Rumor: Rakell to Sibir Novosibirsk

[Vipers31]

Really? We just had another higher profile young player (Nuke) sign in the KHL for what is essentially bridge contract money ~1.25M USD

There is a huge differece between going home because you're not happy with the coach of your team and going even further away from home because you feel you deserve a little more money. It's generally not Europeans that are a flight risk, it's by far and large only Russians. To the rest, th

That said, I don't even really think Sibir is a team that can offer that much. Their import players are all guys that were only relatively good in the other European leagues, and shouldn't be too highly paid. Can't see them being able to afford $2M, let alone the amount it would take Rakell to come there.

 

[BB88]

By offering bridge contracts to one or both players and trading either Fowler or Despres to create some additional space. I'm not saying it is easy or it would already be done, but it's not like there is only one solution to this problem either.

Problem is how to stage everything without damaging the roster. If the RFAs get signed before the trades, then GMs will lower their offers to take advantage of the Ducks' need to move salary. If we do the trades first, then the two RFAs will become more emboldened about their salary demands.

We ultimately will have to make a trade to coincide with signing Lindholm and Rakell, so we risk creating a hole on the blue line and hope that we end up filling a hole up front. While most Ducks fans agree that we have to move a dman for forward help, there is a lot of disagreement about which dman and whether we have to have an NHL-ready top 6 forward now who fits within the salary budget or we can trade for futures and risk losing a year of Getzlaf/Perry/Kesler in their prime.

Certainly this problem was caused by Murray, so he'll have to fix it somehow. Whether we will like the result is unknown at this point.

I don't think signing Lindholm to bridge would be that easy and if somehow he'd do it it would cost quite a lot in few years. So Rakel to bridge+ longterm contract to Lindholm, but EVEN that should take over 7.5M.

I get that it should likely be one of Fowler/Despres out but Murray has to realize the value isn't that high right now, he created a problem and can only blame himself.
What was he thinking honestly with that Bernier trade

 

[Exit Dose]

What was he thinking honestly with that Bernier trade

Huh?

 

[BB88]

Huh?

4.15m cap hit.

 

[Exit Dose]

4.15m cap hit.

His salary was and is more important to Anaheim. Stoner is the one that Ducks fans lament.

 

[BB88]

His salary was and is more important to Anaheim. Stoner is the one that Ducks fans lament.

His cap hit is a big problem right now, sign a backup with 1-2M and have space to sign both RFA's.
They could have kept the defense together.

Murray knew he had the best young D-player unsigned with Rakell and he traded for one of the most expensive backups cap hit wise.

 

[Heraldic]

Not as much as it's painted in hindsight, no. Leddy just wasn't seen as the player he proved capable in a bigger role afterwards. Sharp was an aging player with a bigger salary coming off a weaker season. The specifics about the players were making the market cautious, not some collaboration between GMs to artificially keep a price down.

Leddy had two +30 points, one averaged 30 points (lock-out) and a ring. Back then mobile, puck-moving d-men were also in demand. Leddy wasn't the player then he is now, but it was pretty clear back then that he had the potential to be that. He was also on a pretty cheap contract with RFA status ahead. He was moved for a decent prospect who was pretty far away from being even an NHL-caliber player.

Sharp had a weaker season under him, but it still wasn't actually weak. He also had solid playoffs resulting into winning a cup. His age likely wasn't that big of a factor since he only had two seasons left on his contract. His cap hit is pretty good for a two-way winger like him. He would have gotten probably similar type of contract on the FA.

This one comes down to terminology, I think. I'd treat the salary cap, or rather the team's relation to it, just as one determining factor that drives the market. When a team doesn't have the means due to the cap, they aren't creating demand, there's no argument there.

Of course they are. It's not like they're insolvent operators there. It's not like an operator with absolutely no way to get funding or liquid currency. Every NHL team has a certain amount of cap. They're not TOTALLY run out of it in any circumstance. They can create it easily. Insolvent operators cannot create funding.

It's about opportunity cost calculation. And if you're familiar with the concept, you understand how much more complex the environment becomes.

Anyway, saying something like that nothing else drives the market except supply and demand is just a simplification that might sound legit in high school class. In a real world the environment is tons of more complex.

