtsov because f*** him.

This does not preclude that many people voted for Othmann for all the reasons you said.

But some people voted for Othmann because they are mad at Kravstov.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Look, I am sure there are random people voting for random things for random reasons. 3 people have voted for Barron and 2 people have voted for Garand over both Kravtsov and Othmann. Individually, you will find ridiculousness everywhere.

Collectively, people are voting for Othmann over Kravtsov for legitimate reasons. Taking into account a perceived character issue is a legitimate reason. People complaining that this list is garbage because of that seem just as biased to me as the people who would never vote for Kravtsov at any spot.

I know Kravtsov is going to be given the next spot but I am sure if there was an actual poll he would run away with it anyway.

I wouldn’t be so sure. People are willing to distort reality and say he looked awful in his 20 games when they were gushing over him at the time.

 

[EdJovanovski]

You and Kravtsov and the phrase revisionist history is too much to take seriously together. People can disagree. Othmann has done enough to warrant people voting him #3 over Zac Jones who has done more at the AHL and NHL level to be impressed with than Kravtsov. Why wouldn't it be fair for people to also think he's a better prospect than Kravtsov for the same reasoning.

Kravtsov did accomplish some impressive things leading up to the draft and then immediately following. His trajectory since signing his ELC has been unsteady at best, and it's not unfair to say his stock has fallen grossly since--not strictly or even primarily for his attitude issues (where was he last ranked by TSN??).

And yeah, idc what posters at large react to in small samples or evaluate players in relation to hype. Reality is that Kravtsov sucked in the AHL and was mediocre in the NHL. He hardly blew the doors off the league.

View attachment 495705

Many other analytics had him as our best player through those 20games, Gauthier is also pretty much the embodiment of why analytics can be meaningless. The guy could generate the most high danger scoring chances in the league and it would still amount to nothing. Kravtsov’s most common linemates were also Rooney & Howden. You can go back and read the GDT’s, he was pretty unanimously considered one of our very best players through those 20 games. He also had comically bad luck with his first NHL goal being called off on a controversial offside challenge, him inexplicably being stripped of 2 assists by scorekeepers, remember the one that got awarded to Mika? He just about scored an insane falling down GWG in the final minute of his first NHL game against buffalo but the goalie got lucky with one of the saves of the year. He was the first man back on every backcheck, not only before the center but more than 50% of the time he was back before the second D. First man in on most forechecks. Most dangerous player with the puck in those 20 games was him and Panarin.

 

[Fireonk]

Leading a KHL team in goals for an entire season at 20-21 years old, after said season coming in and being voted the best player by HFNYR in those 20 games and everyone saying how they wish Kakko/Laf looked like Kravtsov did, and now producing at a pace in line with Buch/Kuznetsov/etc isn’t going the way you’d want for a prospect? Lol

I am not arguing that he hasn't developed at all. But are you really going to argue that his recent development has gone the way everyone was hoping for? And again, it's important to point out we are currently comparing him to Othmann. Both first round picks, but Othmann has clearly done everything you would hope for this year so far. You can't say the same for Kravtsov.

You said "If you can't see why people are voting for Othmann without assuming it's some sort of grudge...."

I am not assuming. Some people straight up said they are not voting for Kravtsov because f*** him.

This does not preclude that many people voted for Othmann for all the reasons you said.

But some people voted for Othmann because they are mad at Kravstov.

Which is fine to call out individual voters if you disagree with their reasoning. My whole claim was against people trying to invalidate the entire poll. Most people are voting with purely legitimate reasons and the reality is more people think Othmann is the better prospect than Kravtsov right now for those legitimate reasons.

 

[EdJovanovski]

I am not arguing that he hasn't developed at all. But are you really going to argue that his recent development has gone the way everyone was hoping for? And again, it's important to point out we are currently comparing him to Othmann. Both first round picks, but Othmann has clearly done everything you would hope for this year so far. You can't say the same for Kravtsov.



Which is fine to call out individual voters if you disagree with their reasoning. My whole claim was against people trying to invalidate the entire poll. Most people are voting with purely legitimate reasons and the reality is more people think Othmann is the better prospect than Kravtsov right now for those legitimate reasons.

Kravtsov led his entire KHL team in goals last season and is now producing on par with what star players did at the same age. How is anything about his play not in line with what we wanted? Othmann didn’t even crack the WJC roster. Kravtsov carried the team to a medal playing center with a torn tricep or something and the flu, which got him ranked as the #1 NHL affiliated prospect by TSN

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You and Kravtsov and the phrase revisionist history is too much to take seriously together. People can disagree. Othmann has done enough to warrant people voting him #3 over Zac Jones who has done more at the AHL and NHL level to be impressed with than Kravtsov. Why wouldn't it be fair for people to also think he's a better prospect than Kravtsov for the same reasoning.

