Rangers Prospect List (Winter 2022) - #4

[mas0764]

What is the spirit of the poll? I look at it as who will be the best player for the Rangers over the course of his career. To me, at least right now, I believe Othmann will have a better Rangers career than Kravtsov.

I view the spirit of the poll to be not so much who will have the best Rangers career but rather who projects to be the best hockey player at their peak, for whatever duration that is.

Obviously that is subject to interpretation but I also think there is a difference in having a character flaw that is "drug addict and won't be able to stay on the ice," versus "had a personality conflict because he's immature and needs a change of scenery."

 

[nyr2k2]

I view the spirit of the poll to be not so much who will have the best Rangers career but rather who projects to be the best hockey player at their peak, for whatever duration that is.

Obviously that is subject to interpretation but I also think there is a difference in having a character flaw that is "drug addict and won't be able to stay on the ice," versus "had a personality conflict because he's immature and needs a change of scenery."

That's fair. I guess my hang up is that I'm not really sure that Kravtsov's issues will be resolved by a change of scenery. I think there's a real chance he's just a guy who wants things to be his way, and if circumstances aren't what he considers ideal, he retreats. I could be completely off base in my fear, but that's where I am. I'm not totally sure he really wants to make it as an NHLer.

I f I didn't have that fear he'd be #1 on my list.

 

[mas0764]

I think this board has dramatically oversold Kravtsov's issues because of being scarred by Lias and because, as fans, the natural inclination is to back the team instead of blame it.

 

[pld459666]

Because at this point it's just being punitive for him having a fight with management (who shares plenty of the blame by the way).

I mean, where should the fall stop? At 20? Well, he's a bad character, he may never play in the NHL!

Yeah, but at some point the talent has to counter balance the bad character. We are easily at that spot now.

We were at that spot at #2

 

[duhmetreE]

What Brendan Othmann is doing this season is far more impressive than any of the already ranked and/or listed prospects IMO.

Scoring at a .80g per game clip on a terrible team with little to no help?

 

[Fireonk]

What is the spirit of the poll? I look at it as who will be the best player for the Rangers over the course of his career. To me, at least right now, I believe Othmann will have a better Rangers career than Kravtsov.

And I view the poll as who generally speaking has the highest value (whether in trade or a complete redraft.)

So of course there are going to be some wildly different view points when people are coming at this from multiple different angles.

 

[nyr2k2]

I think this board has dramatically oversold Kravtsov's issues because of being scarred by Lias and because, as fans, the natural inclination is to back the team instead of blame it.

IDK about that. His ELC is about to expire at the end of the year, at which point he could theoretically choose to never sign with us again. Since signing his ELC, he has twice chosen (once by way of a contractual mechanism we offered, once directly in violation of the CBA) to leave the team and go home to Russia. Even the most optimistic regarding this situation should acknowledge there's a good chance the guy never plays a game for us, and that we don't get fair value for him. That all seems pretty serious, no? I mean his situation isn't exactly something you see every day. Even Puljujarvi, who people always point to as the "let's hope that's how it ends up!" scenario, saw his situation unfold quite a bit differently than VK.

A LOT of people here blamed Drury for this. How many posts were there that said (stupidly), "How could we keep Hajek over this guy?!?!" Seriously--Drury's tenure got off to a very rocky start and a lot of people were absolutely killing him over this. Of course there are others who blindly support the team, but there's a lot of middle ground, too. I would argue that most people place some element of blame on the team for how this was handled (I do; they should have moved this guy earlier if they had problems with him) but also blame Kravtsov for his response.

I was very outspoken for how the team handled Andersson's assignments and usage, and defended him up until the point that he quit on the team. At that point I felt he shouldered a ton of blame for behaving that way, but still maintained the team mishandled him. It doesn't need to be black or white.

 

[cwede]

Kravtsov, add Korczak

Krvatsov, and korzack

It's not fair to Korczak,
and i don't feel that way about (also not tall) Berard,
but with Korczak I get StCroix/Thomas/Bourque/Kristo/McColgan-aphobia,
a fear that he wont make it at the highest level..

 

[NYR425]

Othmann add Cuylie

 

[mas0764]

IDK about that. His ELC is about to expire at the end of the year, at which point he could theoretically choose to never sign with us again. Since signing his ELC, he has twice chosen (once by way of a contractual mechanism we offered, once directly in violation of the CBA) to leave the team and go home to Russia. Even the most optimistic regarding this situation should acknowledge there's a good chance the guy never plays a game for us, and that we don't get fair value for him. That all seems pretty serious, no? I mean his situation isn't exactly something you see every day. Even Puljujarvi, who people always point to as the "let's hope that's how it ends up!" scenario, saw his situation unfold quite a bit differently than VK.

