OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Dull days of July

[BusinessGoose]

Not gonna lie, they had me in the first half


Post ASB, they got real again

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

The only confirmation I need to know this team isn't trying to win is that Derek Shelton continues to manage them.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don't really know where the club goes from here. Clearly the rebuild has stalled, the fact that they added Paul Skenes and will finish with a worse record than 2023 proves this. The farm system rankings aren't a mirage. The talent pool has gone backwards.

Of course we could say Ke'Bryan Hayes and David Bednar were singularly responsible for this collapse, and without a doubt if those guys perform like 2023 we have 8-10 more wins, but management has built a thin/bad roster with so much dead weight in position players and pitching.

Keeping Cherington (I of course would not) and hoping that he gets on a good run of talent acquisition is an option. He isn't an idiot; he could make some acquisitions or run into a good streak of luck. Maybe fire the coaching staff to see if results improve. But definitely seems like a team destined to max out at 80 wins. The fact the farm system is so bleh after the 4-year tankathon is inexcusable. About the only source of hope is the ability to add a lot of payroll, but Bob Nutting is our owner.

I also just don't see it with Jones and Keller. As I've said, Jones is a very good prospect who had a good initial run. "Flashes of brilliance/dominance" do not = sustained success at preventing runs (the job of a pitcher). We're pencilling him in as the #2 starter and calling our rotation a strength and his ERA is nearing 4. Sorry I'll continue to look at ERA as opposed to xPitcherAwesomenessWAR to evaluate how successful a pitcher has been.
Keller runs hot and cold and is just a mid-rotation guy who will regularly get punked by quality hitting. Chandler is a very good prospect but a complete unknown at this level. Throwing those 4 in a rotation is worth a dice roll before blowing up the team after 2025. But I'm not optimistic.

 

[WickedWrister]

The Pirates started scoring like 5 runs a game at the all star break and starting giving up 10 a game at the same point lol

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm really happy to see Gonzales back and hitting, I don't think his early season levels are sustainable long-term but I absolutely think he can be a good contact/speed/defense guy that gets a bunch of doubles at 2B.

If he can be a .275 hitter while maintaining his defense (85th percentile OAA) and speed (93rd percentile sprint speed), that's a useful 2B. If he can learn how to draw more walks, he'd be even better.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

I wouldn't be against bringing Chapman back in 2025, and just making him the closer.

If they fall out of contention, deal him.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Good on Ortiz for performing where Jones and Keller could not. Often the pedigree guys are the ones who let us down.

Henry Davis hitting .147. Give him a bit more of a chance but he is looking AAAA.

 

[cookthebooks]

teams like the pirates have no chance if they miss on 1st overall guys

 

[BusinessGoose]

I wouldn't be against bringing Chapman back in 2025, and just making him the closer.

If they fall out of contention, deal him.

I think he will get signed to another team this offseason

Good on Ortiz for performing where Jones and Keller could not. Often the pedigree guys are the ones who let us down.

Henry Davis hitting .147. Give him a bit more of a chance but he is looking AAAA.

Yeah, ortiz can have terrible innings, but he's been pretty reliable to be good enough most games this year

 

[WickedWrister]

 

[Empoleon8771]

It is an absurdly small sample size, to the point where you can mock me for pointing it out, but Cruz’s defensive metrics in CF so far are actually pretty good. That plus the eye test are both really encouraging to me with him in CF.

If he can maintain his bat while continuing to be solid defensively in CF, he may be a 5+ WAR player next year.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Oh boy, Colin Holderman is back!!!!!

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I am not writing off davis because of Bart finally developing. As much has I want them to retire Cutch and open up the dh spot he is still one of our 5 best hitters just don’t put him in the lead off spot.
They talked about over the Padres series but ortiz is making the Keller jump from throwing to pitching he is learning how to get major hitters out. Jones is still a thrower not a pitcher

 

[ChaosAgent]

Keller and Jones

 

[Coastal Kev]

It is an absurdly small sample size, to the point where you can mock me for pointing it out, but Cruz’s defensive metrics in CF so far are actually pretty good. That plus the eye test are both really encouraging to me with him in CF.

If he can maintain his bat while continuing to be solid defensively in CF, he may be a 5+ WAR player next year.

what happened to his power?

 

[Empoleon8771]

what happened to his power?

What about his power? He has a .474 slugging% this year and has 54 extra base hits (31 doubles, 3 triples and 18 HRs) in 122 games.

 

[Coastal Kev]

What about his power? He has a .474 slugging% this year and has 54 extra base hits (31 doubles, 3 triples and 18 HRs) in 122 games.

Why do people have to act jerky when responding? He hit 1 HR in August, that's why I asked the question. Jeesh... people here.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Well we stopped losing games based purely on Cruz

We found many other ways to blow games

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why do people have to act jerky when responding? He hit 1 HR in August, that's why I asked the question. Jeesh... people here.

I wasn't acting jerky, I was just confused why you were asking that. His power has been great this year, hence why I asked "what about his power?".

He only has 1 HR in August, but he's also slugging .537 with 9 doubles and a triple as well.

 

[Factorial]

What does it mean to be "jerky?" Is beef jerky involved?

 

[BusinessGoose]

Herky jerky
helter skelter
this team's headed
for the cellar

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

The Pirates went from competing for, at a minimum, a wild card spot, to being in the mix for drafting in the top five, in quick succession.

 

[Ugene Magic]

teams like the pirates have no chance if they miss on 1st overall guys

A team like the Pirates trade away 1st OA's before they ever have a chance.

 

[ChaosAgent]

A team like the Pirates trade away 1st OA's before they ever have a chance.

Um, we have not traded away Henry Davis. He just sucks.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Um, we have not traded away Henry Davis. He just sucks.

So do you think Skenes will be apart of the Pirates future? Much like Garrett Cole was 5 years into his Pirate career, traded.

Davis, even if he pans out or not probably won't be a Pirate long either.