OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Congrats to the Houston Cheaters on their win

[bigdaddyk88]

Trying to get caught up here.

Anyone have info on Rodolfo Castro or Alford? Those two guys caught my eye last year

Alford is hurt again lol. Castro is absolutely raking in the minors and will be a much better Jhay. They have all of the prospects playing every where position flexibility is important

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I thought Keller has looked good so far, even when other's don't. People seem to have a hair trigger with him.

Me also and this Washington offense can be pitched around and once Cruz and bell are traded at the deadline it will worse. I fully expect him to do well tomorrow

 

[ChaosAgent]

Watched both this and the Pens on tape delay.

Roansy has "it." Easily the best chance for an ace that we have in the entire system, and his bulldog factor makes him a cinch for a #3 starter.

Vogelbach was great; unfortunate he ran into a guy with a great change as he was trying to be aggressive.
Tucker on track.

I know he was mentioned in the Vazquez talks and whenever stuff comes up with the Dodgers as it often does, but I think the Pirates dodged a bullet in not getting Keibert Ruiz. He can't field the catcher position at all and he almost lost the Nationals the game single-handedly with his unwillingness to pitch frame. After watching one game I have concluded that the guy needs to move on catcher.

 

[td_ice]

Doh! Thanks TD.

I feel like you don't hang around here much anymore. I just moved back to within a 10 min drive of Messina's pizza after not having it for a good 7-8 years. Still amazing.

haha, they're great guys. Dom and Franco. Definitely good food there.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I know he was mentioned in the Vazquez talks and whenever stuff comes up with the Dodgers as it often does, but I think the Pirates dodged a bullet in not getting Keibert Ruiz. He can't field the catcher position at all and he almost lost the Nationals the game single-handedly with his unwillingness to pitch frame. After watching one game I have concluded that the guy needs to move on catcher.

In a small sample size last year, he was generally neutral in terms of pitch framing and was okay in terms of dWAR. Kinda an odd take tbh, Ruiz has always been considered a good defensive catcher.

His issue is that he offers no power from the catcher position, which is normally something you want. But he projects to be a great contact hitting C with good defense, and I think the defense is there already.

 

[ChaosAgent]

In a small sample size last year, he was generally neutral in terms of pitch framing and was okay in terms of dWAR. Kinda an odd take tbh, Ruiz has always been considered a good defensive catcher.

Maybe just a bad game from him.

I thought the framing was brutal. Lost a lot of calls. Though the Pirates should have won no matter what. The Nats just rolled out generic righty after generic righty.

Only disappointment really was Hayes' AB with the bases loaded where he got dominated and locked up. But altogether much more good than bad from our franchise guys.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Maybe just a bad game from him.

I thought the framing was brutal. Lost a lot of calls. Though the Pirates should have won no matter what. The Nats just rolled out generic righty after generic righty.

Only disappointment really was Hayes' AB with the bases loaded where he got dominated and locked up. But altogether much more good than bad from our franchise guys.

Yeah possibly, I think the biggest critique of him is a lack of power. I've seen him described as basically an elite contact guy with good defense, which isn't really a great skillset you want from a catcher IMO but it's not bad.

I'd rather have Davis than Ruiz as the premier C prospect, but I'd obviously rather have Ruiz and say Leiter at #1 overall in 2021 than just Davis. But that's purely playing hindsight games knowing what happened with Vasquez. I remember advocating for getting Ruiz, Gonsolin and another prospect that I don't think panned out, which would have been underwhelming at the time but would have been amazing in hindsight. Oh well, not worth dwelling on.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yeah possibly, I think the biggest critique of him is a lack of power. I've seen him described as basically an elite contact guy with good defense, which isn't really a great skillset you want from a catcher IMO but it's not bad.

I'd rather have Davis than Ruiz as the premier C prospect, but I'd obviously rather have Ruiz and say Leiter at #1 overall in 2021 than just Davis. But that's purely playing hindsight games knowing what happened with Vasquez. I remember advocating for getting Ruiz, Gonsolin and another prospect that I don't think panned out, which would have been underwhelming at the time but would have been amazing in hindsight. Oh well, not worth dwelling on.

