News Article: Rachel Doerrie has left the Canucks

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God

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Apr 2, 2007
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You and people who think like you are a major problem in society.

This thread has been overwhelmingly positive. Yet, you have decided that for those that aren't positive you know their true motivation and it is something more sinister than it probably is. You also tell on yourself when even though you yourself say "a few people" you have decided to extrapolate those people to be "a lot of our society".

I think it's pretty clear they're referring to a specific poster in this thread, but the syntax to me implies that the line of thinking regarding her hiring as a "diversity hire" is rooted in misogyny. I am not really sure there's an argument to be made there about an inappropriate extrapolation? She's got a background in analytics at both the pro and amateur level, and was hired as a data analyst.

Also the issue is something that's coming up a lot in society; the National Post published an op-ed from Jordan Peterson decrying diversity hires in academia maybe two days ago. I'm not making a comment on what he said, simply pointing out that there are conversations happening about this and people definitely have those types of opinions.
 
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F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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Dude what in the f*** are you talking about

MS said that reporters/journalists etc. don't make things up. That it doesn't happen. They don't risks their careers like that. Zero chance of that happening. Using the same logic, kind of makes sense that MS would believe everything Tucker Carlson says no? But I won't presume.
 

RandV

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MS said that reporters/journalists etc. don't make things up. That it doesn't happen. They don't risks their careers like that. Zero chance of that happening. Using the same logic, kind of makes sense that MS would believe everything Tucker Carlson says no? But I won't presume.

Just looking at this page without any other context, Tucker Carlson isn't a reporter or a journalist. He deals more in the 'editorial' space which is opinion and technically & legally is better classified as an 'entertainer'.

For hockey media there's a certain context you have to apply to it, considering the severity of what a sports media/journalist may be reporting and the ambiguity in whether they're reporting or speculating.
 

MarkMM

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I'm happy with the hiring because she seems bright, has experience in where Benning under-invested, and the willingness to hire someone who spoke ill of the franchise signifies that the Benning era of shutting dissenting voices hopefully is over.

I don't really care that she's a woman, and anyone who dislikes hiring her for being a woman is just past their time in belonging to society.

At the same time, it strikes me as a bit hypocritical when some people say "She wouldn't be getting all this negative attention if she was a man" and then they're also the first to celebrate "I'm so happy we finally hired a woman". Which is it? Either you don't think her gender should matter or you think it does, but there's something off with attacking people if they question her gender in a negative way (which I think is wrong) but then celebrate with virtue signalling by pointing out her gender as a positive.

I don't think it should be a negative that she's a woman and wouldn't go all virtue signalling that we hired a woman either.

We hired a professional, that's what she deserves to be celebrated as.
 

Melvin

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I'm happy with the hiring because she seems bright, has experience in where Benning under-invested, and the willingness to hire someone who spoke ill of the franchise signifies that the Benning era of shutting dissenting voices hopefully is over.

I don't really care that she's a woman, and anyone who dislikes hiring her for being a woman is just past their time in belonging to society.

At the same time, it strikes me as a bit hypocritical when some people say "She wouldn't be getting all this negative attention if she was a man" and then they're also the first to celebrate "I'm so happy we finally hired a woman". Which is it? Either you don't think her gender should matter or you think it does, but there's something off with attacking people if they question her gender in a negative way (which I think is wrong) but then celebrate with virtue signalling by pointing out her gender as a positive.

I don't think it should be a negative that she's a woman and wouldn't go all virtue signalling that we hired a woman either.

We hired a professional, that's what she deserves to be celebrated as.

I haven't seen a single person say this, though. You should ask yourself why you are fabricating such a thing (and using dumb Twitter catch phrases instead of speaking English.)

As far as I know, she is the fourth member of this Analytics group, and I don't believe we had a dedicated thread dedicated to any of the other three, one way or another, let alone people trying to litigate everything they said on a podcast for 7 pages.

Having said that, hiring a woman IS a big deal, unfortunately, and I think it's wrong to ignore that. You can play the "her gender shouldn't matter" card, but the fact is that it HAS mattered for the last 100 years. You can't ignore that.
 

