OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Polanco likes to fish

[ImporterExporter]

Glasnow would be our 3rd best pitcher instantly if he came up next week. His walk rate is elevated some since he was called up to AAA (was great in AA) but the rest of his numbers are elite. He is the best pitching prospect the Pirates have had in the Neal Huntington era. His numbers blow anything Cole ever did in minor league ball away and his stuff is every bit as good as 45.

They won't call him up but if you wanted an arm that had the ability to give you a chance to win, then he's a better bet than Locke and Morton easily. Those 2 guys are so inconsistent and are 4+ ERA guys. You have no idea what you're getting every start and the offense has to show up each time for us to have a chance to win.

Glasnow has dominated every single level. He can refine the command a bit but other than that there is nothing left for him to prove in minor league ball. It doesn't hurt his service time to come up for a few weeks and like i said, his stuff is so good that he gives us a better chance at quality outings than either Locke or Morton, hands down.

Won't happen, but i'm of the mind you put your most talented people on the diamond night in and night out. Glasnow is far more talented than Locke and Morton (and Happ, although he's earned a right to stay in the rotation with his efforts).

 

[WickedWrister]

If AJ has a setback (God forbid), I'd call up Glasnow. Elite prospects have skipped AAA before, who's to say Glasnow isn't ready for the bigs? People always get too concerned about rushing prospects, but would it really ruin his career by getting a handful of starts before the playoffs? Worst case scenario, the kid gets shelled, but it's not like he'll become so mentally unstable that he won't be able to bounce back.

There's also the added benefit of him being around the team for a playoff run.

 

[madinsomniac]

Let me explain exactly how preposterous this current scenario is for the Pirates.

The pirates are currently winning at a .611 clip.
They are third overall in the entirety of MLB, a mere half game behind the team with the second place record, the Kansas City Royals.
They are, however mired behind the Cardinals in their own division. That gets them a wild card game regardless of how well they do in comparison to the rest of the league.
If they were to finish with that .611 win %, which is a 98 or 99 win season, they would be in some fairly elite company. In the past ten seasons 2005 to 2014 only 8 teams finished at .600 or better. In 4 of those seasons, no team finished at .600 or better at all.
During that timeframe, that .611 mark would be the 5th best record overall. Only the 2005 Cardinals (.617), 08 Angels(.617), 09 Yankees (.636), and 11 Nationals (.630) would be better.
Only twice in that period were there 2 teams with a .600 record or better, and in both cases one was from the American league and the other the National league.
You actually have to go back 11 seasons to 04 in order to find a comparable season, where 3 teams had over .600 winning percentages. Two of those were from the same division as well, the Yankees and red Sox, however neither of those two teams had the best winning percentage that year. That went to the Cardinals at .648, almost the same pace they are on this season.
If the Pirates do make the wild card with a .611 winning percentage, that would tie the second best record ever for any wild card team since it’s inception in 94. Only the 2001 athletics were better.
This would be the 4th time a wild card team even had a .600 or better record, and the first time a national league club did it

So basically the Pirates are a great team stuck behind a team having the best season in just over a decade.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Remember when everyone was clamoring for Polonco to come up because he had a small run of success at AAA in a very limited number of ABs? He ended up needing some extra polishing in AAA (which the Pirates kept telling everyone) and is really just now progressing. Maybe giving him those extra 2 months or so in AAA eliminates that blip where he was stuggling. Maybe his baserunning improves.

I only know the Pirates prospects from reading and watch some YouTube videos on them. The Pirates organization has 24/7 contact and access to them. If they feel Glasnow needs more AAA seasoning, so be it.

With the offense the Pirates have and the 1-2 punch of Cole/Liranio I don't see a problem replicating the 2001 Diamondbacks, but instead of having 2 HoF starters and 3 steaming piles of crap behind them (Brian Anderson, Robert Ellis, Albie Lopez- all with ERAs above or approaching 5.00) the Pirates have 2 top of the line starters and 3-4 serviceable starters that aren't going to dominate a game, but they'll give you a chance to win.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Pretty much everybody that has seen Glasnow pitch says he isn't ready.

The fans who just look at the box score are the only ones who thinks he is ready.

 

[madinsomniac]

Pretty much everybody that has seen Glasnow pitch says he isn't ready.

The fans who just look at the box score are the only ones who thinks he is ready.