Kravtsov did accomplish some impressive things leading up to the draft and then immediately following. His trajectory since signing his ELC has been unsteady at best, and it's not unfair to say his stock has fallen grossly since--not strictly or even primarily for his attitude issues (where was he last ranked by TSN??).

And yeah, idc what posters at large react to in small samples or evaluate players in relation to hype. Reality is that Kravtsov sucked in the AHL and was mediocre in the NHL. He hardly blew the doors off the league.

View attachment 495705

Yeah Krav came in and looked great in a limited role for like 8 games.

He flashed here and there afterwards, but he was hardly as effective after. I was optimistic overall about what he would be able to do this year but he ran home before he got the chance.

 

[Fireonk]

Kravtsov led his entire KHL team in goals last season and is now producing on par with what star players did at the same age. How is anything about his play not in line with what we wanted? Othmann didn’t even crack the WJC roster. Kravtsov carried the team to a medal playing center with a torn tricep or something and the flu, which got him ranked as the #1 NHL affiliated prospect by TSN

Most of the star players at the same age already made the jump to the NHL. Your boy Buch was putting up half a point a game in the NHL in his equivalent season. Kind of ridiculous to not agree that Kravtsov's current season has been less than what people were hoping for.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Most of the star players at the same age already made the jump to the NHL. Your boy Buch was putting up half a point a game in the NHL in his equivalent season. Kind of ridiculous to not agree that Kravtsov's current season has been less than what people were hoping for.

If people use the excuse for Kakko & Laf that they’re on such a good team, I will use that same excuse and say that Kravtsov would’ve made the team if the Rangers were the Rangers of Buch’s first season. Really Kravtsov should’ve made the team over Kakko in 2019. But because of optics despite having a much better camp than Kakko, they gave Kakko the spot because he’s the 2nd ovr. This year when Kravtsov didn’t make the team everyone was furious, go back and read the threads. Sure Kravtsov may have responded poorly but based on merit he should’ve made the team

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Leading a KHL team in goals for an entire season at 20-21 years old, after said season coming in and being voted the best player by HFNYR in those 20 games and everyone saying how they wish Kakko/Laf looked like Kravtsov did, and now producing at a pace in line with Buch/Kuznetsov/etc isn’t going the way you’d want for a prospect? Lol

The last time I saw someone get this upset over some votes, was when George W. Bush won the election

 

[Fireonk]

If people use the excuse for Kakko & Laf that they’re on such a good team, I will use that same excuse and say that Kravtsov would’ve made the team if the Rangers were the Rangers of Buch’s first season. Really Kravtsov should’ve made the team over Kakko in 2019. But because of optics despite having a much better camp than Kakko, they gave Kakko the spot because he’s the 2nd ovr. This year when Kravtsov didn’t make the team everyone was furious, go back and read the threads. Sure Kravtsov may have responded poorly but based on merit he should’ve made the team

Kakko and Laf have absolutely nothing to do with a prospect poll today between Kravtsov and Othmann. You are so blinded by your love that you take anyone preferring Othmann as completely dismissing all of Kratsov's past, present, and future achievements.

Losing out to other first round picks and Zac Jones by small margins isn't automatically people hating on Kravtsov. It's preferring the other guys.

 

[nyr2k2]

He has 13 points in 19 games, good for .68 PPG. Among players 22 and under, minimum 25 games (approx. half of a season), that ranks as the 28th-best season overall--remember the KHL has only formally existed since 2008.

Here is the table coming into today, before his assist, with 18 GP as the minimum, because EP hasn't updated yet:

