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Confirmed with Link: Rangers name Alain Vigneault head coach - Part II

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GAGLine said:
Last year's team was overall much better at playing within Tort's system. This year's team wasn't as good at it and Torts didn't make the necessary adjustments.
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What is this statement based upon? That team won one more playoff round. Is that the basis?


GAGLine said:
That's just not true. Every coach employs their own strategies and those stategies can vary much more than you think.
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I disagree. I believe there is far less variation in coaching strategy than you do.

GAGLine said:
If you are watching the finals, just watch how boston plays in their own zone. They pressure the points more than we do. They use the middle of the ice much more than we do. They have much better breakouts than we do. We haven't had an effective transition game in years. We generate almost all of our offense off the forecheck. Because we have no transition game, we struggle with our offensive zone entries and have to dump and chase a lot.
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The Rangers have no transition game primarily because their defensive personnel does not lend itself to that strategy and because their forwards have far less puck possession abilities than Boston. They are not as gifted offensively. The Rangers depend on Lundqvist and a stingy defense.


GAGLine said:
When I watch our team, I see where the problems are and I judge the coach based on how he adjusts to those problems.
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These are the types of statements that I have so many problems with. What you are saying is that you know how to fix the Rangers issues but that Torts couldn't figure this simple concept out. This also means that you believe that you would be a better coach of the Rangers than Torts. I find that to be absurd beyond belief.

GAGLine said:
How many times did we get trapped in our own zone for long stretches this year? Time and time again the puck would go around to the half-boards and the other team would easily beat us to the puck. The points were almost always open. We played very passively in the defensive zone.

Torts did nothing to address this problem. His only solution seemed to be to tell his players to play better. Torey Krug killed us in the boston series. Why didn't we have someone in his face every time he got the puck?
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Again, you are clearly stating that you would have been a better coach than Torts because you know the problems and you have the answers.

GAGLine said:
Torts came in with the mantra of "Safe is death", yet for 4 years we played the safest system imaginable in front of one of the best goaltenders in the league. As long as it was working, fine, but it wasn't working this year. It was time for a change and Torts didn't seem like he was willing to change.
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Why didn't it work this year? If you believe that, do you believe they would have beaten Boston with a better coach? Do you believe they would have won the Cup with a better coach?

Since Torts is gone, you must believe they will go further than Torts ever took them. I know that is a possibility. I also realize they could miss the playoffs next year. That would be an impossible scenario to you because they just instantly improved by losing Torts.
 
Lots of tension here today. Even the funny man is getting involved.

To change it up a little, I am excited for AV pressers. A much needed change. Pressers are now about hockey instead of politics and rhetoric.
 
-31- said:
"I'd like to see if this comes out or if its true:" - Seems like abev is speculating.
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I am actually not speculating - I just cant present it as truth. ;) I guess we'll wait and see if A) this comes out publicly or B) Mark Messier decides that the Rangers organization isn't the place he'd like to be.
 
A thread about the signing of Vigneault turns into a discussion of Kreider's shot.

Kreider has an above average shot, and the discussion of such belongs in a 'Kreider's Shot' thread.
Kidding, but yeah, Kreider has a really good shot. We might get to see it more this season, I sincerely hope.
 
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trilobyte said:
A thread about the signing of Vigneault turns into a discussion of Kreider's shot.

Kreider has an above average shot, and the discussion of such belongs in a 'Kreider's Shot' thread.
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Yeah, keep it on topic, folks. If you want to talk about Kreider, make a thread.
 
chosen said:
What is this statement based upon? That team won one more playoff round. Is that the basis?
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How many times do I need to explain this? Do you actually watch the team play, or just look at the results the next morning?

It's based on how the team played in that system. The results are the results. They may have been better with a different coach. They may have been worse. The bottom line is that the team wasn't executing the system as well as they had the year before and Torts didn't adapt to it.
 
JCresty said:
Lots of tension here today. Even the funny man is getting involved.

To change it up a little, I am excited for AV pressers. A much needed change. Pressers are now about hockey instead of politics and rhetoric.
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Are you sure? There does appear that someone in upper management is hellishly paranoid. The unease at media functions and the 'PR guard' didn't start with Torts.
 
GAGLine said:
How many times do I need to explain this? Do you actually watch the team play, or just look at the results the next morning?

It's based on how the team played in that system. The results are the results. They may have been better with a different coach. They may have been worse. The bottom line is that the team wasn't executing the system as well as they had the year before and Torts didn't adapt to it.
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I was unaware that we had the same team as the year before and thus expected the same performance.
 
Jonathan. said:
I was unaware that we had the same team as the year before and thus expected the same performance.
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Did I say we did? The team changed. The new team wasn't as effective in the same system. Torts refused to tweak his system to accomodate the new team.

You can put all the blame on the players for not effectively playing within that system if you want. That's your prerogative. But IMO Torts is equally culpable for not trying to meet the players half way.
 
GAGLine said:
How many times do I need to explain this? Do you actually watch the team play, or just look at the results the next morning?

It's based on how the team played in that system. The results are the results. They may have been better with a different coach. They may have been worse. The bottom line is that the team wasn't executing the system as well as they had the year before and Torts didn't adapt to it.
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You chose to not answer my question. You said the Rangers did not adapt to a problem that you know how to fix. Do you really think you would be a better strategist than Torts?
 
chosen said:
You chose to not answer my question. You said the Rangers did not adapt to a problem that you know how to fix. Do you really think you would be a better strategist than Torts?
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I didn't say Torts didn't know how to fix it. I said he DIDN'T fix it.

And never did I say that I have all the answers. I'm giving my opinions. Try to remember that.

Have you never commented on a move Sather has made and called it stupid? Are you better at evaluating players than Sather is?

I've made my point. I'm not going to keep repeating it, particularly when you'd rather argue things that I never said.
 
abev said:
I am actually not speculating - I just cant present it as truth. ;) I guess we'll wait and see if A) this comes out publicly or B) Mark Messier decides that the Rangers organization isn't the place he'd like to be.
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I seriously cannot imagine that is true, or at least it is a distortion of events. It's too perfectly designed to make everyone involved look bad, even Leetch

I can see if something like during Messier's interview he expressed an interest in bringing in his own guys and Sather said he preferred more more experience, but that it was Messier's to lose and he lost it seems stupid and ********
 
Seriously people? There are plenty of times where it is easier to identify issues from outside a situation than inside. Saying you know problems and have identified solutions is not at all the same thing as saying you would be good as implementing those solutions. There is a reason why consulting is such a lucrative business.

It's an indictment on Tortorella that he didn't adapt to a different roster. But it isn't surprising. Who was it who said that one of the hardest things in sports is to go into a halftime, as a coach, of a Super Bowl and throw out the strategy that got you there, because it isn't working anymore. Tortorellas situation was a microcosm of that. And ultimately, it cost him his job.
 
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