Im just not sure we need the guy anyhow. If Burnett gets back that 3 top end starters. Morton and Happ are both as good as most 4ths you see out there in the playoffs.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Before the scoreless inning streak, Glasnow struggled massively with control (and the walk rate hasn't improved much). I'd rather just see him have a strong finish for AAA and be pushing to start next season in the rotation, or be an early season call up.

The only exception I'd make is if they wanted to get him a bit more innings this season so that he's capable of adding a little bit more next season. He's 13 IP shy of last year, and with two possible starts left this year in Indianapolis, maybe they'll want to add 15-20 innings. A big reason he is behind the innings pace is obviously the injury.

It's hard to say for me - I lean strongly towards wanting to be very conservative with him, as this way his first year above A-ball. He does have a fair amount of total minor league innings, so if he is lights out for two more starts in AAA, and Burnett isn't set to return, I could see trying to get him 2 or 3 cups of coffee in MLB in September, but I also think it's viable just to call that a good end to the season. He hasn't "dominated" AAA yet, which isn't necessary, and giving him some September starts won't totally ruin him, but I think the decision has to be based both on health/innings target and their determination of his readiness. Given that the wildness is still there, the latter is a big question mark.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

When Burnett comes back we do have 3 very good starters and 2 serviceable 4-5 starters in Happ and Morton. The problem is that Happ is going to be put in the bullpen because of the organization's love affair with Locke. A guy who easily outperformed Locke last year was already relegated to the bullpen and eventually sent down to AAA this year, why would Happ be any different? Locke's been in the league several years now and has been nothing more than a mediocore 5th starter. Despite this, the Pirates seem to think he will become more than just a mediocore 5th starter. Delusion at its finest.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Morton i can SOMEWHAT understand from a financial standpoint hamstringing him to the rotation (he's on a multi year deal) but Locke makes zero sense. For every solid start there are 2-3 where he gives us little to no chance at winning (offense has to score 5+ runs). Outside of 3 months he's been a marginal 5th starter his entire career.

If Happ has another 2-3 strong starts he should easily take Locke's spot. He won't just as NAO said. History has proven that time and time again. Locke, unless injured will get the ball every 5th day here.

As for Glasnow, i've seen him pitch live, twice and on TV a few others. I personally think he would come in and easily out pitch Locke and Morton most nights. Would he have a few bumps? Most likely yes, but he is still a top 10 prospect in all of baseball and has been for more than a year, for a reason. I've been singing his praises personally all the way back to his low A days. He's not ready for a full season of MLB play but 4-5 starts in September over "talents" like Locke or Morton, is not asking too much of him IMHO.

His control was more than fine at AA over 12 starts this year (where i saw him in Altoona). 12 starts and he only walked 19 in 63 innings = 2.7/9 rate. Again that is fine, especially when you look at the 11.7 K/9 rate in the same span. That's almost a 4.5/1 K to BB.

Gerrit Cole in 2013 walked 28 in 68 innings (3.7 per 9) at AAA. So let's not pretend that Cole was "ready" from a command standpoint either.

And Glasnow absolutely blows Cole out of the water in every other area that matters. WHIP, K's, K's per 9, K's/BB's, BAA, FIP, ERA, etc, etc. And he did it while pitching at a younger age in every level.

If you think Cole has nasty stuff, you've never seen Glasnow throw his fastball/curve combo live. It's devastating, ahead of where Cole was at 22. And Glasnow JUST turned 22.

Ideally he finishes at Indy and gets called up next June (like Cole) but IMHO i think he would give us a better chance at quality starts and wins over Locke and Morton, but that's just me.

 

[cheesedanish87]

It really sucks seeing Miguel Sano tear it up.

 

[Asuna]

Morton i can SOMEWHAT understand from a financial standpoint hamstringing him to the rotation (he's on a multi year deal) but Locke makes zero sense. For every solid start there are 2-3 where he gives us little to no chance at winning (offense has to score 5+ runs). Outside of 3 months he's been a marginal 5th starter his entire career.

If Happ has another 2-3 strong starts he should easily take Locke's spot. He won't just as NAO said. History has proven that time and time again. Locke, unless injured will get the ball every 5th day here.

As for Glasnow, i've seen him pitch live, twice and on TV a few others. I personally think he would come in and easily out pitch Locke and Morton most nights. Would he have a few bumps? Most likely yes, but he is still a top 10 prospect in all of baseball and has been for more than a year, for a reason. I've been singing his praises personally all the way back to his low A days. He's not ready for a full season of MLB play but 4-5 starts in September over "talents" like Locke or Morton, is not asking too much of him IMHO.

