Proposal: Rangers-Avalanche

cwede

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Sep 1, 2010
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"Strome at half = 2.25 + elc Jones + NYR 2022 4th + 2023 3rd
for elc Justin Barron + Colorado 2022 3rd"

my friend,
i don't see any value or incentive for NYR at all
there is NO certainty Barron has any more value or stronger career than Jones

which leaves Strome +4th+3rd for a late 3rd
Why?
 

McJedi

Registered User
Apr 21, 2020
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You've posted that 3 times now.. We get it, you rather go with Newhook. I'm not sure I agree with he's far better than Strome, not yet at least, but hey, most people think of Strome as the guy traded from Edmonton. Either way, it wouldn't make sense to take time away from Newhook.

This trade doesn't really help NYR, either. We remove our 2c while still being in a great playoff position, and our right side is Fox, Trouba, Schneider. Seems like it doesn't help either side.
Frankly, I’m just happy I don’t need to read more stupid goalie trades for the Avs.

Kuemper and Frankie (backup G) have been the two best Avs players for the past several weeks. Goaltending is becoming a strength of the Avs.

rangers and Avs are not good trading partners. We’re both going for it this year. Should be trading with teams like Winnipeg or Ottawa or Buffalo. Teams that are clearly out of it.
 

bernmeister

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Jun 11, 2010
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"Strome at half = 2.25 + elc Jones + NYR 2022 4th + 2023 3rd
for elc Justin Barron + Colorado 2022 3rd"

my friend,
i don't see any value or incentive for NYR at all
there is NO certainty Barron has any more value or stronger career than Jones

which leaves Strome +4th+3rd for a late 3rd
Why?
my good friend and true one to us all, setting aside we get a 3rd now for 3rd nxt yr this is correct, but while yes, there is no certainty, there is subtle benefits to swap Jones for Barron. Need to emphasize this is less about crapshot of who will be better vs complementary fit.
We have real deal in Fox. Also ballpark comparable to Jones in Nils L, except Nils L is prob best shot of all our D. Barron is larger, already 6'2" 195 and possibly still growing at age 20. So w/Trouba gone sooner or later, and Schneid heir to 2RD, that leaves competition for 3RD. Would like to see Barron take that, eventually Robertson replacing Lindgren [moved for cap to keep Kakko, etc.] and Nils at 3RD. That gives balance of 3 lines, each one skating specialist and a physical emphasis guy.
Crapshoot, but if Jones does turn out to be the next Fox, let's minimize bite back in the ass factor by sending him to WC. And Barron looks good. Also, while small, given we are cap crushed until Trouba is gone and Panarin is re-signed for short term + less $, it is helpful that we get one more elc year out of Barron.
You are right, it is prob overpay. But let it not be said I can be generous.
Again, while broken nose + concussion is no joke that can't be rushed, it does prelim appear that Avs luck out and are ok as to urgent need to replace MacK, so this is not likely.
 

bernmeister

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Jun 11, 2010
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Rantanen is a much better center than Strome. No thanks.

AVs have experimented with Rants as the 1C/2C with great success. Newhook is expected to play 2C/3C after Kadri leaves for greater riches. Strome doesn’t provide any benefit and trading Barron as the future 2nd or 3rd line.

Do you know how to read? The OP said the trade was related to Mack's injury and rantanen is more than adequate so far playing centre.

The above bolds are not in dispute. Howev, in fairness, let us recognize that I did not take an F back. All of what I proposed was for Strome TO ADD to existing Avs F strength, presumably as a rental at min with inside track to extend if that was a fit, and was based on an assumption that while Strome obv can not offset loss of MacK which was believed by OP to be for an extended period of time, adding Strome would in fact partially defray vs this loss until MacK could return, at which pt he would be a positive add.
 

bernmeister

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Never seen a fan less interested in winning games than collecting lottery ticjets
I am interested in both winning games AND extending NYR window.
1. As to the immediate present, we are best served by getting to a core min and giving that youth max mins to accelerate their growth. Strome is not a discussion b'c we can't afford him, that is a mathematical fact. The only alternate there is to give up Kakko, LaF etc cheap for older Strome. Obv HUGE mistake, so no.
2. Going forward, elc youth w/upside = more flexibility over cap, etc, etc, etc, which clearly does not exist w/vet heavy roster. Also, TB and recently BOS are examples of a deep roster = a winning formula.
 