A LOT of people here blamed Drury for this. How many posts were there that said (stupidly), "How could we keep Hajek over this guy?!?!" Seriously--Drury's tenure got off to a very rocky start and a lot of people were absolutely killing him over this. Of course there are others who blindly support the team, but there's a lot of middle ground, too. I would argue that most people place some element of blame on the team for how this was handled (I do; they should have moved this guy earlier if they had problems with him) but also blame Kravtsov for his response.

I was very outspoken for how the team handled Andersson's assignments and usage, and defended him up until the point that he quit on the team. At that point I felt he shouldered a ton of blame for behaving that way, but still maintained the team mishandled him. It doesn't need to be black or white.

It's definitely a very serious situation and I never implied it wasn't, but I feel like the middle ground here is to say, Yes, Kravtsov acted immaturely and yes he should have handled it differently, but that doesn't make him irredeemable and that the team should take an inviting and forgiving approach to him.

I absolutely blame the team as well as Kravtsov, but when you say that, you get an army of posters who insist the team did nothing wrong and should not have done anything differently and it's all on Kravtsov.

"If he had just behaved he'd still be here." Yeah, and if the team had just waived Hajek and scratched Hunt he'd still be here too.

 

[NYR425]

Question for everyone voting for Kravtsov here, if Rangers were to trade Kravtsov or Othmann right now who would bring back the better return? In my mind that is the better prospect

 

[mas0764]

If I were another team I would want Kravtsov more than I would want Othmann.

I would also try to leverage the Rangers' situation and pay less for Kravtsov.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

So much misinfo here lmao

Nice try. Debate the value of the player, warts included. Fine. But you can't point to a single thing I've said that's untrue, because it isn't.

 

[cwede]

So much misinfo here lmao

I think this board has dramatically oversold Kravtsov's issues because of being scarred by Lias and because, as fans, the natural inclination is to back the team instead of blame it.

IDK about that. His ELC is about to expire at the end of the year, at which point he could theoretically choose to never sign with us again. Since signing his ELC, he has twice chosen (once by way of a contractual mechanism we offered, once directly in violation of the CBA) to leave the team and go home to Russia. Even the most optimistic regarding this situation should acknowledge there's a good chance the guy never plays a game for us, and that we don't get fair value for him. That all seems pretty serious, no? I mean his situation isn't exactly something you see every day. Even Puljujarvi, who people always point to as the "let's hope that's how it ends up!" scenario, saw his situation unfold quite a bit differently than VK.

A LOT of people here blamed Drury for this. How many posts were there that said (stupidly), "How could we keep Hajek over this guy?!?!" Seriously--Drury's tenure got off to a very rocky start and a lot of people were absolutely killing him over this. Of course there are others who blindly support the team, but there's a lot of middle ground, too. I would argue that most people place some element of blame on the team for how this was handled (I do; they should have moved this guy earlier if they had problems with him) but also blame Kravtsov for his response.

I was very outspoken for how the team handled Andersson's assignments and usage, and defended him up until the point that he quit on the team. At that point I felt he shouldered a ton of blame for behaving that way, but still maintained the team mishandled him. It doesn't need to be black or white.

I don't totally forgive Krav, or certainly Lias,
[... or Drury, given his GM aspirations, for playing snarky "bad cop" w Krav, seasons back]
but the reveal (was it by Carp?) that Bobrov had mis-set both kids' expectations about the team's intentions re their career arc (ie fast-track to NHL) does help explain their mind-set

and i for one won't remove Krav from my top 5 until he, or the team, formally end the possibility of rejoining
I liked his game last spring, and trust Coach Turk to draw out his best
- imagine (I do) the beast Krav might be today if he had the minutes Gauthier has had

and i don't fault the team re demoting Krav, or Jones, over Hajek, as the new staff began the season, given the short-term waiver risks
it's a long season, and everyone who deserves it, gets their shot - as seen with Gauth, Hajek and now Jones

 

[nyr2k2]

It's not fair to Korczak,
and i don't feel that way about (also not tall) Berard,
but with Korczak I get StCroix/Thomas/Bourque/Kristo/McColgan-aphobia,
a fear that he wont make it at the highest level..

I do like Korczak and was really optimistic about him earlier in the season, but in general I feel like his year has been "mostly good" but nothing more. Totally understand the vibes you're getting as I could seem him just as easily shuttling between the AHL/ECHL as playing in the NHL. In that sense he reminds me of Brad Morrison, if anyone remembers him.