His control was more than fine at AA over 12 starts this year (where i saw him in Altoona). 12 starts and he only walked 19 in 63 innings = 2.7/9 rate. Again that is fine, especially when you look at the 11.7 K/9 rate in the same span. That's almost a 4.5/1 K to BB.

Gerrit Cole in 2013 walked 28 in 68 innings (3.7 per 9) at AAA. So let's not pretend that Cole was "ready" from a command standpoint either.

And Glasnow absolutely blows Cole out of the water in every other area that matters. WHIP, K's, K's per 9, K's/BB's, BAA, FIP, ERA, etc, etc. And he did it while pitching at a younger age in every level.

If you think Cole has nasty stuff, you've never seen Glasnow throw his fastball/curve combo live. It's devastating, ahead of where Cole was at 22. And Glasnow JUST turned 22.

Ideally he finishes at Indy and gets called up next June (like Cole) but IMHO i think he would give us a better chance at quality starts and wins over Locke and Morton, but that's just me.

Glasnow does have a nasty hook, that's for sure.

 

[Asuna]

What are everyone's thoughts on Taillon? He seems like a forgotten man (for good reason)

 

[Penguins23]

Morton i can SOMEWHAT understand from a financial standpoint hamstringing him to the rotation (he's on a multi year deal) but Locke makes zero sense. For every solid start there are 2-3 where he gives us little to no chance at winning (offense has to score 5+ runs). Outside of 3 months he's been a marginal 5th starter his entire career.

If Happ has another 2-3 strong starts he should easily take Locke's spot. He won't just as NAO said. History has proven that time and time again. Locke, unless injured will get the ball every 5th day here.

As for Glasnow, i've seen him pitch live, twice and on TV a few others. I personally think he would come in and easily out pitch Locke and Morton most nights. Would he have a few bumps? Most likely yes, but he is still a top 10 prospect in all of baseball and has been for more than a year, for a reason. I've been singing his praises personally all the way back to his low A days. He's not ready for a full season of MLB play but 4-5 starts in September over "talents" like Locke or Morton, is not asking too much of him IMHO.

His control was more than fine at AA over 12 starts this year (where i saw him in Altoona). 12 starts and he only walked 19 in 63 innings = 2.7/9 rate. Again that is fine, especially when you look at the 11.7 K/9 rate in the same span. That's almost a 4.5/1 K to BB.

Gerrit Cole in 2013 walked 28 in 68 innings (3.7 per 9) at AAA. So let's not pretend that Cole was "ready" from a command standpoint either.

And Glasnow absolutely blows Cole out of the water in every other area that matters. WHIP, K's, K's per 9, K's/BB's, BAA, FIP, ERA, etc, etc. And he did it while pitching at a younger age in every level.

If you think Cole has nasty stuff, you've never seen Glasnow throw his fastball/curve combo live. It's devastating, ahead of where Cole was at 22. And Glasnow JUST turned 22.

Ideally he finishes at Indy and gets called up next June (like Cole) but IMHO i think he would give us a better chance at quality starts and wins over Locke and Morton, but that's just me.

I know baseball as much as anyone here. I played catcher at a high level. One thing I'm really not educated on is MLB rules and all the roster legalities. If we bring Glasnow up in September does holding him out till June next year still benefit us contract years wise or does that void that? Sorry if that's confusing.

 

[Asuna]

I know baseball as much as anyone here. I played catcher at a high level. One thing I'm really not educated on is MLB rules and all the roster legalities. If we bring Glasnow up in September does holding him out till June next year still benefit us contract years wise or does that void that? Sorry if that's confusing.

They'd still have to hold him out until June to get that extra year of control. Maybe even longer since he'd accrue service time from September.

 

[madinsomniac]

What are everyone's thoughts on Taillon? He seems like a forgotten man (for good reason)

One year removed from serious arm surgery. we will know more next year

 

[Winger for Hire]

He would have to be added to the 40 man roster, outside of that I'm not sure it matters much.

 

[madinsomniac]

They'd still have to hold him out until June to get that extra year of control. Maybe even longer since he'd accrue service time from September.

The date for gaining free agency early isnt set in stone... it fluctuates.... june is just considered a safe estimate when the clause wont kick in that shaves a year off of UFA status...
"A player with at least two years experience is also eligible provided he is among the top 17 percent in cumulative playing time in the majors of players who are between two and three years of experience."