BrentSopelsHair

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Mar 2, 2016
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MS said that reporters/journalists etc. don't make things up. That it doesn't happen. They don't risks their careers like that. Zero chance of that happening. Using the same logic, kind of makes sense that MS would believe everything Tucker Carlson says no? But I won't presume.
Fox has argued in court that their editorial hosts are entertainment programs and not meant to convey truth or present facts, so I'd say that's that covered

Just a colossally bad faith argument
 

TruGr1t

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Jun 26, 2003
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Seems similar to when they hired Ryan Biech. More young people in analytics roles should be good.
 

BrentSopelsHair

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Mar 2, 2016
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I haven't seen a single person say this, though. You should ask yourself why you are fabricating such a thing (and using dumb Twitter catch phrases instead of speaking English.)

As far as I know, she is the fourth member of this Analytics group, and I don't believe we had a dedicated thread dedicated to any of the other three, one way or another, let alone people trying to litigate everything they said on a podcast for 7 pages.

Having said that, hiring a woman IS a big deal, unfortunately, and I think it's wrong to ignore that. You can play the "her gender shouldn't matter" card, but the fact is that it HAS mattered for the last 100 years. You can't ignore that.
I don't think its fabrication, considering we have absolutely seen people on this board using misogynistic inferences to question the hiring. Not outwardly saying "I don't like it because she's a woman" but saying things more along the lines of "Well she's headstrong and I don't know if she'll be accepted into the group, which could cause issues" which is classic coded language for someone who is an outsider.

And you're right, it's genuinely a big deal to hire a woman for these kinds of roles, and will be for a while until it's commonplace. Pretending otherwise is just ignoring facts, agreed. All in all I'd just guess that people are using her hiring as an excuse to posture (myself included!) and it really isn't worth getting too worked up about in the end
 

Melvin

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I don't think its fabrication, considering we have absolutely seen people on this board using misogynistic inferences to question the hiring. Not outwardly saying "I don't like it because she's a woman" but saying things more along the lines of "Well she's headstrong and I don't know if she'll be accepted into the group, which could cause issues" which is classic coded language for someone who is an outsider.

And you're right, it's genuinely a big deal to hire a woman for these kinds of roles, and will be for a while until it's commonplace. Pretending otherwise is just ignoring facts, agreed. All in all I'd just guess that people are using her hiring as an excuse to posture (myself included!) and it really isn't worth getting too worked up about in the end

The part that I was claiming was fabricated was the claim that people were saying "I'm so glad we hired a woman." I didn't see anyone say that in this thread. But I might have missed it.

When people say, we should ignore her gender altogether, I think that's coming from the right place but I also think it's wrong. I have female friends who work in these sorts of roles and it is genuinely a huge deal that these positions are finally available to them when they never had been before. When the Canucks made this hire I sent a text about it to one of them; it is a big deal. I understand preferring to focus on her skillset, her background, her qualifications, and so forth, and of course that is what matters at the end of the day, but it doesn't feel quite right either to say "we should ignore the fact that she's a woman." Like no, we should absolutely celebrate that it is now possible for smart women with the right skillset to get jobs like this when they were absolutely never able to get them before on account of their gender. I don't think that's "VirTUE SignALlIng" which is just a dumb internet buzzphrase, and I think it's wrong to label it as such.
 

lawrence

Registered User
May 19, 2012
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Hmmm,,, calling her bluff on she having other offers. But glad to have her aboard. Have to watch out for her, since she’s from an area of being anti Canuck.
 

Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
Oct 6, 2013
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If that's true it's pretty impressive for Rutherford as well, that he was able to sell his vision to make Vancouver the top choice.

I am feeling something very strange lately ... is it ... is it excitement for the direction of our team? Is that what this is? Or am I just drunk?
wait til they announce sean burke as part of the staff lol
 

Vector

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Feb 2, 2007
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I don’t want Burke but a part of me also wonders if he’s a Tony Deangelo moneypuck management signing who wouldn’t be available if not for his history.