 

[Exit Dose]

His cap hit is a big problem right now, sign a backup with 1-2M and have space to sign both RFA's.
They could have kept the defense together.

Murray knew he had the best young D-player unsigned with Rakell and he traded for one of the most expensive backups cap hit wise.

Because the cap hit doesn't matter to Anaheim. You are just offering up baseless speculation. The notion that none of these things were considered is just absurd. Murray has been one of the top GMs in this league largely for his ability to juggle salary and cap.

 

[Nordic*]

Ducks have apparently low-balled both Lindholm and Rakell.

 

[BB88]

Because the cap hit doesn't matter to Anaheim. You are just offering up baseless speculation. The notion that none of these things were considered is just absurd. Murray has been one of the top GMs in this league largely for his ability to juggle salary and cap.

How doesn't his cap hit matter??????

You have 7.5M cap space without Rakell& Lindholm.

 

[Exit Dose]

How doesn't his cap hit matter??????

You have 7.5M cap space without Rakell& Lindholm.

You're assuming that they haven't planned for that. That's just absurd.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Ducks have apparently low-balled both Lindholm and Rakell.

Didn't Lindholm call out ownership saying they were cheap, Or was that something else.

 

[Heraldic]

Because the cap hit doesn't matter to Anaheim. You are just offering up baseless speculation. The notion that none of these things were considered is just absurd. Murray has been one of the top GMs in this league largely for his ability to juggle salary and cap.

Salary cap is a restriction that every team has to follow. So of course it matters.

The better way to put it, is to say that while actual salary doesn't matter for many teams, it matters for Ducks. Just because Ducks have to take into account the actual salary, they don't get the freedom of neglecting salary cap.

And as it has been pointed out, Ducks are actually pretty close to the salary cap considering that they have to still sign two important RFAs.

 

[Exit Dose]

Salary cap is a restriction that every team has to follow. So of course it matters.

The better way to put it, is to say that while actual salary doesn't matter for many teams, it matters for Ducks. Just because Ducks have to take into account the actual salary, they don't get the freedom of neglecting salary cap.

And as it has been pointed out, Ducks are actually pretty close to the salary cap considering that they have to still sign two important RFAs.

Keep reading.

 

[Vipers31]

Ducks have apparently low-balled both Lindholm and Rakell.

Considering many contracts signed by RFAs recently, what would even qualify as a true lowballing? Their leverage remains limited. I doubt Rakell wants to go to Siberia, and while I don't discard the possibility, I find it hard to believe that the chances of offer sheets increases by the time camps open.

His cap hit is a big problem right now, sign a backup with 1-2M and have space to sign both RFA's.
They could have kept the defense together.

Murray knew he had the best young D-player unsigned with Rakell and he traded for one of the most expensive backups cap hit wise.

Meh. I guess if one guy signed an offersheet, Murray matched, and then the other guy signed an offer sheet that we then couldn't match, it would be an issue. But until something actually happens, I remain fine with the Bernier acquisition.

 

[BB88]

You're assuming that they haven't planned for that. That's just absurd.

Right now it's not looking too great is it?
2.5 weeks till the season starts and nothing has happened.

Could it just be that Murray made a mistake?
To say Berniers cap hit doesn't matter is absurd. Lindholw isn't cheap to sign to a longterm contract.

Meh. I guess if one guy signed an offersheet, Murray matched, and then the other guy signed an offer sheet that we then couldn't match, it would be an issue. But until something actually happens, I remain fine with the Bernier acquisition.

That trade is pushing someone like Fowler out and probably not for fair value, wouldn't it have been better to sign a 1M backup and keep that defense together and go for a run over losing Fowler/x for maybe a bit better backup?

 

[Exit Dose]

Right now it's not looking too great is it?
2.5 weeks till the season starts and nothing has happened.

Could it just be that Murray made a mistake?
To say Berniers cap hit doesn't matter is absurd. Lindholw isn't cheap to sign to a longterm contract.

Nothing happens in two-and-a-half weeks if they aren't re-signed.

 

[dracom]

That trade is pushing someone like Fowler out and probably not for fair value, wouldn't it have been better to sign a 1M backup and keep that defense together and go for a run over losing Fowler/x for maybe a bit better backup?