Player	Season	Age	Team	GP	G	A	P	P/PG	PIM	+/-
Kirill Kaprizov (LW/C)	2019-2020	22	CSKA Moskva	57	33	29	62	1.09	10	32
Vladimir Tarasenko (RW)	2012-2013	21	SKA St. Petersburg	31	14	18	32	1.03	8	16
Alexander Radulov (RW)	2008-2009	22	Salavat Yulaev Ufa	52	22	26	48	0.92	92	26
Kirill Kaprizov (LW/C)	2018-2019	21	CSKA Moskva	57	30	21	51	0.89	16	34
Vladimir Tarasenko (RW)	2011-2012	20	totals	54	23	24	47	0.87	15	18
Kirill Kaprizov (LW/C)	2017-2018	20	CSKA Moskva	46	15	25	40	0.87	14	22
Yevgeni Kuznetsov (C)	2012-2013	20	Traktor Chelyabinsk	51	19	25	44	0.86	42	-1
Kirill Kaprizov (LW/C)	2016-2017	19	Salavat Yulaev Ufa	49	20	22	42	0.86	66	9
Nikita Filatov (LW/RW)	2009-2010	19	CSKA Moskva	26	9	13	22	0.85	16	3
Victor Hedman (D)	2012-2013	22	Barys Astana	26	1	21	22	0.85	70	18
Yevgeni Kuznetsov (C)	2011-2012	19	Traktor Chelyabinsk	49	19	22	41	0.84	30	5
Vladimir Tkachyov (LW)	2017-2018	22	totals	48	18	22	40	0.83	42	-3
Nail Yakupov (RW/LW)	2012-2013	19	Neftekhimik Nizhnekamsk	22	9	9	18	0.82	33	-4
Vadim Shipachyov (C)	2009-2010	22	Severstal Cherepovets	55	14	30	44	0.8	30	3
Vladimir Tkachyov (LW)	2016-2017	21	Admiral Vladivostok	49	14	25	39	0.8	18	0
Ivan Chekhovich (LW)	2020-2021	21	Torpedo Nizhny Novgorod	43	17	17	34	0.79	16	11
Anatoli Golyshev (LW/RW)	2015-2016	20	Avtomobilist Yekaterinburg	56	25	19	44	0.79	26	5
Artemi Panarin (LW)	2013-2014	22	SKA St. Petersburg	51	20	20	40	0.78	30	21
Dmitri Rashevsky (RW)	2021-2022	21	Dynamo Moskva	45	19	16	35	0.78	6	17
Anatoli Golyshev (LW/RW)	2017-2018	22	Avtomobilist Yekaterinburg	40	18	13	31	0.78	16	10
Alexander Vasilyev (RW/C)	2008-2009	19	Vityaz Chekhov	24	9	9	18	0.75	14	-5
Yegor Sharangovich (C)	2020-2021	22	Dinamo Minsk	34	17	8	25	0.74	41	11
Eeli Tolvanen (RW/LW)	2017-2018	18	Jokerit	49	19	17	36	0.73	28	14
Yevgeni Kuznetsov (C)	2010-2011	18	Traktor Chelyabinsk	44	17	15	32	0.73	30	7
Sergei Shirokov (LW/RW)	2008-2009	22	CSKA Moskva	56	17	23	40	0.71	36	7
Nikolai Prokhorkin (C)	2013-2014	20	CSKA Moskva	52	19	18	37	0.71	47	12
Maxim Karpov (RW)	2013-2014	22	Dynamo Moskva	48	11	23	34	0.71	2	15
Alexander Burmistrov (C)	2013-2014	22	Ak Bars Kazan	54	10	28	38	0.7	32	6
Arseni Gritsyuk (LW)	2021-2022	20	Avangard Omsk	37	15	11	26	0.7	8	7
Ilya Usov (C)	2021-2022	20	Dinamo Minsk	38	9	17	26	0.68	12	10
Kirill Marchenko (RW/LW)	2020-2021	20	SKA St. Petersburg	41	15	13	28	0.68	14	11
Yevgeni Kuznetsov (C)	2013-2014	21	Traktor Chelyabinsk	31	8	13	21	0.68	12	-10
Maxim Chudinov (D)	2011-2012	21	Severstal Cherepovets	52	9	26	35	0.67	62	8
Nikita Gusev (LW/RW)	2014-2015	22	Yugra Khanty-Mansiysk	55	21	16	37	0.67	12	1
Sergei Shmelyov (LW/RW)	2014-2015	21	Atlant Mytishchi	55	9	28	37	0.67	12	3
Valeri Nichushkin (RW)	2016-2017	21	CSKA Moskva	36	11	13	24	0.67	9	25
Vitali Kravtsov (RW)	2021-2022	22	Traktor Chelyabinsk	18	6	6	12	0.67	0	3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[nyr2k2]

The last time I saw someone get this upset over some votes, was when George W. Bush won the election

Did you miss the last US presidential election?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Did you miss the last US presidential election?

I was worried mods would delete it if that was mentioned considering the current political landscape in the US

 

[pblawr]

Does anyone else find some irony in Kravtsov voters wanting to leave the poll when they aren't happy with the result?

 

[kovazub94]

The last time I saw someone get this upset over some votes, was when George W. Bush won the election

Last time? Were you in coma in 2016 and 2020 lol?