OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Congrats to the Houston Cheaters on their win

[td_ice]

Block said that was Perez's 1st extra base hit vs a lefty in 3 years.

Hayes, 3 hits tonight.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Losing a series to the Reds then turning around and battling the Dodgers makes total sense

 

[td_ice]

Sac fly by Chavis, 3-0

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Raise it!

Dominant performance against a great team.

 

[ChaosAgent]

You love to get this win.

Hats off to Quintana. Maybe we even extend him. It's weird. We coveted Quintana for years! In fact I think the Archer package is pretty close to what we had in play for him in 2016-2017. And now he's kinda a fringe guy but the stuff is still basically the same? Sooooo...maybe this is a rare win at the ML level for Cherington.

Getting a hot Michael Perez would definitely help things.
TBH I realized he was a bad hitter last year but I never thought he looked as bad as his results suggested.

Urias looked very hittable. Hayes with the 400 footer to LEFT CENTER! Which obviously I loved.


Even though Tucker is pretty much done, I'll be curious if the Pirates have Neil Walker in the booth for any other games this series while he's still here. I thought he was a pretty bad righty hitter and wondered if he thought about giving up switch hitting. I'm sure if he's commenting and Tucker is hitting it'll come up.

 

[Empoleon8771]

MRW both the Penguins and Pirates win convincingly on the same day

 

[Empoleon8771]

Pirates twitter has really stepped up their game this year with the memes, they're glorious

 

[ChaosAgent]

Where are the "Nutting is Cheap" memes on Michael Perez's $300 Uber? I hope Nutting ain't gonna make him pay it outta pocket...

 

[Empoleon8771]

Here's the video I was looking for earlier, it's so good.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Quintana works very well when he pitches in PNC Park. I get why there's a line of thinking that looks forward to a possible return, but I just don't think he's enough of an impact for a trade. His value is in terms of maximizing the number of innings you can get out of him so that the wheels don't totally come off with the rest of the staff. I can't go so far as to rule out any trade possibility whatsoever, but I'm thinking that the kind of swap that would make sense is for a change of scenery type player (like a Cole Tucker, I hate to say). I guess we'll see later in the summer, but for now he's been a nice boost.

I think you gotta get Tucker out of there. I was intrigued by the approach and seeming swing change in spring training, but it looks like it was all for naught. He just looks totally lost, and the only plausible reason he's around is because the depth is so paper thin that we don't want to push Castro or Cruz up yet. Setting that question aside, I think you have to option him ASAP to Indy and see if he can find whatever you think he can find or else he's next up for a DFA.

The depth is so bad that I'm not sure it will get to that point for a while, since there's going to be an extra 40-man spot with Perez out forever, and in any case all the viable options are already on the 40-man.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Quintana works very well when he pitches in PNC Park. I get why there's a line of thinking that looks forward to a possible return, but I just don't think he's enough of an impact for a trade. His value is in terms of maximizing the number of innings you can get out of him so that the wheels don't totally come off with the rest of the staff. I can't go so far as to rule out any trade possibility whatsoever, but I'm thinking that the kind of swap that would make sense is for a change of scenery type player (like a Cole Tucker, I hate to say). I guess we'll see later in the summer, but for now he's been a nice boost.

I think you gotta get Tucker out of there. I was intrigued by the approach and seeming swing change in spring training, but it looks like it was all for naught. He just looks totally lost, and the only plausible reason he's around is because the depth is so paper thin that we don't want to push Castro or Cruz up yet. Setting that question aside, I think you have to option him ASAP to Indy and see if he can find whatever you think he can find or else he's next up for a DFA.

The depth is so bad that I'm not sure it will get to that point for a while, since there's going to be an extra 40-man spot with Perez out forever, and in any case all the viable options are already on the 40-man.

As you and I have said...at some point you have to add pitching. Quintana is not getting us better than a 45 grade prospect. I think also the career arc of lefties can be more interesting. You can be good then bad then good again. I hope we don't automatically just go for the Anderson return again.