nightonthesun

Registered User
Sep 8, 2013
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No one wants Strome. He has close to no value.
It seems like NYR like him but as a trade piece he is not enticing. Even if you assume MacKinnon was going to miss the rest of this season, thats not the kind of player Colorado spends futures on, and Barron isn't prepared to be the kind of player NY trades a significant roster player for on their way to the playoffs.
 

jay from jersey

Registered User
Jan 30, 2008
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Gallant doesn’t even play the Barron we have enough, even though all he’s done when given his little game time has impressed....
Neither team would do this trade... especially at this juncture in the season... it makes absolutely no sense.
 

bernmeister

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Jun 11, 2010
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It seems like NYR like him but as a trade piece he is not enticing. Even if you assume MacKinnon was going to miss the rest of this season, thats not the kind of player Colorado spends futures on, and Barron isn't prepared to be the kind of player NY trades a significant roster player for on their way to the playoffs.

which is why I was looking at Barron for Jones w/Strome expiring rental as a sweetener
 

Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
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which is why I was looking at Barron for Jones w/Strome expiring rental as a sweetener
Why in the world would Colorado swap a big and mobile RHD for a small LHD? That makes absolutely no sense considering the makeup of Colorado's roster and prospect pool.

LHD is a position of strength, with Toews/Byram/Girard at the NHL level and Sean Behrens arguably being their best D prospect. Both Girard and Behrens are small puck-moving Dmen so Jones would obviously be redundant.

Conversely, at RHD Colorado aren't so deep given that Erik Johnson is aging and one year from UFA, and besides him there's no other RHD at the NHL level besides Makar. That makes Barron (and Helleson) extremely valuable to Colorado, given that he fills a clear organizational need, both in terms of position and as a complement to the LHD's given that he's big and they're small.

By doing the trade you're proposing, Colorado would be shooting themselves in the foot by trading a prospect in a position of need at the NHL level (RHD), to a position they're already well covered in (LHD).

With that said, I appreciate that you took the time to create a proposal involving Colorado as I always enjoy seeing new seeing new proposals, but I'd recommend that you take some time to scrutinize the Avs roster a bit more before persisting with defending this proposal.
 
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bernmeister

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Jun 11, 2010
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Why in the world would Colorado swap a big and mobile RHD for a small LHD? That makes absolutely no sense considering the makeup of Colorado's roster and prospect pool.

LHD is a position of strength, with Toews/Byram/Girard at the NHL level and Sean Behrens arguably being their best D prospect. Both Girard and Behrens are small puck-moving Dmen so Jones would obviously be redundant.

Conversely, at RHD Colorado aren't so deep given that Erik Johnson is aging and one year from UFA, and besides him there's no other RHD at the NHL level besides Makar. That makes Barron (and Helleson) extremely valuable to Colorado, given that he fills a clear organizational need, both in terms of position and as a complement to the LHD's given that he's big and they're small.

By doing the trade you're proposing, Colorado would be shooting themselves in the foot by trading a prospect in a position of need at the NHL level (RHD), to a position they're already well covered in (LHD).

With that said, I appreciate that you took the time to create a proposal involving Colorado as I always enjoy seeing new seeing new proposals, but I'd recommend that you take some time to scrutinize the Avs roster a bit more before persisting with defending this proposal.
1. Thank you for overall positive feedback.
2. Jones shoots left but plays either LD or RD. Also, Byram is ifffy going forward.
3. Core premise was that Strome = useful add b'c MacK out of commission several wks; this part is arguably true. The assumption following, not as much, due to fortuitous timing of All Star break and other factors: hence Avs suffering loss of MacK is enough games it is worth an add if reasonably priced as opposed to trying to resolve internally.
4. As a package I don't believe discounted Strome for the narrow upgrade of Jones into Barron was unreasonable, providing a useful add for now while still keeping a quality D prospect. I get how balance for all teams suggests need for QB style playmaking D, regardless of size, tho these tend to be smaller guys who are better skaters, as well as clear the crease studs. I get further ideal to have L-R balance. Welcome to the club, Rangers are a similar work in progress.

