Post-Game Talk: Rangers at Devils 10/19/13

[Fataldogg]

Fans love to overrate prospects. I remember with everyone thought Tomas Kloucek was going to save the franchise.

If you look at Kreider's draft class, he's been surpassed by two dozen of his peers at forward in both development and production. He's going to be 23 by the end of the season, most of which he'll probably spend in the minors.

McIlrath has been a disappointment, and he's injury prone. Staal made it to the NHL in two years. Del Zotto in one. This is the begiining of the fourth season in which McIlrath wasnt deserving of an NHL spot.

Skjei is good but he hasnt shown much. His ceiling was Bret Hedican, and he was a 4-7 guy his whole career. The guy never dominated at any level like McDonagh did in HS. Skjei is a long shot to make it as a top-4, let alone a star in the league.

Miller has a lot of promise, but lets be honest -- he's like Korpikoski. He'll never be more than a 3rd liner.

The rest? Look at Grachev, Fogarty, McColgan, MSC -- these guys stink.

There's nothing wrong with trading prospects, especially when they've hit a wall. Sather isnt the only GM who like reclamation projects.

You're not going to get scoring help by dangling Pyatt and Boyle. If Sather wants to improve his team and compete with Chicago and Boston and Pittsburgh, he's not going to do it with guys like taylor Pyatt and MZA playing in his top-6.

Couldn't agree more. McIlrath is already reminding me of the last significant draft mistake we made (I don't have to bring it up). I understand that it takes defense men longer to acclimate to the NHL, but this will be 3-4 seasons where he is not NHL ready. We drafted him for size AND that's pretty much it. In the new NHL, that's not enough.

We could have drafted Cam Fowler, who was available by the 10th overall spot. He's already amounted to more than we can ever expect from McIlrath. And don't get me started on passing up on Tarasenko. We could have had a young scoring winger with a ton of offensive upside and top notch talent. He's already shown flashes of brilliance and will likely be an impact player in his prime.

And we drafted McIlrath, who was being to Derian Hatcher in the best case scenario...

This isn't the clutch and grab error any more. The game is getting faster, and we drafted an untalented, big, tough guy to clear the crease in front of Lundqvist, and he can't even crack an NHL squad after 3-4 years.

 

[Championship*]

Cam Fowler sucks. Stop using him as an excuse. Tarasenko? Fine. But Fowler? He's been hot garbage.

 

[Fataldogg]

Cam Fowler sucks. Stop using him as an excuse. Tarasenko? Fine. But Fowler? He's been hot garbage.

He's played in the NHL.

Thus, he has been a bigger impact player than a player who has never played a game in the NHL.

Secondly, I bolded Tarasenko, because he would have been my preference and he was EXACTLY what this team needs.

I'm starting to believe McIlrath won't be in the NHL, period. What if he doesn't make it next season? You're going to go on 4-5 years without playing a game in the NHL? How many defense man drafted in the top-10 take 5 years to be NHL ready at an ENTRY level.

 

[Raspewtin]

McIlrath is injury prone? After that ONE knee hit he took? Dear lord, you people are ****ing ridiculous. When McIlrath breaks Lucic's face for running Nash, and guards Henrik's crease with his life, I don't want to hear any ****ing praise from you specific people. Go be a Blues fan or something.

 

[Raspewtin]

He's played in the NHL.

Thus, he has been a bigger impact player than a player who has never played a game in the NHL.

Secondly, I bolded Tarasenko, because he would have been my preference and he was EXACTLY what this team needs.

I'm starting to believe McIlrath won't be in the NHL, period. What if he doesn't make it next season? You're going to go on 4-5 years without playing a game in the NHL? How many defense man drafted in the top-10 take 5 years to be NHL ready at an ENTRY level.

McDonagh was 22 when he hit the NHL. Girardi was 23. McI is 21. Get over yourself.

 

[Championship*]

He's played in the NHL.

Thus, he has been a bigger impact player than a player who has never played a game in the NHL.

Secondly, I bolded Tarasenko, because he would have been my preference and he was EXACTLY what this team needs.

I'm starting to believe McIlrath won't be in the NHL, period. What if he doesn't make it next season? You're going to go on 4-5 years without playing a game in the NHL? How many defense man drafted in the top-10 take 5 years to be NHL ready at an ENTRY level.

He's played in the NHL poorly. That doesn't mean ****. He was rushed and its clear as day to see why he dropped on draft day. Impact? The only impact he's had other than his first year has been negative. McIlrath is playing well in the AHL. Plan from the beginning of the season has been to bring him up around December. He's been a pro for a little over a year. He's exactly what this team is missing and people have been lamenting about. Drafting Taresenko over McIlrath isn't why this team is ****** right now.

