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OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Congrats to the Houston Cheaters on their win

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It seems like the Pirates starters going forward should be in a halfway decent spot. Between Contreras, Keller, Ortiz and Priester, I think they're sitting pretty well going forward.

Ortiz is the kind of guy I was criticizing the Pirates for not being able to churn out enough of, that kind of player who wasn't a top prospect but emerges as a legitimate MLB contributor. Combine his control through the minors with his electric FB/SL combination, I think he should be a pretty good rotation option going forward. He may get criticism for not having that good of a third pitch, but Chris Archer basically had a full career as a starter with only 2 legitimate pitches.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
It seems like the Pirates starters going forward should be in a halfway decent spot. Between Contreras, Keller, Ortiz and Priester, I think they're sitting pretty well going forward.

Ortiz is the kind of guy I was criticizing the Pirates for not being able to churn out enough of, that kind of player who wasn't a top prospect but emerges as a legitimate MLB contributor. Combine his control through the minors with his electric FB/SL combination, I think he should be a pretty good rotation option going forward. He may get criticism for not having that good of a third pitch, but Chris Archer basically had a full career as a starter with only 2 legitimate pitches.
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It's obviously very early in regards to Ortiz but you have to love the FB in terms of velo and more importantly life/movement.

Teams will adjust to him as they did Roansy but those 2 pitches should give him a decent floor as a good to great bullpen arm.
 
ImporterExporter said:
It's obviously very early in regards to Ortiz but you have to love the FB in terms of velo and more importantly life/movement.

Teams will adjust to him as they did Roansy but those 2 pitches should give him a decent floor as a good to great bullpen arm.
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Yeah FG published their report of Ortiz as "likely dynamite reliever" before the season. I think the mere existence of a changeup, even a mediocre one, combined with his control should let him stay in the rotation.

According to scouting reports, adding the changeup is something that has happened in recent years and it is allegedly improving quickly, so maybe his changeup ultimately develops into a legitimate 3rd pitch. If that happens, I don't really see anything keeping him out of the starting rotation. The stuff is just too good and the control isn't bad enough.
 
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I think they'll give Keller opening day next year. He's the vet and really earned it with the turn around.

Ortiz will be manipulated like RC and company and honestly might benefit from working on a 3rd pitch for a few months in Indy to start 2023. Either way you have to add him as a legit prospect and someone to be excited about.

I think we need a vet arm regardless. Quintana is the obvious pick if he wants to come back and Nutting is willing to spend 10-12 mil per over say 3 years.

Keller
Contreras
Quintana

Then by mid-season you're looking to add Ortiz, Priester, Burrows to the mix.

I do not like the idea of trying Oviedo in the rotation. Doesn't seem to posses the command to consistently pitch deep into games, and given an org. like STL already tried that would really benefit from having his power in the pen, which should feature some really lethal stuff with YDS, Bednar, and then Holderman, De Jong, Crowe, etc.
 
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I think the ideal outcome with the starting rotation next year is that you enter with Quintana or another #3 pitcher from UFA with Keller, Contreras, Brubaker and whoever claims the final rotation spot between Oviedo, Crowe, Thompson and Wilson. You then plan on Ortiz pushing Oviedo/Crowe/Thompson/Wilson out of the rotation and Priester pushing Brubaker out of the rotation.

Having your starting rotation be Conteras, Keller, Quintana, Priester and Ortiz, with Brubaker as the 6th starter, seems like a pretty solid position to be in.
 
Would have been shocking to win with Crowe in there. The bullpen will easily carry us to 100 losses.
 
The Bell trade is moving very firmly to the L column for Cherington.

Especially the utter stupidity of not trading him a year sooner.

We'll always have Endy Rodriguez.
 
DocEmrickSkitters said:
The Bell trade is moving very firmly to the L column for Cherington.

Especially the utter stupidity of not trading him a year sooner.

