OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Dull days of July

[TimmyD]

An interesting point made on the broadcast right now is how few teams are actually truly "out" of it right now. There are only 8 teams in the MLB that are more than 5 games out of a wildcard spot right now, which is obviously going to limit how many teams are actually selling.

I doubt he'd be available, but another name I havent' seen mentioned as an option. How would people feel about targeting Varsho to be their CF?

I’ve heard this excuse from multiple people all season. Then go get a guy who from a team who is selling. Overpay if you have to. This team could be winning the division if they had a competent offense. I know everyone thinks they are just opening their competitive window but you have no clue if the division is going to be this weak again or if the NL is going to this weak again. There are guys who are available and they won’t end up with a single one of them

 

[DJ Spinoza]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1816184101210317286

Guy just keeps hitting. Gotta wonder whether he might see a September callup if he keeps it up over a few more weeks.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’ve heard this excuse from multiple people all season. Then go get a guy who from a team who is selling. Overpay if you have to. This team could be winning the division if they had a competent offense. I know everyone thinks they are just opening their competitive window but you have no clue if the division is going to be this weak again or if the NL is going to this weak again. There are guys who are available and they won’t end up with a single one of them

What's the point of being aggressive this year when it's possible that neither Skenes nor Jones would be available for a playoff series due to inning limits?

It's entirely feasible that their playoff rotation would be Keller, Falter and Perez in a wildcard series this year, if they even made it.

 

[TimmyD]

What's the point of being aggressive this year when it's possible that neither Skenes nor Jones would be available for a playoff series due to inning limits?

It's entirely feasible that their playoff rotation would be Keller, Falter and Perez in a wildcard series this year, if they even made it.

If this team is remotely close to a playoff spot, then there should be zero consideration to shutting down Skenes and Jones. Absolutely zero. That would be an absolute joke.

 

[WickedWrister]

Raise it!

 

[BusinessGoose]

RAISE IT

That was a sweepable series, though

Should have been able to pop Lynn in the middle game, oh well

Cards should be really frustrated with us... We stole game one and then they couldn't solve one of our pitchers we were scared to even start in game 3

Four straight series wins.

It's what we need, 2-1 gets you up the standings... Especially when it's division opponents

 

[TimmyD]

What's the point of being aggressive this year when it's possible that neither Skenes nor Jones would be available for a playoff series due to inning limits?

It's entirely feasible that their playoff rotation would be Keller, Falter and Perez in a wildcard series this year, if they even made it.

Also, even if they would shut those guys down for this season, the biggest thing we’ve heard about anyone the Pirates are supposedly interested in is “years of control.” So then you also get those players to help next year as well, when an innings limit shouldn’t be a thing. It shouldn’t be a thing this year either, but that’s why you get aggressive now.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Probably a bit paranoid, but I find using Chapman slightly curious. Obviously, this was a game that you just want to slam the door on, and it probably comes down to the combo of that + he's rested and there's an off day tomorrow. But I don't think it can totally be dismissed that we are keeping him in good form and showcasing him a little bit.

 

[ImporterExporter]

4-2 out of the break vs Philly and St Louis. Sure, it would have been nice to get the sweep, but that's a damn great start for the squad.

It's definitely solidified the notion we're WC contenders.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Yeah, that was a job well done. The upcoming games against the Diamondbacks are every bit as big as these games against the Cardinals were. The guy I am looking at is Mitch: he'll start Sunday, which means he will start in both series.

I'm of the mindset that there's no excuse not to be aggressive. Cherington has failed to take an aggressive path in the past several opportunities, going back to two offseasons ago. The window is open and includes this season.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If this team is remotely close to a playoff spot, then there should be zero consideration to shutting down Skenes and Jones. Absolutely zero. That would be an absolute joke.

It's the same exact thing that every team does with their young arms. There hasn't been a rookie pitcher who has thrown 170 IP in a season since 2019. Spencer Strider was a Cy Young contender in 2022 but only threw 134 IP that year.