I consider your posts usually thoughtful, and welcome.
best,
bern
 

bernmeister

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Jun 11, 2010
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Drury doesn’t care what you think Bern be realistic
I don't care that he doesn't care. I'll stand on my positions, and should NYR mgmt go the other way and be wrong, I will throw it in their face ad infinitum. NY was wrong to do Ratelle + Park for Espo + Vadnais.
Also to do a yr + of Robatille for Mattias Norstrum [sp]
And more recently, JT Miller for Namest.

Although they get it more right than wrong, and they are my beloved team, I will not be silenced as to my views.
Avs may not be the fit as initially appeared on the surface, but Strome has to go. MATH does not allow for ANY variance on that.
YOU should be in my corner, for speaking the truth, and reminding the team that it works for the fans, without whom there is no support and no team. Some situations I agree are subjective opinion, but this one, not.
 

bernmeister

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Jun 11, 2010
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Good that means Rangers should extend him for 6 years at 4.5 since no one else will offer more
NO, pay attention peeps. MATH!!!!
ALL of Strome's 4.5 [w/other moves] goes to pay only 11.x+m increase we need just ONLY Zib + Fox increases. No Strome. No player X in lieu of Strome. Deal Strome now for picks only. PERIOD

Also, what is the idea of 6 yrs on a guy in his late 20s? NO NO NO
 

FoxysExpensiveNYDigs

Boo Nieves Truther
Feb 27, 2002
6,436
3,961
Colorado
NO, pay attention peeps. MATH!!!!
ALL of Strome's 4.5 [w/other moves] goes to pay only 11.x+m increase we need just ONLY Zib + Fox increases. No Strome. No player X in lieu of Strome. Deal Strome now for picks only. PERIOD

Also, what is the idea of 6 yrs on a guy in his late 20s? NO NO NO
No team in playoff position is going to trade Ryan Strome and play a severly disappointing Filip Chytil at 2C. Thats the kind of move that gets GMs fired. Especially after Dolan's temper tantrum last summer.
 

Anthony5967

Registered User
Dec 24, 2015
7,763
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Strong Island, NY
This is putrid for the NYR. Cough up a 60 point C that’s been very good here AND Jones for Barron? Barron is good but he isn’t a guy that would stand alone and net both guys. And late picks coming back? Come on. Avs fans saying they wouldn’t do this are out of their minds. Is Barron that much better of a prospect than Jones in their minds?
 

Vitto79

Registered User
May 24, 2008
27,549
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Sarnia
I don't care that he doesn't care. I'll stand on my positions, and should NYR mgmt go the other way and be wrong, I will throw it in their face ad infinitum. NY was wrong to do Ratelle + Park for Espo + Vadnais.
Also to do a yr + of Robatille for Mattias Norstrum [sp]
And more recently, JT Miller for Namest.

Although they get it more right than wrong, and they are my beloved team, I will not be silenced as to my views.
Avs may not be the fit as initially appeared on the surface, but Strome has to go. MATH does not allow for ANY variance on that.
YOU should be in my corner, for speaking the truth, and reminding the team that it works for the fans, without whom there is no support and no team. Some situations I agree are subjective opinion, but this one, not.

if you want Strome gone fine but it’s not going to be this year . He’s an own rental . Happens all the time

Who’s your magical fairy 2nd line C ?
If Strome takes 5 per they can make it work by moving Chytil, Georgiev , Nemeth

Kakko is getting bridged. Max 2.5 per x 2
 

Anthony5967

Registered User
Dec 24, 2015
7,763
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Strong Island, NY
No team in playoff position is going to trade Ryan Strome and play a severly disappointing Filip Chytil at 2C. Thats the kind of move that gets GMs fired. Especially after Dolan's temper tantrum last summer.
Not really a temper tantrum when the GM goes out and makes all these moves, bringing in winning vets to demonstrate what winning looks like, hiring a legit coach, and then churning out a team with 30 wins right now. He obviously felt they could be better.
 

Overrateprospects

Registered User
Dec 23, 2021
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No team in playoff position is going to trade Ryan Strome and play a severly disappointing Filip Chytil at 2C. Thats the kind of move that gets GMs fired. Especially after Dolan's temper tantrum last summer.
Not Chytil just put Kravstov in that spot. If you can’t get him just put Morgan Barron in that spot. It’s just that simple!!!!!
 

Groo

Registered User
May 11, 2013
6,381
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surfingarippleofevil
Oh no its a bern clone.
Perhaps he's only a disciple?
master-yoda-always-two-there-are.gif
 

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