Would it have been nice to get a cheap backup like Enroth? Sure. We don't know if Murray didn't try to get him and Enroth said no. Ducks have a good relationship with Toronto, so I'm guessing Andersen going to Toronto needed to have Bernier come back but with Toronto paying half his salary. Unless it's public knowledge that Murray didn't try and go after one the FA back up goalies, acquiring Bernier is fine.

 

[Vipers31]

That trade is pushing someone like Fowler out and probably not for fair value, wouldn't it have been better to sign a 1M backup and keep that defense together and go for a run over losing Fowler/x for maybe a bit better backup?

Those were never the two options. Bernier was never going to be the reason for Fowler leaving, and isn't going to be the reason now. At the end of the day, it was always and is still going to get back to where the salary number drives things in Anaheim, not the cap number. Saving $1M from Bernier to a significantly worse #2 (or #1B) wouldn't have made keeping Fowler on $4M or another player in that range palatable.

And while I'm optimistic about Gibson's future, I think that would not have been a wise spot to save money. I haven't seen what work he has put in over the summer, but he had some way to go before being thrust in a #1 role with nothing but a low-end backup to fall back on is a smart move.

 

[glenbuis]

Would it have been nice to get a cheap backup like Enroth? Sure. We don't know if Murray didn't try to get him and Enroth said no. Ducks have a good relationship with Toronto, so I'm guessing Andersen going to Toronto needed to have Bernier come back but with Toronto paying half his salary. Unless it's public knowledge that Murray didn't try and go after one the FA back up goalies, acquiring Bernier is fine.

how much salary did toronto retain in the bernier deal ?

 

[BB88]

Nothing happens in two-and-a-half weeks if they aren't re-signed.

If nothing happens it would mean the teams #1D missed the pre season and the team would start the season without #1D and top6 winger.

Would it have been nice to get a cheap backup like Enroth? Sure. We don't know if Murray didn't try to get him and Enroth said no. Ducks have a good relationship with Toronto, so I'm guessing Andersen going to Toronto needed to have Bernier come back but with Toronto paying half his salary. Unless it's public knowledge that Murray didn't try and go after one the FA back up goalies, acquiring Bernier is fine.

I'm looking at Montoya, Gustavsson, Enroth, Chad Johnson and so on.

If they lose Fowler and for little value/those 2 end up sitting the pre season I'd be very disappointed at the Bernier trade.

Those were never the two options. Bernier was never going to be the reason for Fowler leaving, and isn't going to be the reason now. At the end of the day, it was always and is still going to get back to where the salary number drives things in Anaheim, not the cap number. Saving $1M from Bernier to a significantly worse #2 (or #1B) wouldn't have made keeping Fowler on $4M or another player in that range palatable.

And while I'm optimistic about Gibson's future, I think that would not have been a wise spot to save money. I haven't seen what work he has put in over the summer, but he had some way to go before being thrust in a #1 role with nothing but a low-end backup to fall back on is a smart move.

The team is now at a point where the cap is causing problems, as we are seeing with these 2 unsigned RFA's, not enough cap space to sign them both.
So its not just about money, it's about cap space as well.

 

[Exit Dose]

If nothing happens it would mean the teams #1D missed the pre season and the team would start the season without #1D and top6 winger.

In other words, nothing of significance.

 

[Sojourn]

A player holding out is hardly unprecedented, and missing the pre-season? Who cares? Especially when we're talking about players who were readying themselves for the World Cup.

 

[dracom]

how much salary did toronto retain in the bernier deal ?

Technically none, but they paid half his salary for the year already, so the Ducks only have to pay the other half of his salary. It's why the trade happen later and nothing but future considerations went back to Toronto.

I'm looking at Montoya, Gustavsson, Enroth, Chad Johnson and so on.

If they lose Fowler and for little value/those 2 end up sitting the pre season I'd be very disappointed at the Bernier trade.


The team is now at a point where the cap is causing problems, as we are seeing with these 2 unsigned RFA's, not enough cap space to sign them both.
So its not just about money, it's about cap space as well.

Again, we don't know if Murray tried and those players just didn't want to come here. Can't imagine many players want to play for RC. We needed a back up for Gibson, Bernier has history with RC, so unless we hear that Murray only looked at Bernier as a backup I'm fine with the trade.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

If the Ducks lose Rakell to Sibir, it would have to be one of the worst off-seasons of all time.