At this point is Suwinski here for good? He doesn't look awful against anyone really. I think the team liked what they saw of Allen enough to give him a shot once he's back. Marisnick is doing great work defensively but is a train wreck at the plate. My gut is that in the next couple of weeks Allen and Castro are up while Tucker and Vanmeter are gone. Then Marisnick goes once Newman is ready.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Never underestimate what someone is willing to pay for a good lefty

 

[ChaosAgent]

Never underestimate what someone is willing to pay for a good lefty

Eh, we kind of saw a similar situation with Anderson last year. A fringe catcher and a long-shot lottery ticket.

Maybe a team could talk themselves into more since Quintana was once highly regarded enough to be moved for Eloy and Cease (!!!!!!!) but I don't see a lot more.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I still remember how hype I was thinking the Pirates were going to get Quintana around the end of 2016.

The scenarios and all the rumors of a 3-way deal with CWS and the Nats. This was right after we signed Nova and there were indications that we were going to try to get more significant

Pointless Theorizing About Something that Happened 5.5 Years Ago...
*I think originally we wanted Quintana and the Sox asked for Meadows and Glasnow.
*The Pirates would have rather traded McCutchen than Meadows but since the Sox weren't trying to win they needed a 3rd team for McCutchen.
*The Pirates got the Nats involved. So it was going to be: Glasnow + Nats prospects to CWS, Quintana to Bucs, Cutch to Nats.
*Then all kinds of negotiations happened including the Pirates just trading Cutch to the Nats outright - I feel very confident that the Nats offered Reynaldo Lopez and Dane Dunning, and maybe Giolito...but Huntington wanted Robles.
*In the end CWS and the Nats just cut the Pirates out of the deal (of course they did) and struck a deal for Adam Eaton with a similar package to what they were offering the Pirates for McCutchen: Lopez, Dunning and Giolito. We'll probably never know if that package was offered for Cutch and the Pirates held out for Robles, or if we wanted Giolito and the Nats were scared off by Cutch's declining defense and awful offensive 2016...

Okay I got that out of my system.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Unless the Pirates are just absolutely out of it and have some alternative options coming up from Indy, I don't see a point in trading Quintana. This team doesn't need any more longshot 40+ FV prospects, they're swimming in those. It may not be the best move from an asset management POV, but you need to start adding MLB caliber players at some point.

I'd only understanding trading Quintana if the Pirates traded for a cost controlled starter or two in another move. If you traded a couple of 40+ prospects for a cost controlled #3/4 starter, I'd support trading Quintana for prospects more. But you just have so few guys who can actually start at the MLB level that I don't want to start selling them off.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I awoke to the thought ......... "I wonder how much the gambling books won on the Pirates game last night"

 

[ChaosAgent]

Unless the Pirates are just absolutely out of it and have some alternative options coming up from Indy, I don't see a point in trading Quintana. This team doesn't need any more longshot 40+ FV prospects, they're swimming in those. It may not be the best move from an asset management POV, but you need to start adding MLB caliber players at some point.

I'd only understanding trading Quintana if the Pirates traded for a cost controlled starter or two in another move. If you traded a couple of 40+ prospects for a cost controlled #3/4 starter, I'd support trading Quintana for prospects more. But you just have so few guys who can actually start at the MLB level that I don't want to start selling them off.

Critically, too...you need righties and lefties throughout a series. We don't have enough lefties to be giving them away for lottery tickets.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

The only thing I could see is if some team got kinda desperate and Quintana strung together 5-6 great starts in a row here. I really don't think this is a possibility since he flamed out there last year so badly, but maybe LAA sees the opportunity to make a playoff run and is willing to move Adell or something for Quintana+ Newman.

That's the kind of deal I'd look at, but I wouldn't really want a longer shot reclamation or another fringe depth prospect. Regardless I think we'd have to see a string of 6 IP or similar type starts before something like that becomes a possibility in late June or so, and pulling the trigger would be a pretty certain indication that the tank is again on, which I think is already true anyways. The back half of the season might get pretty rough, though I suppose Keller, Wilson, Thompson, and probably Brubaker will at least be able to pitch a bulk of mediocre to bad innings as long as they stay healthy.