 

[nyr2k2]

For all the talk about Kravtsov being punished or unfairly ignored in the polls, if he wins here he's fourth in our rankings behind:

1) A young defenseman, picked in round one, who set all kinds of records in Sweden and was extremely highly regarded by, like, everyone, coming into the season
2) Another defender, also picked in round one, who looks like a future stud having a very good rookie season
3) A young defenseman whose stock rose perhaps more than anyone else's over the past couple seasons, who was having a great rookie campaign in the AHL

I mean...is it really that crazy to have him fourth behind those guys? Sure, had the whole "walking away" thing never happened, he's almost certainly one or two--although as we've seen with Kakko and Lafreniere, it's no given that you just step right in and produce, and maybe there'd be different concerns with him. If anything is being overblown, it's the degree to which people are shunning Kravtsov. He's going to be fourth! 2-3 spots lower than he would be otherwise. Big f***ing deal. And if he somehow loses out here to Othmann--well then he's losing out to another first round pick who also happens to be having an amazing year contributing to half of his team's goals.

Much ado about nothing, IMO.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

It's not fair to Korczak,
and i don't feel that way about (also not tall) Berard,
but with Korczak I get StCroix/Thomas/Bourque/Kristo/McColgan-aphobia,
a fear that he wont make it at the highest level..

Here's a list of players the same size or shorted than Ryder Korczak on draft day from just the 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012 drafts:

Matt Duchene
Marcus Johansson
Kyle Palmieri
Tomáš Tatar
Cody Eakin
Casey Cizikas
Mike Hoffman
Erik Haula
Jeff Skinner
Jaden Schwartz
Eveny Kuznetsov
Calle Jarnkrok
Jason Zucker
Bryan Rust
Joonas Donskoi
Jesper Fast
Phillip Danault
Vladislav Namestnikov
Nikita Kucherov
Vincent Trocheck
Blake Coleman
Andrew Shaw
Teuvo Teräväinen
Brock McGinn
Connor Brown

If he doesn't make it in the NHL, it won't be because of his size. It will be because he simply didn't develop as we had hoped.

 

[mas0764]

For all the talk about Kravtsov being punished or unfairly ignored in the polls, if he wins here he's fourth in our rankings behind:

1) A young defenseman, picked in round one, who set all kinds of records in Sweden and was extremely highly regarded by, like, everyone, coming into the season
2) Another defender, also picked in round one, who looks like a future stud having a very good rookie season
3) A young defenseman whose stock rose perhaps more than anyone else's over the past couple seasons, who was having a great rookie campaign in the AHL

I mean...is it really that crazy to have him fourth behind those guys? Sure, had the whole "walking away" thing never happened, he's almost certainly one or two--although as we've seen with Kakko and Lafreniere, it's no given that you just step right in and produce, and maybe there'd be different concerns with him. If anything is being overblown, it's the degree to which people are shunning Kravtsov. He's going to be fourth! 2-3 spots lower than he would be otherwise. Big f***ing deal. And if he somehow loses out here to Othmann--well then he's losing out to another first round pick who also happens to be having an amazing year contributing to half of his team's goals.

Much ado about nothing, IMO.

I wasn't really bitching about him not being #1, I'm saying any farther drop and it's punitive.

 

[kovazub94]

Teams can and do take character into account when drafting players. I don't see why posters can't do the same in a prospect poll, if they so choose. Shit character and shit work ethic is going to push a player down my personal rankings, no matter the talent level.

This.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I wasn't really bitching about him not being #1, I'm saying any farther drop and it's punitive.

I don't think it is.

It's not insane to consider Othmann or Berard better prospects at this point. Beyond that, I would agree with you.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Voted Othmann add Cuylle

 

[UnSandvich]

Ultimately, Othmann vs Kravtsov TO ME comes down to which factor you think is more likely to keep the player from consistently playing in the Top 6 of a given team during their career, Othmann’s skating or Kravtov’s character concerns. And to me, it’s the skating

 

[CupSeeker]

So much misinfo here lmao

Othmann is more likely to be an all star for the Rangers than Kravtsov AINEC. He is the better prospect. Krav is the better prospect in the KHL.

 

[huerter]

Add whoever Kreiderman has the biggest urge to stalk.

 

[Savant]

Voted Berard because I refuse to vote for Othmann over Kravtsov, and I am abstaining from Kravtsov.

Hoping Rangers sell high on Othmann before teams realize he can’t skate.

add Cuylle