 

[Josh3217]

McIlrath is injury prone? After that ONE knee hit he took? Dear lord, you people are ****ing ridiculous. When McIlrath breaks Lucic's face for running Nash, and guards Henrik's crease with his life, I don't want to hear any ****ing praise from you specific people. Go be a Blues fan or something.

Lucic will beat McIlraths head in. Dylan is a tough kid but lets be real.

 

[Cake or Death]

i swear some of these posters only show up after a loss

Pretty much. 95 percent of people can't even manage 10 people in the business world, but everyone's an expert on how to coach and manage a pro sports team. Lundqvist has essentially been top 3 season after season, and people are advocating to trade him when he is struggling, his contract is set to expire, and his value is at its lowest? And then complain Sather makes knee jerk moves. I have wanted Sather gone for about 10 years, but the on ice product hasn't been too terribly bad post-lockout. Tonight's effort sucked, but I'm not gonna get too bent over it - I still had a pretty awesome day.

 

[Inferno]

It will be interesting near the trade deadline if this team is out of it...i wonder how many players are actually safe....

 

[Blue Regime]

Pretty much. 95 percent of people can't even manage 10 people in the business world, but everyone's an expert on how to coach and manage a pro sports team. Lundqvist has essentially been top 3 season after season, and people are advocating to trade him when he is struggling, his contract is set to expire, and his value is at its lowest? And then complain Sather makes knee jerk moves. I have wanted Sather gone for about 10 years, but the on ice product hasn't been too terribly bad post-lockout. Tonight's effort sucked, but I'm not gonna get too bent over it - I still had a pretty awesome day.

This entire board is so fickle, hence why I don't post much anymore. Any time a team wins 3 in a row there's threads popping up on the main board "[TEAM] WILL SURPRISE EVERYONE CALLING IT NOW!!" then they'll get smoked and all of a sudden the sky is falling. Or some rookie scores two points in his first game: "CALDER BOOK IT NOW", then he doesn't score for 2 games and he's a bust.

Thanks for reminding me how unbearable it is, definitely signing off now.

 

[Championship*]

It will be interesting near the trade deadline if this team is out of it...i wonder how many players are actually safe....

Stepan
McD
J. Moore
Hagelin

Those would be my keepers right now. Other than that, nobody is safe.

 

[Wolfpack21]

Let's say it's clear the rangers aren't making the playoffs by the trade deadline, what goalie prospects+ would you be willing to trade lundqvist for?

 

[Inferno]

Stepan
McD
J. Moore
Hagelin

Those would be my keepers right now. Other than that, nobody is safe.

Staal, McDonagh, Moore, Stepan, Hagelin, Nash, Kreider, Miller, Brassard, Fasth.

I'm not saying they are untouchable, i'm saying i wouldnt actively try to trade them.

Anyone else can and should be tradeable, and if you could get back younger assets, i would.

Dan Girardi, imho, could fetch a fortune. I'd move him. Top pairing defenseman with good contracts are damn near impossible to find. You'd have to think he's worth at least a first rounder and a top end prospect.

 

[Inferno]

Let's say it's clear the rangers aren't making the playoffs by the trade deadline, what goalie prospects+ would you be willing to trade lundqvist for?

i wouldnt trade lundqvist...not unless hes looking to make 8mil plus still after this ****show.

 

[Championship*]

Let's say it's clear the rangers aren't making the playoffs by the trade deadline, what goalie prospects+ would you be willing to trade lundqvist for?

Vasilevski. Gibson is another name, most likely tougher to get.

 

[Championship*]

Staal, McDonagh, Moore, Stepan, Hagelin, Nash, Kreider, Miller, Brassard, Fasth.

I'm not saying they are untouchable, i'm saying i wouldnt actively try to trade them.

Anyone else can and should be tradeable, and if you could get back younger assets, i would.

Dan Girardi, imho, could fetch a fortune. I'd move him. Top pairing defenseman with good contracts are damn near impossible to find. You'd have to think he's worth at least a first rounder and a top end prospect.

Purposely didn't include prospects. Keep them of course. If it's a rebuild then we gotta go the whole 9. Lundqvist and Nash have to go for that to happen. No rebuild if you got those two players on the team.

Girardi and Callahan are two players that teams will trip over themselves to get at the deadline.

 

[nyrpassion]

It will be interesting near the trade deadline if this team is out of it...i wonder how many players are actually safe....

Honestly, at this point I don't know. I feel everyone is expendable, even Hank. Past years it was blasphemous to have a trade
proposal with Hank, McD, Girardi, Callahan, etc. This year, not so much.
However, if I were to chose, I'd say McD, Staal, Stepan are really "safe" if you will.

edit: yeah, just saw the posts above. basically agree with that.

 

[GFiP*]

How many good forwards could we get for Hank and Nash..

 

[I Eat Crow]

If we're selling guys off, it would be smart to trade for a young goalie. Lehner, Gibson, Campbell, Vasilevski, and Fucale are guys I would target. The first two won't go for more than overpayment, but I think the last three can be had for the right price.

