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"You're a boring old man"
Well, Gorski is probably done for the year. Absolute gut punch. He was 1-2 with a triple already tonight.
OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Congrats to the Houston Cheaters on their win
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NewAgeOutlaw
Belie Dat!
I never doubted Reynolds was going to bounce back. His 2020 season was just a bad setup for him because he loves watching video and that wasn't allowed in 2020.
The dude is good. That turned out to be one hell of a trade.
The dude is good. That turned out to be one hell of a trade.
ChaosAgent
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They both were that winter. Look at how Musgrove has since performed. We traded one potential ace for another. Then failed to maximize both of them hah.
ChaosAgent
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Gallatin
A Banksy of Goonism
Listed as a minor lower body injury, I'm sure he'll be playing again by May....
ChaosAgent
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Floating a Reynolds trade for fun/sadness.
To Miami: Bryan Reynolds, Wil Crowe
To PIT: Eury Perez, Trevor Rogers, Bryan De La Cruz
Perez is the prize and Rogers is a fantastic bounce-back candidate from a sophomore slump.
To Miami: Bryan Reynolds, Wil Crowe
To PIT: Eury Perez, Trevor Rogers, Bryan De La Cruz
Perez is the prize and Rogers is a fantastic bounce-back candidate from a sophomore slump.
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
If I'm Cherington, I kindly say no, you're not close.
Perez looks like a future stud, pretty wild what he's doing at 19 in AA so I'd wager he might not be movable for Miami anyway, but Rodgers and BDC just don't move the needle enough to get you 3 more years of Reynolds plus Crowe who's got years of control as well and is still a well above average arm out of the pen.
I do like the idea of making a SP the centerpiece of a Reynolds trade. Quality P is the quickest way to a winning season(s). I would really want someone in the upper minors that could be starting for the big club by next summer.
Miami doesn't seem like a team that will honestly go hard given their status as a loser.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Rodgers is downright elite and I'd easily take that gamble on acquiring him when he's having a down year.
But trading Reynolds is a bad idea. I reiterate, Reynolds at his current level is in a price range that the Pirates can afford. The only way they should trade him is if he's so good that he's outside of the Pirates price range, but he's not at that level. A 4 WAR CFer will cost you less than $15 million a year, which the Pirates can absolutely afford to pay.
But trading Reynolds is a bad idea. I reiterate, Reynolds at his current level is in a price range that the Pirates can afford. The only way they should trade him is if he's so good that he's outside of the Pirates price range, but he's not at that level. A 4 WAR CFer will cost you less than $15 million a year, which the Pirates can absolutely afford to pay.
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"You're a boring old man"
Rodgers doesn't have the command to be in the elite class. Yet. Great stuff, but he's to volatile in locating pitches, IMO.
And do you really trust the Shelton staff to turn him around?
Reynolds shouldn't be traded either way. That much I think most people agree on.
And do you really trust the Shelton staff to turn him around?
Reynolds shouldn't be traded either way. That much I think most people agree on.
ChaosAgent
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Fair but you're basically saying I'm not close because they wouldn't include Perez. What if they did include Perez?
DJ Spinoza
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Perez is probably the echelon of prospect that would be best case, bidding war type move for Reynolds, and if you managed to get him and not miss, then maybe you wouldn't lose the trade. It just seems like trading him in any kind of capacity is more or less a white flag after signing Hayes to an extension and the first wave of talent is arriving.
I think there is a broad consensus on that, even though it's unclear what they are going to do with Reynolds. Pitching prospects are so risky as targets, because it can sideways in a hurry, or even if for example you get a guy and he goes down with TJ, if he comes back and is fine, that pushes your return down the road 2.5-3 years.
That said, Perez is the caliber of prospect where you'd have to think about it, doubly so if you basically have no intention of extending Reynolds. I hate this kind of inevitable type logic, since it resigns itself to the cycle of prospects over and over, but it really does come down to that with Reynolds. The alternative would seem to be trying to add this winter and then seeing how it comes together next summer before making a similar assessment at the deadline. I guess if you were confident that the team was making strides and would do so again in 2024, then you still have Reynolds for 24 and 25, so it's not really urgent if an impact return never materializes.
Separately, I do think Rogers would be a great target. The Marlins have good depth, so maybe there's a trade to be had with upper minors type supplementary pieces, and that's even so if you just step back from the kind of campaign he put together last year to assume he's something like a 2 WAR pitcher. It's impossible to try and ballpark Swaggerty's value and he might be an easier name to throw around if he had flashed something and been in MLB longer than a handful of games, but maybe somewhere between him, Castro, or Bae you could find a headliner in a swap that nets you a pitcher to immediately slot in.
I think there is a broad consensus on that, even though it's unclear what they are going to do with Reynolds. Pitching prospects are so risky as targets, because it can sideways in a hurry, or even if for example you get a guy and he goes down with TJ, if he comes back and is fine, that pushes your return down the road 2.5-3 years.
That said, Perez is the caliber of prospect where you'd have to think about it, doubly so if you basically have no intention of extending Reynolds. I hate this kind of inevitable type logic, since it resigns itself to the cycle of prospects over and over, but it really does come down to that with Reynolds. The alternative would seem to be trying to add this winter and then seeing how it comes together next summer before making a similar assessment at the deadline. I guess if you were confident that the team was making strides and would do so again in 2024, then you still have Reynolds for 24 and 25, so it's not really urgent if an impact return never materializes.
