OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: New season of plundering begins

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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It's a hard trade because I believe he's injured right now, but I think Johnson and Davis should absolutely be trade bait right now to help the MLB team. Their values may be a bit low right now, but I think both still carry the prestige of being a high pick and both are still fairly young.

I know Bleday is a guy that Pirates fans have said they wanted, but I think the Bleday trade back in 2022 is a good estimate for what Davis' value is right now. Bleday was the 4th overall pick in 2019 that had a terrible first year in the MLB (.586 OPS in 65 games), then he was traded straight up for AJ Puk after that year. Puk was a cost controlled reliever coming off a 3.12 ERA in 62 games season, so I think that has a decent bit of value.

I think you could probably do something similar with Davis, which would also make a lot of sense if they end up trading Chapman at the deadline. I think that general value would be good for getting a legitimate piece to help the MLB team, whether it be a good cost controlled reliever like Puk (or what Puk used to be) or a good cost controlled MLB hitter.

I think Davis could be a notable piece in a Chisholm trade, if the Pirates decide to get aggressive and pursue that.
 

DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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Just listened to the new Pipeline podcast and unsurprisingly there's not a lot of new news, as the Guardians aren't talking to anybody and it's all just speculation at this point. I believe there will be a new Mayo mock later tonight, and I suspect he'll have the Guardians taking Bazzana.

They talked about polling other execs and got around 20 responses, with 15 going Bazzana and a handful going Wetherholt and a handful Condon. It sounds like there's some jockeying in terms of signability that will ultimately affect Cleveland's decision, but the way they are speculating makes it seem like it will still be Bazzana in the end. The way they are drawing it up, Condon and Caglianone are strong bets to go 2 and 3 if they won't go 1, meaning less of a discount, but also meaning that Bazzana's floor could be lower, meaning he could still take a meaningful enough haircut to go first.

That makes a good bit of sense to me. If I was a Guardians fan, I wouldn't really want to mess with a guy who had hamstring issues just to save a little bit more of slot.

For the Pirates, I think it's somewhat significant because if the Rockies take a position player, then it could hamper the odds of Kurtz getting to our pick. If it goes Bazzana and then Condon/Caglianone 2-3 in some order, then I think a lot hinges on Oakland, and they are seemingly not taking a pitcher. But I also think that for teams 5-9, the pitchers and prep players will represent a big temptation, in addition to the fact that Kansas City, LA Angels, and Chicago are all extreme wild cards based on past selections.

So I feel relatively confident at this point that one of Kurtz, Montgomery, or Wetherholt is going to get to our pick. I don't really think that Tibbs is a bad consolation prize, though I prefer both Kurtz and Montgomery to him -- Montgomery has the biggest upside from a tools perspective along with real value in the OF, and Kurtz is just the more polished player, including as a plus defender at 1B, which while not the athletic versatility people love, is not something to just scoff at.

As we close in on one week left, I've also softened a little bit on the idea of a prep player, and particularly Konnor Griffin. Rainer is tooled up and has the Corey Seager comps, and Cruz will almost definitely no longer be here by the time he would be ready, but I think as a prospect, Griffin is in a prep tier that is all on his own and might be a kind of diamond in the rough if other teams are laser-focused on the college guys. We're talking about a guy who has all the tools to be a 30-30 center fielder, i.e. a superstar. Even if the need for MLB ready bats to complement Skenes et al is very apparent, if you can get that kind of upside picking 9th, ultimately it's really hard to just say no to it.

My preference as of today, in order, is probably: Montgomery, Kurtz, Griffin, Tibbs. I'm not as infatuated with Wetherholt and I don't think Burns, Caglionone, etc will really fall that far. I basically see it as Montgomery being the premier college bat who circumstances may align to let fall in our lap, then Griffin being the tooled up prep player who is just too much value to pass up, and Kurtz being a happy middle ground that is perfect for immediate and long-term need and might just align due to other teams having plenty to chase besides a 1B. Tibbs is someone who works as a pro-ready bat if you can get him to take a solid enough discount to the point where you can take some overslot shots with the next 2 picks, but that's how I see it based on everything I'm reading lately.
 

WheresRamziAbid

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Oct 31, 2013
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The Palacios news is pretty strange. I think there was either an injury that was misjudged or a trade that fell through.

It is weird for sure.

Hard to imagine they got so far in trade talks that they were calling up a roster replacement and then it fell through. Stranger thing have happened but id wager either its injury, bullpen usage or they want one last look at Suwinski after a great game.
 

metalan2

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May 30, 2008
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Lost in all the (proper) angst over the shit show offseason additions of Grandal, Taylor, etc., it shouldn't be lost that Hayes has 3 extra-base hits since coming off the DL on May 29 and has an OPS under .600.

Sounds like the Pirates were going to send Suwinski down for Palacios but changed their minds after last night's game. Not a serious organization in any way.
It's been stated many times Hayes is f***ed because of his back and there are no options to fix it.

I was obliterated on this board by you know who for saying he may be ruined because Hayes had a home run like a month ago.

Hayes is no longer a viable option for the future.until he's healed and is yet another black hole of offense.

It sucks because he has real talent.
 

DJ Spinoza

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No, it was Suwinsky having a three hit day. That's all it was.

It is weird for sure.

Hard to imagine they got so far in trade talks that they were calling up a roster replacement and then it fell through. Stranger thing have happened but id wager either its injury, bullpen usage or they want one last look at Suwinski after a great game.

Yeah, a trade seems unlikely, but the way it went down and the way the reporters back tracked it makes me think it is extremely unlikely that it was a swap with Suwinski.

I think we'll have room the speculate about an injury once we get a lineup. A trade seems unlikely but it's worth keeping in mind that most every trade Cherington has made has not had much run up to it.
 
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DJ Spinoza

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Yeah, doesn't look totally sharp but he's getting the results. It would be nice to see him get through 6 innings tonight, but we probably should also manage aggressively if the game is close in the 5th/6th and he runs into traffic.

It would also be nice if we didn't have Mikolas on the path to tossing a Maddux.
 

WickedWrister

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Jul 25, 2008
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rowdysteal.gif
 
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BusinessGoose

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May 19, 2022
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Hayes sac ground gets tellez in, gonzo 3rd...one out... Come on, get some more

Gotta get on mikolas here....

Bart sac fly gets the lead

See what happens when you get two solid singles to start an inning? You're able to chip runners around into home. Crazy.
 
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BusinessGoose

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f*** it, small ball and baserunning it is!
On day when mikolas is choking the life out of you (I mean, he did 10+ straight innings against us without letting in a run), you HAVE to take advantage.

Was a small window of opportunity, and we got in there.

Still a long way to go, but great response after going down in the top of the 5th.

We going to the bullpen to start the 6th....white knuckle time
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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Why did they remove Jones after 5? He was doing well and the pitch count was not that high.

Just to expand on what has already been said, but I think he only has about 75 innings left this year before he's shut down due to usage. Pulling him after 5 gives you 15 more starts compared to 12 starts if you pull him after 6 innings.

I think they should be doing the same with Skenes as well, just to extend how much into August/September that they can pitch in.
 

Empoleon8771

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Do you know what's absolutely bizarre to me? Kyle Nicolas has actually been a pretty damn good reliever for this team recently.

Before today, he was at a 2.57 ERA and 2.45 FIP in his last 10 outings. He's still wild and walking a lot of guys, but he's also striking out a ton of guys and isn't giving up hard contact. He only has a .235 SLG against over that window.

Do you know what's even more wild? NIcolas' underlying numbers are like insanely good:

1720053626623.png
 

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