Skenes is already at 102 IP this year. He realistically has about 50 IP left before he's shut down, because that's how literally every team handles rookie pitchers.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

After last night's loss, we needed a strong win like this.

Let's f***ing go!

 

[ImporterExporter]

Yeah, that was a job well done. The upcoming games against the Diamondbacks are every bit as big as these games against the Cardinals were. The guy I am looking at is Mitch: he'll start Sunday, which means he will start in both series.

I'm of the mindset that there's no excuse not to be aggressive. Cherington has failed to take an aggressive path in the past several opportunities, going back to two offseasons ago. The window is open and includes this season.

I don't think we have ever been in position to be aggressive in season, until now.

The trades overall have been a mixed bag (there are a couple of great articles on this subject) but before 2024, we were nowhere close to playoff ready. Trading assets, especially 2020-2022, in season, would have been a mistake.

I'm also of the mindset that Skenes and Jones won't pitch past September. As Emp mentioned above, this is not about the Pirates being cheap or cowards. No team extends their young arms past 130 innings. Even if you push them to 140-150, that doesn't get you into October.

We need to be very careful not to invest too heavily in a year where our best SP won't be available, regardless of how well he's pitching, in 2 month's time.

I DO think we should add a bat (or even 2). Hell, given that Skenes and Jones are probably getting shut down around 130 innings, adding a SP makes a lot of sense as well.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Encouraging News on Endy Rodríguez​

The Pirates received a big injury blow in the offseason when it was revealed that Rodríguez would be undergoing season-ending Tommy John surgery in November.
Rodríguez has been working his way back ever since and Tomczyk said publicly for the first time that the possibility of the 24-year-old playing in games as a designated hitter later this season “is being discussed.” The decision for that to happen in the big leagues is up to Cherington and manager Derek Shelton, but it looks like the chances of Rodríguez seeing game action are improving.

Tomczyk credits a “remarkable” rehab process that has been “truly linear.”

Rodríguez made his major-league debut with the Pirates last season and slashed .220/.284/.328 with three home runs and 13 RBIs in 57 games. He spent 52 games behind the plate where he posted three defensive runs saved.

 

[WickedWrister]

 

[DanielPlainview]

Waiting for Ke'Bryan Hayes to start being a star

 

[MrBrightside]

I don't think it's a given that Skenes will be shut down. Maybe he will, but Shelton expressly said yesterday he wouldn't be. If Jones does come back, the injury would allow him to pitch into September and even October - he's only at 91 innings. If he comes back in mid-August and gets 8 starts, he'd be around 140 or so.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

They don't ask how, they ask how many.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I don't think it's a given that Skenes will be shut down. Maybe he will, but Shelton expressly said yesterday he wouldn't be. If Jones does come back, the injury would allow him to pitch into September and even October - he's only at 91 innings. If he comes back in mid-August and gets 8 starts, he'd be around 140 or so.

I agree. I don't take Shelton or Cherington at the word much, but I think all signs point to us doing whatever we can to have Skenes finish the season, even if that's in October. I think we're going to try to do what we can to keep a 6-man rotation going and that we might even pick a spot or two to skip him. Once the calendar gets to September, that would be possible via an Ashcraft spot start, for example, and Priester is obviously available for that kind of thing as well.

I haven't gamed out the exact math, and obviously we're going to protect the arm, but I think it could be well within the cards. Skipping starts and stuff like that will be difficult given that every win is going to be huge, but I can still see it.

With Jones, I think we might slow roll his return for precisely this reason. There are a couple of questions to iron out first, mainly whether Falter's rehab goes fine and then secondly if Perez is dealt.

For Perez, I said this earlier in the week, but I think there's not much point in dealing him. He's a veteran who is well liked in the clubhouse, and he is still capable of turning in starts like today's. With how Arizona has struggled vs LHP, it would be nice to try and get him into that second series when we return home, but we'll see.