We'll always have Endy Rodriguez.
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With the numbers he is putting up in a Padres uniform he could easily be a cheap option for us at 1st
 
Eh, DK's pretty much right:



I will eat absolutely no Crow(e) that the 2 resident apologists want to force when we win 81 games in 2024. Not after enduring 5 seasons of .370 baseball. Talk about a terrible ROI on fandom. We better be the Rays redux and compete for eons after this.
 
DocEmrickSkitters said:
Nah, Bell's gonna get 4/$48M from somewhere. It won't be us. His value benefits tremendously from the universal DH.
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Guy has proven to be a 1st half hitter he is hitting 200 since he got to the Padres and might crack 20 homers this season I feel bad for whoever pays him that

DocEmrickSkitters said:
Eh, DK's pretty much right:



I will eat absolutely no Crow(e) that the 2 resident apologists want to force when we win 81 games in 2024. Not after enduring 5 seasons of .370 baseball. Talk about a terrible ROI on fandom. We better be the Rays redux and compete for eons after this.
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So letting the kids play in 23 is punting revisiting an extension with Reynolds is punting. This year was definitely punting I agree
 
bigdaddyk88 said:
So letting the kids play in 23 is punting revisiting an extension with Reynolds is punting. This year was definitely punting I agree
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What kids? They are going to service/Super 2 manipulate the only A prospects coming up next year. Suwinski and Mitchell are going to get unearned scholarships to starting roles when they should be fighting for it.

We'll still have a .600 OPS guy at third. Our best offensive players will be Reynolds who goes through ridiculously cold stretches and Cruz who goes through even more ridiculously cold stretches. Our pitching staff is going to be paper thin with "Keller, Roansy and Ortiz" when 1 injury could blow them over. BC will suck at assembling a bullpen because he always does. The payroll is gonna be ~$75M at opening day. Oh yeah, and Left Handed Pitching will obliterate us again.

You have to bring in real external help. The AAAA/B- prospects at the upper levels CAN break through but they need to basically hit the snot out of the baseball. You can't just throw all of them out there again and call it progress. That's what THIS YEAR was supposed to be.
 
DocEmrickSkitters said:
The Bell trade is moving very firmly to the L column for Cherington.

Especially the utter stupidity of not trading him a year sooner.

We'll always have Endy Rodriguez.
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Idk I feel like that deal has been a L for Cherington for a while. Yean was awful in the minors last year and has only been worse this year. I think the deal went into the L range for Bell last year.

He's not going to hit on all of those deals after all, and the Bell trade was definitely a miss. That deal was a big miss, the Musgrove, Taillon and Frazier deals were big hits and the Marte deal was meh because I'm not a huge fan of Peguero.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
Idk I feel like that deal has been a L for Cherington for a while. Yean was awful in the minors last year and has only been worse this year. I think the deal went into the L range for Bell last year.

He's not going to hit on all of those deals after all, and the Bell trade was definitely a miss. That deal was a big miss, the Musgrove, Taillon and Frazier deals were big hits and the Marte deal was meh because I'm not a huge fan of Peguero.
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Musgrove probably yes. Though he's a $100M pitcher sooooooooo.

Taillon is gonna just be a 1-for-1 with Roansy. Probably still a good trade, but now that the other guys are headed to the trash bin it isn't as lopsided.

Frazier - I mean Suwinski has blown for a while now and Marcano has too. Call it even.
 
DocEmrickSkitters said:
Musgrove probably yes. Though he's a $100M pitcher sooooooooo.

Taillon is gonna just be a 1-for-1 with Roansy. Probably still a good trade, but now that the other guys are headed to the trash bin it isn't as lopsided.

Frazier - I mean Suwinski has blown for a while now and Marcano has too. Call it even.
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Wasn't Smith-Njigba in that Taillon deal as well? He's not anything super amazing but he's looking like a MLB caliber hitter overall.

Getting Suwinski and Marcano for Frazier is definitely a win. I watch him all of the time now that I live in Seattle. Since the trade, he has like an 82 OPS+ and only has 1.6 WAR over 200 games between the Padres and Mariners. Getting 2 young MLB caliber players with years of control for that is a steal, simply because Frazier isn't very good.
 
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