Separately, I do think Rogers would be a great target. The Marlins have good depth, so maybe there's a trade to be had with upper minors type supplementary pieces, and that's even so if you just step back from the kind of campaign he put together last year to assume he's something like a 2 WAR pitcher. It's impossible to try and ballpark Swaggerty's value and he might be an easier name to throw around if he had flashed something and been in MLB longer than a handful of games, but maybe somewhere between him, Castro, or Bae you could find a headliner in a swap that nets you a pitcher to immediately slot in.
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
Even with Perez, I wouldn't take it myself because I'm not sold on Rogers and Cruz really does nothing for me as a 3rd piece.
Now if you said Meyer, Perez, and Eder I'd probably pull the trigger. Those are 3 players who range between an ace projection and mid rotation starter and are all in AA/AAA (Eder had TJ surgery last August, but was amazing up until that point in AA). It's a trade that could completely turn your rotation around for 6-7 years. Meyer is just about MLB ready and Perez could see a cup by the end of the year as well.
Do I think Miami takes that? No. But that's the type of package I'd need (3 prospects inside the top 7-8 of an org) to consider moving BR next month.
ChaosAgent
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ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
Hellova start to the year for him. Can't imagine it'll be long before he's up with Bradenton, given that team doesn't have much going for it right now.
ChaosAgent
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Yeah, what an intriguing 2-way player.
Solometo and Bubba have really made up for a lot of dreck at the A-ball levels.
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
Braylon Bishop showing out pretty well so far as well, though he seems like a long shot/project type with better than average potential.
Only guy who hasn't done anything from last year's draft haul is Lonnie White, and he's on the 60 day IL so might not see him this year, which is a bummer. He showed some pop in limited AB's last year in rookie ball.
DJ Spinoza
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I would definitely think about it. Peguero, Bae, Castro, Swaggerty, Gonzales could all be nice players, but getting a bounce back/ok floor SP with 4 years of control would be a good use of depth, i.e., prospect capital, as painful as it is to use that phrase. There are obvious differences of pedigree and risk in that list, but if you believed in Rogers to bounce back especially, then it would be a pretty easy gamble to take for me. The downside would be if Rogers control never got right and instead of the floor being a solid #3/4, it's more of a replacement/depth guy.
It's nice to see that Chandler has started scorching hot and it will be interesting to see when and how he adjusts to low A. People say that there's a pretty big leap from complex league to affiliated ball, but in the early going it certainly seems like it's worth challenging him. How slow they take it may depend on some behind the scenes stuff with developing pitches - at least that's my guess.
Just pointing out the obvious, but it's worth emphasizing that Chandler is essentially a mid-first round talent, so expectations should be pretty high that he start rising into the top ranks on a prospect list once he gets another year or so of experience under his belt.
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"You're a boring old man"
The man's name is Bubba. he will amount to nothing.
He will probably be a stud, just not with the Pirates lol.
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"You're a boring old man"
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"You're a boring old man"
Empoleon8771
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Finally, Chang is gone. I wonder if Marcano is up to stay for good, his position versatility is a really welcome addition and he's been really solid in the majors so far.
DJ Spinoza
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I'm moderately surprised, just because I thought we might drag our feet with Marcano's rehab and maybe even keep him down for just a bit. He is obviously deserving of the spot based on merit, and was in quite a good place before he went on the IL, so hopefully he can hit the ground running.
If I'm following correctly, a pitcher will have to go for Underwood (likely Brice), so that leaves Gamel, Newman, and Yoshi left. I would assume Park is optioned, and then honestly I hope the plan is to option Castillo and effectively decide between VanMeter and Yoshi. I could they could slow roll it with Yoshi if they want, but I just don't see how you add all that back and a guy like Madris goes. In theory there's also still Marisnik as well, and though I think everyone should wait about two months before thinking much one way or the other with Madris, we might as well see what we have there.
Castillo's HRs have changed the equation a bit maybe, but given that 15 days in the minors will secure an extra year of control, it's probably a no brainer for them. I guess you could be fine optioning Madris with Gamel set for everyday playing time, with the idea of adding some asset for Gamel via trade and still getting 2 months for Madris (or Mitchell or Swaggerty if one is playing better) at the end of the season.
If I'm following correctly, a pitcher will have to go for Underwood (likely Brice), so that leaves Gamel, Newman, and Yoshi left. I would assume Park is optioned, and then honestly I hope the plan is to option Castillo and effectively decide between VanMeter and Yoshi. I could they could slow roll it with Yoshi if they want, but I just don't see how you add all that back and a guy like Madris goes. In theory there's also still Marisnik as well, and though I think everyone should wait about two months before thinking much one way or the other with Madris, we might as well see what we have there.
Castillo's HRs have changed the equation a bit maybe, but given that 15 days in the minors will secure an extra year of control, it's probably a no brainer for them. I guess you could be fine optioning Madris with Gamel set for everyday playing time, with the idea of adding some asset for Gamel via trade and still getting 2 months for Madris (or Mitchell or Swaggerty if one is playing better) at the end of the season.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
That's the going rate for a superstar in their early 20's.
Gotta believe Reynolds is worth at minimum 16M per year, which is half of Soto's current offer. And I think the number would be at least 20 if not a touch higher. BR is on pace to be worth about 4 WAR this year, more if he stays hot. Was 6 last year and 4 in his rookie season so I'd wager you have to think he's an easy 4 moving forward and possibly as much as 5 as far as projections go through age 30.
That's going to net you close to 20M per year, as a plus defender in CF.
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