I could see the obvious desire to cash out in a seller's market, but 1) squeaking out 3 or 4 Perez starts might be a crucial component to extending Skenes' available innings further into the fall and 2) although teams are desperate for pitching, I can't see much of an offer being out there. Perez isn't a guy you want starting a playoff team if you are a contender, and while he could be somewhat effective out of the bullpen, his role is more valuable in just soaking up innings for the regular season. We should be the team deploying him in that role. If he had somehow strung together 4 or 5 straight starts like today and you could sell him for a plausible prospect, then sure, but there's no point in trading him for a lotto ticket or two given the circumstances IMO.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1816197490187579783

It's low hanging fruit to pick on Poni, but this is sort of a perfect distillation of a non-baseball fan way to look at things.

Sure, we missed an opportunity last night, but we accomplished the needed goal of the series. Now it's time to move onto the next series. I get the sentiment, it was a bad loss, but the team sacked up and got the job done today. That's the end of the story.

That isn't to say that there won't be multiple games where we can look back in frustration if we finish within a few games of the playoffs, but IMO this kind of thinking is just not how baseball fandom works. You have to be able to roll with the punches of a bad loss and then be fine shaking it off and battling the next day for a win. If anything, that's arguably the most admirable trait of this team, which is in the position it is because they have not had a major losing streak.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think it's a given that Skenes will be shut down. Maybe he will, but Shelton expressly said yesterday he wouldn't be. If Jones does come back, the injury would allow him to pitch into September and even October - he's only at 91 innings. If he comes back in mid-August and gets 8 starts, he'd be around 140 or so.

I think it largely depends on how the Pirates plan to use him. Do they "have" to shut him down? Absolutely not. But you probably need to skip Skenes in about half of his remaining starts in the rotation to have him available at the end of the year.

The good thing with their situation is that they have 60 games left but have like 8 starters to spread those games over. You know Keller will get an additional 12 starts, he has plenty of innings left to be able to get to that number. That leaves 48 starts between Jones, Skenes, Ortiz, Perez, Gonzales, Falter and possibly Priester.

I think they should target something like 12 more games for Keller and 8 more games for all of Falter, Ortiz, Skenes, Jones, Gonzales and Perez. If you want to lessen the workload on Jones or Skenes to be available for a hypothetical WC series (8 more games is about the most I see as them being available for), call up Priester to eat a few starts.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Speaking of the pitchers, I think their remaining starters have a ton of innings left. I was initially a bit concerned about Falter because of his MLB innings pitched, but I didn't realize he actually had a significant amount of time in AAA in each of 2022 and 2023. He threw in 131 IP in 2022 and 134 IP in 2023, he should still have another good 50 IP available for this year. For how long he goes in games, that's about 10 starts. Ortiz is actually in a nice spot due to spending a lot of the year in the bullpen, he's only at 73.2 IP right now and has been stretched out as high as 124.1 IP back in 2022. He could probably sit in the rotation for the rest of the year with no worries about his usage.

My rough estimates make me think that Skenes, Jones, Falter and Ortiz have 200 IP combined to offer for the rest of the year. Add on Keller (80 IP) and that's probably about 75% of the remaining innings from your starters on the year. Get the rest from Perez, Gonzales and Priester and possibly cut back a bit more on Skenes and Jones to have them available for longer.

As an aside, looking at these numbers also makes me more hesitant to move Perez. Trading Perez and just 1 injury to one of their starters makes me extremely concerned about them having the innings needed to get to the end of the year with Jones and Skenes available.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Poni is just an engagement farmer. He's a genius at it, really. Somehow all day every day he can think of things to say that are just irritating enough to get people to respond but not entirely dumb enough to make everyone ignore him

 

[BlackAndGold87]

Isn't Chisholm somewhat overrated? He's talented but stats are average?

What would a deal look like? If Josh Bell is attached, it should not be much.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Update on their deadline plans:

Isn't Chisholm somewhat overrated? He's talented but stats are average?

What would a deal look like? If Josh Bell is attached, it should not be much.

Chisholm is absolutely overrated but he’s still a good player. He’s not a core player like Reynolds or Cruz, but he’s just a step below that.

He’s the Adam Frazier to a team’s core player Starling Marte.