OT: Raise the Jolly Roger | Now With Less Michael Martinez!

[Xavier Laflamme*]

Lol..so pathetic. Not even a sac fly?!? ****ing joke

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

Man... the buccos just can't get a break right now... brutal. THat's a 6-5 game just slightly over or at least POlanco gets a chance.

 

[cheesedanish87]

If the Pirates have a bad week this week i'd like to see them start selling.

If NH doesn't have any interest in signing Martin Liriano and Volquez he should trade them, i think you could get some decent prospects for those guys even though they would be 5 week rentals.

Moving one of the pitchers would also open up a spot in the rotation for Kingham, i'd like to see him get a couple starts in September.

 

[ColePens]

Ugh... that is a double edges sword.

In one facet I DEFINITELY agree with you. I think w/ injuries, it might be extremely smart to sell and gain assets. That would make us strong in the major years of Cutch.

In another... that would be a tough pill to swallow and the media would jump down the Pirates throat. You would have to put blinders on and see the full plan because it would get **** allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll over in every way.

This week is very important.

 

[cheesedanish87]

To me once you get to being 4 or 5 games out of the wild card your a long shot to make the playoffs with so few games remaining.

Its tough to make up ground in the wildcard because you are competing with so many teams.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Can you imagine the backlash the "cheap" Pirates would get if they sold this late?

FWIW Volquez is the only one that'd really be a trade option anyway. If Liriano can keep up how he's pitched the last few weeks then he's getting qualified. You're not getting better than a 1st round comp. pick during the waiver trade season.

 

[bathroomSTAAL]

I was on the road back from DC last night - did Pedro have any adventures at first?

 

[cheesedanish87]

Can you imagine the backlash the "cheap" Pirates would get if they sold this late?

FWIW Volquez is the only one that'd really be a trade option anyway. If Liriano can keep up how he's pitched the last few weeks then he's getting qualified. You're not getting better than a 1st round comp. pick during the waiver trade season.

Maybe some fans would look at it as the pirates being cheap, but it really has nothing to do with being cheap.

Its about getting something for players that are going to leave for nothing.

I can't see the Pirates qualifying Liriano or Martin, but if they are planning on doing that they shouldn't trade them then.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Why on Earth wouldn't the Pirates qualify Martin? There are few things that I will say will definitely happen, but that will definitely happen.

Liriano depends on the way the rest of the season plays out. Still, I don't think the asset we'd get back would come anywhere near a 1st round comp. pick in value. Volquez is the only real candidate here and he's not going to bring back much of anything himself.

 

[cheesedanish87]

The same reason they didn't qualify AJ, they might not want to spend that much money on Martin.

I'd put the odds of the pirates qualifying Martin at 50/50 at best, Martin qualifying offer will probably be around 14 million, we have seen nothing from this ownership that tells us they would be willing to pay that kind of money for a free agent.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

The same reason they didn't qualify AJ, they might not want to spend that much money on Martin.

No.

AJ wasn't qualified because he said it was either the Pirates or retirement and the Pirates figured they'd be able to get him for cheaper because really a 37 year-old AJ Burnett coming off a late-season flame out at $14.1 million isn't a great deal.

A 31 year-old Russell Martin? With how much salary coming off the books as it is when we're not near our budget ceiling as it stands? That's automatic. I'm sure the Pirates' offer will end up being similar to what the QO is over multiple years, and Martin will wind up getting better elsewhere.

Russell Martin is a 3.5 WAR player in 80 games this year...which prorates to the same ratio as Andrew McCutchen (4.8 in 109) per game. The odds of Martin accepting the QO are non-existent anyway, there is no risk of being stuck with him at a supposedly bad deal. Even if there was and the Pirates were that cheap then they could just turn around and trade him.