 

[Asuna]

The date for gaining free agency early isnt set in stone... it fluctuates.... june is just considered a safe estimate when the clause wont kick in that shaves a year off of UFA status...
"A player with at least two years experience is also eligible provided he is among the top 17 percent in cumulative playing time in the majors of players who are between two and three years of experience."

I know. I guess i should have said 'around June'

 

[madinsomniac]

The thing about calling him up is being ready is not about stats. Glasnow might have one or two great MLB ready pitches and the rest might be useable in the minors, but even cole was told when he got up that if he didnt work on stuff he was destined for long relief only... maybe they need him to develop other pitches or even change some mechanics that wont be an issue against lesser hitters.

 

[Asuna]

The thing about calling him up is being ready is not about stats. Glasnow might have one or two great MLB ready pitches and the rest might be useable in the minors, but even cole was told when he got up that if he didnt work on stuff he was destined for long relief only... maybe they need him to develop other pitches or even change some mechanics that wont be an issue against lesser hitters.

He still needs to work on his changeup. And holding runners on.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I know baseball as much as anyone here. I played catcher at a high level. One thing I'm really not educated on is MLB rules and all the roster legalities. If we bring Glasnow up in September does holding him out till June next year still benefit us contract years wise or does that void that? Sorry if that's confusing.

It's based on total service time but fluctuates a bit, and is never set in stone. With that being said, i'd say if he came up for 20 games in September (roughly 4 starts) you'd probably have to wait until the end of June next year to be safe in terms of the Super Two status.

Again, i highly, highly doubt he is called up. The service time alone would scare the Pirates off and he does need some seasoning in a few areas. But on pure ability he's already superior to a few of our current starters IMO.

I always keep my expectations low in baseball for obvious reasons, but i'd be lying if I didn't say i wasn't extremely excited about Glasnow and his ceiling. I personally believe he could be better than Cole, long term.

 

[Asuna]

It's based on total service time but fluctuates a bit, and is never set in stone. With that being said, i'd say if he came up for 20 games in September (roughly 4 starts) you'd probably have to wait until the end of June next year to be safe in terms of the Super Two status.

Again, i highly, highly doubt he is called up. The service time alone would scare the Pirates off and he does need some seasoning in a few areas. But on pure ability he's already superior to a few of our current starters IMO.

I always keep my expectations low in baseball for obvious reasons, but i'd be lying if I didn't say i wasn't extremely excited about Glasnow and his ceiling. I personally believe he could be better than Cole, long term.

I just said this to my friend, but it's extremely exciting to basically add another Cole to the rotation. Two, depending on your opinion of Taillon.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

I know baseball as much as anyone here. I played catcher at a high level. One thing I'm really not educated on is MLB rules and all the roster legalities. If we bring Glasnow up in September does holding him out till June next year still benefit us contract years wise or does that void that? Sorry if that's confusing.

It goes by service time, so calling him up would delay that.

That said, Glasnow may have a better argument for starting the season in Pittsburgh than any of the prospects before him, so I'm less worried about him being in AAA just to save a contract year...if he's in AAA it's because his control is an issue in Spring Training, which is a very legitimate possibility.

Calling him up in September basically would push his call-up date to July next year if going by that...and given his current place, I say call him up in September and just roll with it.

 

[PensandCaps]

Glasnow wont be here till 2016. And jameson will be here mid june bext yr. Man that rotation will be sick next year
Cole
Liriano
Glasnow
Jameson
Kingnam? Maybe?

 

[ImporterExporter]

Taillon is going to need a full winter (think Arizona fall league) and some spring to get back to where he needs to be. I've never been THAT impressed with him and he's another guy i've seen pitch live multiple times. I hate bringing him up because i was a loud supporter of us taking an ARod talent in Machado over a power HS arm, but i'll digress.......He simply never dominated or separated himself from the pack in terms of prospects. He's still young enough that he has big upside but i'd be much more apt to place him as a #3 type moving forward. Nothing wrong with that especially if Glasnow pans out because we wouldn't need JT as anything more than a 3.

Based on talent for 2016 i'd be rolling this to start the season. (Taillon hasn't pitched in almost 2 years. He needs some reps this fall and spring before calling him up).

Cole
Liriano
Glasnow
Morton (Taillon by June)
FA signing (guy like Happ)