Keibert Ruiz - Scouting Report — Prospects Live

Dec 2020 Report Evaluator: Rhys White Age: 22 yr Height: 6-0 Weight: 225 lbs Hits/Throws: S/R Acquired: 2014 IFA RuleV: On 40-man Physical Description: Average height but stocky with short arms, built like a running back with a thick lower half. Long term maintenance concerns and

www.prospectslive.com

This is a scouting report kinda down on his defense.

Maybe it's just the euphoria of the win but I'm increasingly convinced that catcher and short should be defense-first. Especially once the shift goes away.
Like, hypothetically, if we had Davis mashing with a .850 OPS but another option who would be Jacob Stallings circa last year...I'm moving Davis to OF/1B/DH and rolling with the defense-first guy. *That of course could change if we go to robo-umps but regardless*

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I don't actually have a problem with giving Tucker some more run after today's game, as long as it isn't at Castillo's expense. I'd run him out there in RF, have Castillo at 2B, and keep everything else the same tomorrow. Marisnik can enter the game if a pinch hit matchup makes sense (though for power, Chavis is probably better) or you need truly lock down defense, but I think that's the configuration I'd go with.

The other option would be to include Newman in the rotation of players and let Tucker or Castillo start at short, but I'd be surprised if that happened.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

With Davis, it's hard to weigh in too heavily without really seeing him in any meaningful capacity, but I think I err on the side of getting him to the big leagues as soon as possible, i.e., next June or July. I don't know if there's really a path to do that and have him remain a catcher, but if the long-term angle is that robot umpires are coming, then the bat is more important than anything else.

That said, we didn't hear anything about that in the CBA negotiations, and we also haven't had Davis do anything but catch and DH. I'd like to see him in AA with Priester, but I guess with the injury to Priester, that's still a decent possibility if Davis is going to get 4-6 weeks and then a promotion if he's hitting well.

 

[ChaosAgent]

With Davis, it's hard to weigh in too heavily without really seeing him in any meaningful capacity, but I think I err on the side of getting him to the big leagues as soon as possible, i.e., next June or July. I don't know if there's really a path to do that and have him remain a catcher, but if the long-term angle is that robot umpires are coming, then the bat is more important than anything else.

That said, we didn't hear anything about that in the CBA negotiations, and we also haven't had Davis do anything but catch and DH. I'd like to see him in AA with Priester, but I guess with the injury to Priester, that's still a decent possibility if Davis is going to get 4-6 weeks and then a promotion if he's hitting well.

Realistically, do scouting reports even have Davis as higher than Endy defensively? It's more just that the bat has a very high floor and pretty high ceiling.

Let the hitting dictate how he moves up but let's ensure he can play other positions before he gets to PNC. As I'm sure they'll do next year with ST manipulation anyway. Based on what I saw from Stallings and now from Perez, defense from a catcher is really important to pitching development.

 

[OnMyOwn]

Raise it!!!

Raise it!

That’s what I like to see! Good game for the guys. I’m really trying to get back into this team again. I was a huge fan during those cutch MVP years…like a lot of folks.

That playoff game against cincy is still the most glorious game I’ve ever watched. The energy was just insane.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Realistically, do scouting reports even have Davis as higher than Endy defensively? It's more just that the bat has a very high floor and pretty high ceiling.

Let the hitting dictate how he moves up but let's ensure he can play other positions before he gets to PNC. As I'm sure they'll do next year with ST manipulation anyway. Based on what I saw from Stallings and now from Perez, defense from a catcher is really important to pitching development.

I'm not sure -- I think with Davis, the question is also one of relationships with the pitchers and not just framing or blocking. He does seem like he has the makeup and leadership skills for the position, so I don't think there's any reason to be cavalier about it, and I guess the flip side of what I said is that it just takes some time for a catching prospect to develop.

Even Adley spent two full years in the minors, and he's a phenom. The best case scenario might just be that we hope he still moves quickly enough to be a part of the 2024 team, and as part of that plan, we have a veteran catcher around who can help further his development when he arrives on the scene. It's not the end of the world if he gets a first baseman's mitt, but I also think that's a more visible sign of giving up on catching and there's no reason to think that's necessary just yet.