As far as I can tell, he’s still employed by the Canadiens.
 

Gstank

Registered User
Apr 27, 2015
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Just to touch on the Fox thing. Fox should lose there "Fox News" title and just become "Fox entertainment"

Back to the topic at hand. I hope that the analytic department in general is able to help find us some cheap bargins on the trade market. The only example of a player who exceeded expectations that I can remember is JT Miller. Everyone else has been pretty much what we thought they would be. It would especially help if said player was a Defenseman.
 

Red

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Dec 14, 2002
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You and people who think like you are a major problem in society.

This thread has been overwhelmingly positive. Yet, you have decided that for those that aren't positive you know their true motivation and it is something more sinister than it probably is. You also tell on yourself when even though you yourself say "a few people" you have decided to extrapolate those people to be "a lot of our society".

You seem oddly upset about the fact that I simply pointed out that there are actually people in this thread in the 21st century saying she's a "diversity hire" without backing it up with anything. The thread has been more positive than negative because there's more good posters and good people than bad ones and that's great, not because this kind of mindset isn't something that is sadly still too present in society still, as evidenced by certain comments in this thread. Even one is too many. The fact me and people who think this way are the actual "problem in society" (lmao) according to you says EVERYTHING about you and none of it is good.

You're literally spilling tea allll over yourself and the fact you might be someone who is aligned with their misogyny by being upset over something this benign. Stay triggered as the world changes for the better around you.
 
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MarkMM

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Jan 30, 2010
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I haven't seen a single person say this, though. You should ask yourself why you are fabricating such a thing (and using dumb Twitter catch phrases instead of speaking English.)

As far as I know, she is the fourth member of this Analytics group, and I don't believe we had a dedicated thread dedicated to any of the other three, one way or another, let alone people trying to litigate everything they said on a podcast for 7 pages.

Having said that, hiring a woman IS a big deal, unfortunately, and I think it's wrong to ignore that. You can play the "her gender shouldn't matter" card, but the fact is that it HAS mattered for the last 100 years. You can't ignore that.


Sorry if I hit a sensitive spot, will try to be more clear.

People have been celebrating that we hired a woman, and it’s fine to mark that milestone, but it also seems that what happens here sometimes is people get accused misogyny just for questioning her work. The whole "Would you have had these questions if she was a man?" line, well, by the same token, we also wouldn't be celebrating a low level hire if this were a man, the effect of the spotlight legitimately goes both ways, people find things they like and dislike, and it seems unbalanced if noticing the good is celebrated and noticing the bad is sexist. Of course no one would be noticing those bad things if she weren't a woman, the same way we wouldn't be noticing the GOOD things if she weren't the first woman.

That double standard does feel like virtue signalling to me, whether you like that term or not, in cases like this it seems like an accurate description of the behaviour.

For the record, I've had no problem with the comments she made on social media, I'd been hoping she’d get hired (I believe I’m on record somewhere here for mentioning her as someone I liked along with Angela Ruggiero and Meghan Chayka), I had a great laugh at how she colourfully called for accountability on Benning, and I'm happy we’re investing in analytics.

Part of where I'm coming from is that yes, many women (and men) will rightly celebrate this milestone, but that’s not a monopoly on dictating how people should react to this. I’ve worked in politics and software (two areas where it’s been historically hard for women to excel) and when women have succeeded and become stars I’ve heard from some of them that their personal preference is to be recognized for their work and not be used as a symbol for other people’s agendas. Not that I’m accusing you of that, but taking a position to prefer recognizing work (good and bad) on merit and not focus primarily on their gender on the good or accuse anyone of sexism when they notice the bad shouldn’t suddenly upset people.
 
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drax0s

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Mar 18, 2014
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If that's true it's pretty impressive for Rutherford as well, that he was able to sell his vision to make Vancouver the top choice.

I am feeling something very strange lately ... is it ... is it excitement for the direction of our team? Is that what this is? Or am I just drunk?
That's hope. It's a weird feeling.
 
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