- Aug 5, 2010
- 13,882
- 9,514
Post-Game Talk: Rangers @ Capitals - 03/28/18
- Thread starter Krams
- Start date
- Status
HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
Actually looking for an honest answer, not trying to be antagonistic - but how are people rationalizing LA's team worst CF % and SCF % rate to say he had a good game?
Inferno
Registered User
There were like 2 or 3 shifts they got buried in their zone giving up a ton of shots. That definitely crushed his numbers.
He seems to be focusing on the dzone more than the ozone.
Eye test thing to me.
Larrybiv
We're CLEAN, we PROMISE!
I didn't really mean "Poor Hank" as in....."poor Hank".
I meant it as in......"poor Hank". Know what I mean?
Edit: You know, Hank will NEVER be poor. Not unless he gambles. I do believe he is gambling with his life, staying on this team instead of pursuing the cup elsewhere. But hey, he signed a contract and apparently is ONE player that wants to fulfill it, good or bad. A contract is supposed to be from beginning to end. Right?
Larrybiv
We're CLEAN, we PROMISE!
Funny you should mention that, as I were thinking the same while typing my post. Hmm, maybe AV didn't have a choice to play him there?
.Maybe AV has too many other choices now? 
Larrybiv
We're CLEAN, we PROMISE!
Yeah, me too. I didn't notice that he did anything "bad", and I think I remember him breaking up some plays defensively. Sometimes those "advanced stats" kind of crap can be very misleading. I'm sorry, I am like you.....I see what I see, whether it's too little, or too much.....I'm not sure.
silverfish
got perma'd
There's nothing misleading about the metrics themselves. Your beef lies with the analysis of metrics. It's an important distinction.
It is fact that during 5v5 play yesterday:
With Lias Andersson on the ice, the Rangers were outattempted 17-4.
Without Lias Andersson on the ice, the Rangers outattempted the Caps 36-29.
How one chooses to interpret those facts, however, is up to them. You can choose to ignore, or use.
GregSirico
KakkoSZN
He's all but said that actually. At this point in his life, retiring as a Ranger / # retired / HOF all w/ 1 team > chasing a ring. Things could change down the road but that's his stance now.
Paulie Walnutz
HFNYR JUST AS SOFT AS NYR
- Oct 1, 2008
- 11,141
- 9,454
And the Penguins are the “luckiest team ever” to win back to back Cups, something that hasn’t been done in 20 years.
eco's bones
Registered User
That's a canard. The average per game power play ice time for Rangers players this year (from NHL. com for all Rangers players for 2017-2018):
1. Shattenkirk 3:31
2. Zibanejad 3:03
3. Zuccarello 2:48
4. Buchnevich 2:43
5. Kreider 2:37
6. Namestnikov 2:17
7. Miller 2:12
8. Nash 2:11
9. McDonagh 2:09
10. DeAngelo 1:55
11. Spooner 1:50
12. Vesey 1:29
13. Lettieri 1:28
14. Desharnais 1:28
15. Gilmour 1:27
16. Skjei 1:10
17. Hayes 1:05
18. Pionk 1:02
After which the next highest player is 0:11--so I didn't continue though I'll note that both Grabner and Fast are 0:03. Vesey is 12th but there's literally no difference between 12 and 15. He's in with the likes of Lettieri, Desharnais and Gilmour. As well some of Vesey's power play time is probably a product of his being the big body replacement for Kreider when Chris was out with his blood clot issue. AV could have used Kevin Hayes more I suppose. The two he almost never used were Fast and Grabner.....but Vesey's down the list of power play time recipients. It doesn't support your argument and you might not like it but that's just a fact.
haveandare
Registered User
Yeah it drove me nuts that we had like 8 minutes of PP and didn’t put either out.
Andersson’s game in particular seems pretty perfectly tailored to play down low on the PP.
Both made solid defensive plays imo, Chytil a few more than Lias but Lias made a huge one that probabaly saved a goal.
Vinny DeAngelo
Jimmy Easy to defend
You’re not adjusting for sample size. You have an argue based on wrong statistics
Vinny DeAngelo
Jimmy Easy to defend
haveandare
Registered User
I mean, they didn’t get Crosby and Malkin through anything but blind luck and they were a huge part of why they were able to win.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
The term "advanced stats" is a misnomer in most instances. A lot of the popular ones are essentially just goal/shot differential and predictions based on that. "Shots" as a statistic is misleading, too, because it's actually only shots on goal. Corsi is all shots taken, and is really what should be used as "Shots" in general, e.g. shown on the score box during a broadcast. The name Corsi makes it sound strange, but people have been judging team performances by shots for...I don't know, whenever they started tracking and displaying shot totals on jumbotrons lol.