For example, with Perez looking like he's working out in the early going, maybe we spend some money to extend him with 2 years and an option. He's 33 now, but catchers can go for a while, and that's a relatively firm bridge to Davis.

There are 3 catchers on Greensboro, but so far Davis has caught the most, with Gutierrez catching twice and Endy catching once. Given Davis' bat, it seems like he should be able to handle the challenge of AA with an early callup, and then at that point it's mainly a question of how his work with the pitchers is going. An important and unfortunate wrinkle with him is that he didn't call games in college (true for almost all college catchers I guess).

 

[ChaosAgent]

I'm not sure -- I think with Davis, the question is also one of relationships with the pitchers and not just framing or blocking. He does seem like he has the makeup and leadership skills for the position, so I don't think there's any reason to be cavalier about it, and I guess the flip side of what I said is that it just takes some time for a catching prospect to develop.

Even Adley spent two full years in the minors, and he's a phenom. The best case scenario might just be that we hope he still moves quickly enough to be a part of the 2024 team, and as part of that plan, we have a veteran catcher around who can help further his development when he arrives on the scene. It's not the end of the world if he gets a first baseman's mitt, but I also think that's a more visible sign of giving up on catching and there's no reason to think that's necessary just yet.

For example, with Perez looking like he's working out in the early going, maybe we spend some money to extend him with 2 years and an option. He's 33 now, but catchers can go for a while, and that's a relatively firm bridge to Davis.

There are 3 catchers on Greensboro, but so far Davis has caught the most, with Gutierrez catching twice and Endy catching once. Given Davis' bat, it seems like he should be able to handle the challenge of AA with an early callup, and then at that point it's mainly a question of how his work with the pitchers is going. An important and unfortunate wrinkle with him is that he didn't call games in college (true for almost all college catchers I guess).

Totally fair. I will be curious as to the reports of his receiving.

Maybe his leadership and relationships will be enough, though I must say it's a bit easier to be the "leader" at UofL where you are the f'ing man and best player by a mile. Versus having it carry you here. If he is a great bat, bad field catcher, let's move him - that's what I'm saying.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Yeah, I agree. I also think the DH being here gives us a decent bit more flexibility. For starters, it's obviously easier to stay healthy if you aren't catching every single day, and I'm also thinking that it's fairly common for catchers not to really catch on until later in their careers, except in the rarest circumstances. Davis could break that mold, but it might be viable to have him and a more straightforward defense guy splitting time, with Davis doing a lot of DHing so that his bat stays in the lineup.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

The Pirates needed a big fat guy power hitter. They have been severely lacking in that department since Stargell retired.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

The Pirates needed a big fat guy power hitter. They have been severely lacking in that department since Stargell retired.

Randall Simon says …. Ooo sausage!

 

[ChaosAgent]

Randall Simon says …. Ooo sausage!

Randall Simon was a fat singles hitter though.

I like how Vogelbach uses his fatness. HE doesn't try to kill the ball; he doesn't have to. He can be much more stable and swing hard given his ridiculous mass.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Well, Park at SS is certainly a move, but at least Castillo is playing.

 

[dogthateats]

Not a great start

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Thought he had the chance to get the K with Cruz and settle in, but that is an atrocious 0-2 pitch.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Hopefully he can get it going but that was a real step back IMO -- the old Keller came out in that inning where he went back to trying to nibble or just throw. He was ok until he didn't execute 0-2 vs. Cruz, but getting 2 Ks to get out of it hopefully gives him a boost. I'm not confident.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Keller will be gone soon. He's just not good. No fastball command, on a pitch that has zero life as it were. It's not just the lack of location, when the pitches are in the zone, they're getting hammered.

He's got zero confidence as well. Just end the damn journey already. Please.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Park with a huge hit there. Nice piece of hitting sir.

We must enjoy going into a hole in the 1st inning of games. Keep the bats rolling baby!!!

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Burrows looks terrific tonight for Altoona, but I'd kill for a quality, consistent CF camera in these MiLB games. Bradenton basically laps the upper minors, though Indy and other AAA streams I've watched are usually good. Maybe because Bradenton is in the team's ST facility.

In any case, Burrows is someone to be excited about.