Liriano is very much a question mark. I can see him declining it even if we do offer since he may be interested in years more than up-front salary. The bare minimum I can see Liriano getting on the free agent market would be 3 years/$35 million.



edit: Ownership...we have money coming off the books and we already know that the Pirates aren't near their internal salary cap. Ownership would have nothing to do with this, Huntington is given a budget and is given the ability to do what he needs to do within that budget. Nutting is a miser, but he's not trying to be GM. That's how we wound up getting stuck with $14.5 million of Matt Morris under Littlefield.

 

[ColePens]

Didn't they just make recent reference to them moving on from Russ? I swear the article was just posted and interpreted that way.

 

[djt153]

that doesnt mean they wont qualify him, just that he likely will have offers that exceed the qualifying one

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Didn't they just make recent reference to them moving on from Russ? I swear the article was just posted and interpreted that way.

"Internal options". They expect Russell to get a huge deal, and I expect him to sign a deal that will wind up bringing all of our jaws down to the floor. That doesn't mean they're going to ignore their one shot of getting an asset for him because of the 0.000001% chance he'd sign it and that's just too much for the budget (it's not). We'll get a comp pick out of Martin...I want him re-signed, but if we're going to lose him at least we're getting something for him.

that doesnt mean they wont qualify him, just that he likely will have offers that exceed the qualifying one

Bingo. It'd be a whole slew of insulting words if they decided to not QO Martin. That'd be a drafting a relief pitcher 4th overall level of asset mismanagement. It's a free 1st round pick, there isn't a thought to be had.

There is with Liriano because he's probably not worth the QO contract...but it's also not a guarantee that he'd sign it and we need pitching next year anyway.

 

[cheesedanish87]

No.

AJ wasn't qualified because he said it was either the Pirates or retirement and the Pirates figured they'd be able to get him for cheaper because really a 37 year-old AJ Burnett coming off a late-season flame out at $14.1 million isn't a great deal.

A 31 year-old Russell Martin? With how much salary coming off the books as it is when we're not near our budget ceiling as it stands? That's automatic. I'm sure the Pirates' offer will end up being similar to what the QO is over multiple years, and Martin will wind up getting better elsewhere.

Russell Martin is a 3.5 WAR player in 80 games this year...which prorates to the same ratio as Andrew McCutchen (4.8 in 109) per game. The odds of Martin accepting the QO are non-existent anyway, there is no risk of being stuck with him at a supposedly bad deal. Even if there was and the Pirates were that cheap then they could just turn around and trade him.


Liriano is very much a question mark. I can see him declining it even if we do offer since he may be interested in years more than up-front salary. The bare minimum I can see Liriano getting on the free agent market would be 3 years/$35 million.

I think the pirates would be afraid Martin would accept the qualifying offer

When NH was asked last year why he didn't qualify AJ his response was he wasn't willing to pay any one player that high of a percentage of the payroll.

I'm not saying the pirates definitly will or wouldn't qualify Martin, like i said i'd put the odds at 50/50 at best.

Last year Morales was coming off a year when he hit 277 23HR and 80RBI and he couldn't find a longterm deal with anybody, so i don't think its a guarantee Martin would either.

 

[nobuddy]

Win or GTFO.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

I think the pirates would be afraid Martin would accept the qualifying offer

When NH was asked last year why he didn't qualify AJ his response was he wasn't willing to pay any one player that high of a percentage of the payroll.

I'm not saying the pirates definitly will or wouldn't qualify Martin, like i said i'd put the odds at 50/50 at best.

Last year Morales was coming off a year when he hit 277 23HR and 80RBI and he couldn't find a longterm deal with anybody, so i don't think its a guarantee Martin would either.

There's a bit more demand for catcher with a glove, an arm, and a bat than there is for an <.800 OPS DH who can't play in the NL.

The odds of the Pirates qualifying Martin is 1:1. There is zero way that's nothing more than a formality.

 

[cheesedanish87]

There's a bit more demand for catcher with a glove, an arm, and a bat than there is for an <.800 OPS DH who can't be used in the field.