I think the best case scenario for the team is that Cruz takes further steps forward this week and then we call him and Contreras up. Contreras obviously has no business in Indy anyways, but the sooner we get those guys in the mix, the better. Suwinski does seem like he might stick around, as he is more than competent in the OF, and we'll see about the bat. My suspicion is that he might have been called up in part because we're a little lower on him than CSN, but he's mostly looked like he belongs, so might as well keep rolling with it. I like Cal Mitchell's game, but he's not on the 40-man, so I think it will take some injuries before we'd see him. (Or, worst case scenario, a Reynolds trade...)

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Quintana if he pitches well will and should be moved even for a couple of 45 grade lotto tickets.

Unless they find themselves inexplicably in a wildcard slot in July, which lets just say i wouldn't bet on it.

This season is about separating the wheat for the chaff out of our AAAA players like Tucker, Vogelbach and even guys slightly above that like Keller and Brubaker

 

[ChaosAgent]

Quintana if he pitches well will and should be moved even for a couple of 45 grade lotto tickets.

Unless they find themselves inexplicably in a wildcard slot in July, which lets just say i wouldn't bet on it.

This season is about separating the wheat for the chaff out of our AAAA players like Tucker, Vogelbach and even guys slightly above that like Keller and Brubaker

Let's see. If we come in at ~72-73 wins we should be looking at fielding the best possible team next year.

My outlook on the pitching has gotten significantly better over these first 6 weeks. Priester is looking like a bust, but that is more than made up by the absurd start of Burrows and the projection of Kyle Nicholas. Plus there may still be some hope for Keller.

Meanwhile the hitting...more bad news than good. Cruz, Gonzales are the two huge negatives. Then there's the whole upper minors crew which isn't busting (aside from Matt Fraizier) but no one is breaking out either.

 

[td_ice]

Let's see. If we come in at ~72-73 wins we should be looking at fielding the best possible team next year.

My outlook on the pitching has gotten significantly better over these first 6 weeks. Priester is looking like a bust, but that is more than made up by the absurd start of Burrows and the projection of Kyle Nicholas. Plus there may still be some hope for Keller.

Meanwhile the hitting...more bad news than good. Cruz, Gonzales are the two huge negatives. Then there's the whole upper minors crew which isn't busting (aside from Matt Fraizier) but no one is breaking out either.

Busting?.....What the heck.....what's going on with Priester???

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Priester has been out all year with an oblique injury.

One thing that I don't know if we're considering enough is how bad offense has tanked everywhere. Maybe the MiLB baseballs are different, but if you just look around the league, almost every top prospect is struggling mightily, and tons of established players are too.

That's not to deny that there have been troubles. I think the most worrying is Gonzales, so hopefully the addition of Davis might be a helpful spark for him. Peguero on the other hand has been mashing.

The reason I don't love the churn method is that the strength of the system is already basically its depth, and the management seems intent on screwing around with the most talented prospect. You can never have enough guys, but Cherington doesn't seem to have a clear plan other than throwing a lot of stuff at the wall and gathering as many players as possible. In a tanking year, I'm not going to be up in arms about moving a veteran P, but I still think Quintana's return is what Anderson got or worse, unless you strike a deal with somebody earlier in the season who is a bit desperate and it's a perfect situation.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Busting?.....What the heck.....what's going on with Priester???

Sorry, maybe that was harsh. Basically a cavalcade of negative reviews on the shape of his fastball - again - and now he's hurt.

IMO Nicolas and Burrows are MORE than picking up the slack here. The only real bad signs from pitching in the system are Priester and Yajure. Everyone else that matters has done well, or at least well relative to their expecations.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

The Bucs cannot go a game without a batter getting rung up on a pitch 6 inches off the plate.

Robot umps, please.

 

[DJ Spinoza]