Confirmed with Link: Rangers buy out Shattenkirk

[Deleted member 23124]

No, but he came to his first camp out of shape, then injured his knee and hasn't been anything more than a mediocre bottom-4 dman. His buyout was also a single move that the team could make to get under the cap. Smith or Staal, while definitely more deserving of buyouts in my mind, wouldn't get us under the cap. So, I think the choice the front office had to make boiled down to a couple options:
1) Buyout Shattenkirk
2) Buyout both Staal AND Smith
3) Buyout one of Staal/Smith AND move another ~$2M in cap
Option 3 is the most preferable from my standpoint, but that all depends on what other teams are offering. I don't think the front office wanted to part with assets to move a contract, or take pennies on the dollar for Kreider while dealing from a position of reduced leverage.

I think buying out The Kirk was Gorton's last option.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Kreider is an elite skater...both of those guys were always slow.

Even if kreider slows down considerably he will still be a league average skater.

That's the difference

its funny, seems kreider is viewed league wide much differently than most here see him. we watch him alot.

hes seen as a big strong, physical, net front presence guy who plays it rugged and gritty.

i see him as a fast straight ahead skater who doesnt seem to understand where to be and what to do when he gets there far too often.

 

[Edge]

He's polarizing here, lol.

I will say that I don't think the potential return for Kreider is going to blow anyone's socks off.

I think it could be a very good return, depending on one's perspective, but it's not going to be a first, a top prospect, and another higher-end asset. It'll more or less be in line with the Hayes deal, maybe a slight bump.

 

[Levitate]

its funny, seems kreider is viewed league wide much differently than most here see him. we watch him alot.

hes seen as a big strong, physical, net front presence guy who plays it rugged and gritty.

i see him as a fast straight ahead skater who doesnt seem to understand where to be and what to do when he gets there far too often.

Kreider is literally one of the most productive NHLers in front of the net. He's like second only to Simmonds in goals scored from in front of the net in the past X number of years or whatever they use when showing that stat.

Basically, he IS an excellent net front presence player and has been one of the best in the league without argument.

His "problem" is people always expect him to be more than that and think that his physical abilities equal tons of natural talent that he's just not using. He is what he is, he has his good stretches and bad, he is excellent at driving the play but doesn't quite have the natural skill and finish to be elite points-wise

 

[will1066]

I will say that I don't think the potential return for Kreider is going to blow anyone's socks off.

I think it could be a very good return, depending on one's perspective, but it's not going to be a first, a top prospect, and another higher-end asset. It'll more or less be in line with the Hayes deal, maybe a slight bump.

Generally speaking, we've seen in the last couple of years, the returns on supposed marquee players haven't been as good as historically was.

 

[haveandare]

If we get a mid first and a B prospect for Kreider I can live with that, or downgrade the pick and upgrade the prospect. Something in that ballpark is most likely I'd think. Whoever gets him is almost certainly going to have to give him a dicey contract after.

In the very unlikely case he'd take shorter term, like 4 years or so I'd love to keep him but I don't expect that really.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Kreider is literally one of the most productive NHLers in front of the net. He's like second only to Simmonds in goals scored from in front of the net in the past X number of years or whatever they use when showing that stat.

Basically, he IS an excellent net front presence player and has been one of the best in the league without argument.

His "problem" is people always expect him to be more than that and think that his physical abilities equal tons of natural talent that he's just not using. He is what he is, he has his good stretches and bad, he is excellent at driving the play but doesn't quite have the natural skill and finish to be elite points-wise

agreed. he's the same guy he always was.

he just lacks hockey iq. he isnt intuitive enough. he doest feel the game.

if he did, he would be an elite player.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Stop muddying my opinion with your facts.

They were just alternative facts.....

 

[NYRFANMANI]

There are very, very good young players who are signed to pretty expensive deals who may become available for a myriad of reasons.

Oh, and you are willing to give up a Miller or Lundkvist + much more, without even having seen them play for the big club, for some "very, very good young player who is signed to a pretty expensive deal"? I'm sorry but this doesn't make sense whatsoever. Provide some names and we'll check out what they would realistically cost. Pray tell, what does a pretty expensive deal for a very, very good young player look like? The way you phrase it, you make it sound extraordinary that a very, very good young player has a pretty expensive contract.

Keep our own young guys and see what they are. Again, we don't have much left to trade away anyhow.

Also there was literally no other way, we were going to be cap strung no matter who we had bought out. We'll have to endure what is to come.

 

[True Blue]

I can easily see gms comparing Kreider to Lucic and Simmonds and saying no thank you.

There are absolutely no similarities

 

[Crease]

There are absolutely no similarities

Agree.