Although re: Lias, I try not to draw many conclusions from a 1-game sample size, if any at all.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
- 24,357
Those guys 5-on-4 Pts/60:
1. Shattenkirk 3:31 - 4.30
2. Zibanejad 3:03 - 6.26
3. Zuccarello 2:48 - 3.90
4. Buchnevich 2:43 - 5.40
5. Kreider 2:37 - 4.65
6. Namestnikov 2:17 - 3.83
7. Miller 2:12 - 5.65
8. Nash 2:11 - 2.58
9. McDonagh 2:09 - 5.17
10. DeAngelo 1:55 - 5.86
11. Spooner 1:50 - 3.21
12. Vesey 1:29 - 1.15
13. Lettieri 1:28 - 2.14
14. Desharnais 1:28 - 4.25
15. Gilmour 1:27 - 1.84
16. Skjei 1:10 - 2.14
17. Hayes 1:05 - 5.06
18. Pionk 1:02 - 17.03
Glen Sathers Cigar
Sather 4 Ever
We have literally zero idea about how supportive Hank is.
All it takes is him to simply look at a teammate and fans think he's being a dick to them. Obviously the glaring has happened in the past, but not every interaction with a teammate is Hank being crappy to them, which seems to be the way people think now.
What a hypersensitive fan could see with Hank looking animated and pointing while yapping at Skjei as Hank being a arrogant diva could literally be Hank saying "Great play, way to body that guy out and tie up his stick, if they try that again watch out for the trailer...keep it up!"
Or Hank screaming and being super pissed after a goal doesn't mean it's towards a teammate, actually I'd say the overwhelming majority of the time it's Hank yelling at himself.
The projecting that goes on with fans and Lundqvist is ridiculous at times. If anything I think Hank has seemed more relaxed with far less glaring after goals than before the trade deadline.
Fitzy
Very Stable Genius
- Jan 29, 2009
- 36,413
- 24,271
I dont know why people try to use 1-2 game Corsi numbers as an indication of anything. Most of the problems assosiated with Corsi analysis are believed to be largely random errors- that is they will tend to cancel out over a larger sample size. The exception being things like shot quality variation in team style. Having Corsi calculated on 15 shots total really tells us nothing at all.
There's no way he'd saying that to his teammates. There's a thing body language that's a good predictor of how thinks and speaks.
I rationalize Lias having a poor fancy stats game by saying he's only played 2 goddamn NHL games ever not to mention if there ever was a small sample size, this is a goddamn small sample size.
The only conclusion you can draw about it is that he had a rough night on the side of shot attempts for/against.
The only conclusion you can draw about it is that he had a rough night on the side of shot attempts for/against.
eco's bones
Registered User
It's per game average---not total time on ice for the entire season. He still lags way behind most of our other forwards. For instance since Namestnikov showed up AV has shown predilection towards Namestnikov over Vesey. His 2:17 avg. is basically the same that Miller 2:12 was getting. Spooner's 1:50 is not all that far off Nash's 2:12. He's been the 7th forward option behind Zibanejad, Zuccarello, Buchnevich, Kreider, Miller/Namestnikov and Nash/Spooner and Hayes only started getting power play time about 5-6 weeks ago and is catching up with him. Better question is take Vesey's power play time away and who are you going to give it to? Zibanejad, Zuccarello, Buchnevich and Kreider are already getting the most. Do you just leave those guys out on the ice for entire power plays?
Really I don't know what people want but I think it's an unfair criticism. IMO Vesey's not been very productive on the power play but Nash wasn't very good either and he got even more power play time. If we're looking at power play production from our forwards only Z-bad, Zucc, Buchnevich, Kreider and Miller produced anything for us this year but even they have to come off the ice sooner or later. The point of all the above though shows that Vesey isn't like some mainstay on our powerplay. It's just not true.
Paulie Walnutz
HFNYR JUST AS SOFT AS NYR
- Oct 1, 2008
- 11,141
- 9,454
With all due respect, this is why I hate coming here sometimes. The guy’s played 2 NHL games, how can you make that claim? We don’t know if he’s going to be Patrice Bergeron or Blair Betts.
HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
I definitely understand this. I mean I have run regressions myself and Corsi-close has been much more predictive than raw totals anyway. But you could make the exact same argument about watching a player and judging his one game performance on observations from that one sample. The disconnect to me is evaluating one game performances on a subjective/"eye test" level while also glossing over one game metrics. Could be evidence of some "prospect optimism bias", though Inferno's point is certainly well taken that players can still show good glimpses/skills even in bad situations.
HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
This is obviously fair but not my point. I disagree with the idea that LA "had a good game."
They don't win any of those cups without the two of them. We saw what happened when Malkin had an off year... they couldn't get past the first round. Without even one of them they are a slightly above average team at best. Those two make anyone playing alongside them look twice better than they really are
- Status
Latest posts
-
Injury Report: 2024-2025 Injury thread | HF’s Longest Thread Just Got Longer- Latest: SirLoinOfCloth
-
HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #91: 2025 Trade Deadline edition- Latest: Nico Cauzuki
-
-
-