 

[Raspewtin]

John Gibson would never happen. Andrei Vasilevski is a possibility. Just for fun, if we were to blow it all up, I trade everyone except: Hagelin, Stepan, J. Moore, Staal, McD, Dorsett on this current team. I don't see why we'd trade prospects if we're rebuilding. We'd still have one of the best left side D in the NHL, while getting a lot of assets for everyone else. It will be a really sad day if this happens, though.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

Meh, the blow it up talk is interesting, because there might be credence to the fact that this team is long overdue a proper rebuild, but with Sather at the helm

A. There can never BE a 'proper' rebuild

and

B. It's moot, because as long as the Rangers are in the race for the playoffs/grab one of the 8 spots most years, they're making Dolan happy

But, if we were going to actually blow it up, which I think is basically a necessity if Lundqvist decides not to re-sign/tells us to move him at the deadline, the guys I'd keep are:

J. Moore (young, good upside that he looks like he will reach, but not worth much if we were to sell him, so keeping is a no brainer)

Stepan (young and AT LEAST a 2C for the rest of his career, no brainer)

Hagelin (young and worth more to us than he would probably return on the market, so makes more sense to keep)

McDonagh (young and signed to a very good deal and is a very good d-man, should be a no brainer)

Dorsett (frustrating with bad penalties, but he provides grit and character, which is good to have in a rebuild, and won't fetch much return)

Richards (if we're going through a rebuild, we might as well keep him as a mentor and not rush a young kid into a spot he's not ready for; we won't need the money buying him out provides, but if we still decide to buy him out, that's fine too)

Obviously, we keep all of our prospects.

Everyone else is available. In particular, the one guy who I've made available, but really would rather have on my keeper list is Staal. The only reason I've made him available is because I think he'd fetch us a fortune and we already have McDonagh, so I didn't want to be greedy. I could go either way on keeping Brassard as well. If he can get us a return or be packaged with one of our other guys for a more premium price, move him. If not, he's young enough to be part of the rebuild.

Callahan, Girardi and Lundqvist hurt to part with, but those are the golden geese when it comes to stocking up with picks and prospects. Everyone else has to go, including Nash, Del Zotto, etc.

 

[Lexus Dog]

Tampa has always needed D. Send them Girardi and MDZ and a pick for Vasilevski, Connolly, and Purcell (two right-hand shots on the wing!).

Then flip Hank for a nice haul.

Unfortunately Tampa aren't really buyers ever. Especially in the division they're in now.

 

[Raspewtin]

just looking at the idea of "blowing it all up" it's actually pretty exciting. Imagine the insane return we could get from our roster? The only two players in the league that compare to Callahan are Backes and Brown, and those two will never be traded, ever. Girardi is a top pairing RHD, and can fetch a fortune from a team desperate for defense. Hank, I don't even need to elaborate. Nash's return could be amazing as well, 40 goal scorers don't grow on trees, and at the 2012 deadline, teams were just throwing stupid offers at CBJ and if Howson wasn't so greedy, he could've gotten a lot more than what he ultimately received. If we traded Staal (I'd rather not but for the sake of discussion), that's another fortune we'd receive. Boyle would return a 2nd at least, Brassard at least a 1st, MDZ a 1st and a good prospect/young player. The possibilities would be insane. Many teams that go through rebuilds like these don't have so many high priced assets to trade away.

One more thought: Imagine for some reason Hank stays, and everyone else listed goes? We get our elite talent, AND Hank. Wow, just some thoughts.

 

[Championship*]

just looking at the idea of "blowing it all up" it's actually pretty exciting. Imagine the insane return we could get from our roster? The only two players in the league that compare to Callahan are Backes and Brown, and those two will never be traded, ever. Girardi is a top pairing RHD, and can fetch a fortune from a team desperate for defense. Hank, I don't even need to elaborate. Nash's return could be amazing as well, 40 goal scorers don't grow on trees, and at the 2012 deadline, teams were just throwing stupid offers at CBJ and if Howson wasn't so greedy, he could've gotten a lot more than what he ultimately received. If we traded Staal (I'd rather not but for the sake of discussion), that's another fortune we'd receive. Boyle would return a 2nd at least, Brassard at least a 1st, MDZ a 1st and a good prospect/young player. The possibilities would be insane. Many teams that go through rebuilds like these don't have so many high priced assets to trade away.

It really is a perfect storm because of all the UFAs we have, and the fact that the next two drafts have two players who could be the next Pronger and Crosby respectfully.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Ekblad is going to be nothing like Pronger. He's probably the most polished and physically mature defenseman to come out of juniors in a very long time, but I don't see really high end offense coming from him.

Mods, going to start a 2014 draft thread, this PGT is getting way too off topic, though admittedly, I'm one of the culprits causing it.