The odds of the Pirates qualifying Martin is 1:1. There is zero way that's nothing more than a formality.

Pirates should of also qualified AJ, but they didn't because they were afraid he would of accepted the offer.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the pirates do the same thing with Martin.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

The value gap between a 37 year-old AJ Burnett and a 31 year-old Russell Martin would make the Grand Canyon blush.

 

[cheesedanish87]

The value gap between a 37 year-old AJ Burnett and a 31 year-old Russell Martin would make the Grand Canyon blush.

It doesn't matter the value of the players.

Like i said NH said hes not willing to pay that much to any one player.

If Jon Lester wanted to sign a 1 year deal with the pirates next year for 20 million pirates would't sign him because they aren't going to pay any one player that much.

 

[djt153]

It doesn't matter the value of the players.

Like i said NH said hes not willing to pay that much to any one player.

If Jon Lester wanted to sign a 1 year deal with the pirates next year for 20 million pirates would't sign him because they aren't going to pay any one player that much.

1) what does this even mean? how can you evaluate anything when eliminating proper context?
2) they werent willing to pay that much for a 37 year old pitcher whose performance year to date has been basically edinson volquez'
3) if king felix offered to pitch for the pirates next year for $1 the pirates wouldnt let him because it would impugn the sanctity of the game

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Like i said NH said hes not willing to pay that much to any one player.

I'm pretty sure he's not going to let Andrew McCutchen walk if he had to pay him $14.1 million.

He wasn't going to pay AJ Burnett that much money. Huntington isn't this stupid and ownership doesn't have any say on who he qualifies or doesn't, it's entirely on him.

Martin is going to be qualified. The end.

 

[cheesedanish87]

1) what does this even mean? how can you evaluate anything when eliminating proper context?
2) they werent willing to pay that much for a 37 year old pitcher whose performance year to date has been basically edinson volquez'
3) if king felix offered to pitch for the pirates next year for $1 the pirates wouldnt let him because it would impugn the sanctity of the game

If i have 10 K in my budget to buy a car and somebody offers me a new BMW for 15 K as good of a deal as that is i still wouldn't be able to buy that car, i would have to find a car that is in my budget.

Pirates only have so much money they are willing to spend, even if they can get good deals on players they might not be able to sign them.

I'm pretty sure he's not going to let Andrew McCutchen walk if he had to pay him $14.1 million.

He wasn't going to pay AJ Burnett that much money. Huntington isn't this stupid and ownership doesn't have any say on who he qualifies or doesn't, it's entirely on him.

Martin is going to be qualified. The end.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree to a point here, like i said i don't feel strongly one way or another with what they are going to do with Martin.

I definitly think there is a chance Martin would accept a qualifying offer from the pirates if they offer it.

Are teams out there going to be willing to offer Martin a long term contract for 15 million per year and give up a 1st round pick? I really don't think so.

 

[djt153]

If i have 10 K in my budget to buy a car and somebody offers me a new BMW for 15 K as good of a deal as that is i still wouldn't be able to buy that car, i would have to find a car that is in my budget.

Pirates only have so much money they are willing to spend, even if they can get good deals on players they might not be able to sign them.





I guess we will have to agree to disagree to a point here, like i said i don't feel strongly one way or another with what they are going to do with Martin.

I definitly think there is a chance Martin would accept a qualifying offer from the pirates if they offer it.

Are teams out there going to be willing to offer Martin a long term contract for 15 million per year and give up a 1st round pick? I really don't think so.

if somebody offers you a $5000 car for $14,900 what would you do? whether you are able to afford $14,900 for a car doesn't even come into play.

 

[cheesedanish87]

if somebody offers you a $5000 car for $14,900 what would you do? whether you are able to afford $14,900 for a car doesn't even come into play.

You kind of lost me here.


My point is that the Pirates can't afford to pay big money to players even if they are getting them at market or below market deals.

If you have an 80 million dollar payroll you probably don't want to be paying 1 player 15 million dollars.