 

[True Blue]

agreed. he's the same guy he always was.

he just lacks hockey iq. he isnt intuitive enough. he doest feel the game.

if he did, he would be an elite player.

You make him sound like a dime a dozen player. What he IS is a legit top line LW with size, a shot and speed to boost. He is one of the best if not the best net front presence player in the league. You should only hope that most of your first round forwards become Kreider.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Kreider will bring back what every standard good rental at the deadline does. A first and some sort of decent/good prospect

Nothing more, he’s not bringing back anything earth shattering

That time has passed

 

[will1066]

The window has closed. But not for Hank.

 

[Levitate]

agreed. he's the same guy he always was.

he just lacks hockey iq. he isnt intuitive enough. he doest feel the game.

if he did, he would be an elite player.

Maybe, I don't think he has the raw talent to be "elite" but he could be a star player. I guess it depends on how you define such terms. That "lack of hockey iq" is what holds back many many players though, Kreider isn't particularly unusual in that regard. He has enough to be a very good player in this league, maybe if he was a little bit smarter in certain ways he'd be a 70 point player, but it's kind of pointless to speculate in the end

 

[offdacrossbar]

You make him sound like a dime a dozen player. What he IS is a legit top line LW with size, a shot and speed to boost. He is one of the best if not the best net front presence player in the league. You should only hope that most of your first round forwards become Kreider.

and yet hes a mid 50 point player.

 

[Thirty One]

and yet hes a mid 50 point player.

And there were 99 forwards who hit 50 points last season. They're not super easy to find.

 

[McRanger]

and yet hes a mid 50 point player.

Which makes him a legit top line LW, which is exactly how TB described him.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Which makes him a legit top line LW, which is exactly how TB described him.

and never said he wasnt just that

i said hes not sure where to go or what to do when he ventures away from the net front and that's keeping him from 70 points and true "special player" status.

I'm actually happy hes still here.

 

[will1066]

With Kreider, it's always MOAR. You get enamored with his physical abilities and think those will translate to production. To this day, he doesn't know how to control his physicality or use it to his advantage except in front of the net. He also lacks dimension, which you need in order to be a truly elite player, a super-elite star in this league. Have you ever seen Kreider deke a goalie or an opposing player out? No. He has no moves. He has to bum rush. He has a whip of a shot, and he makes really good assist passes. But it's not an Ovi-level shot, and he only fine-tuned it last year, scoring a bunch off the rush down the left side. And he's not a pure playmaker. So, he's a tweener, resulting in 50-point years.

 

[Zibanejbread]

Poor Shattenkirk. Takes a discount to sign with his childhood team, gets bought out, and then his thread gets overtaken by a Kreider discussion. He can't catch a break anywhere.

 

[will1066]

Poor Shattenkirk. Takes a discount to sign with his childhood team, gets bought out, and then his thread gets overtaken by a Kreider discussion. He can't catch a break anywhere.

Except to his knee. Anyway, it's sad times in New Rochelle.

 

[Chaels Arms]

No. Toronto will be using LTIR and LTIR cap space can't be used to pay performance bonuses. Buyouts have no impact on that. We won't be using LTIR, so whatever unused cap space we have at the end of the year will go toward paying bonuses.

True, you're right. I confused buyout with LTIR. Thank you.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Kreider is literally one of the most productive NHLers in front of the net. He's like second only to Simmonds in goals scored from in front of the net in the past X number of years or whatever they use when showing that stat.

Basically, he IS an excellent net front presence player and has been one of the best in the league without argument.

His "problem" is people always expect him to be more than that and think that his physical abilities equal tons of natural talent that he's just not using. He is what he is, he has his good stretches and bad, he is excellent at driving the play but doesn't quite have the natural skill and finish to be elite points-wise

Well said. Kreider is very solid in front of the net, when he finds himself there.

For me, Kreider's problems stem from when he's anywhere but the front of the net. He doesn't have great hands/vision, but with his end to end speed and his size, there's no way games on end should be going by without him making an impact. It's been a motor/consistency thing with him since he came up, and it ain't changing now.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Poor Shattenkirk. Takes a discount to sign with his childhood team, gets bought out, and then his thread gets overtaken by a Kreider discussion. He can't catch a break anywhere.

He turned down a 7x7 deal from someone, Buffalo, I think. That's got to sting.

I'd have to try and find the article (paging @RangerBoy), but I'm pretty sure he was also quoted soon after he signed saying something like "I left years on the table, but if I perform well on this contract, I'll get an extension and it will be just like getting a 7 year deal." Again, just my rough recollection, but that has to royally suck for him, especially since he has a newborn and was, I imagine, looking forward to being close to his wife, new baby, and extended family when not on the road.