Race to the bottom - Rebuild thread #2.

[SprDaVE]

As the poster above said, those teams that didn't do well after drafting high was because they either had bad management or don't spend enough to build around those good players.
SprDave how would you go about making the Leaf team better? You don't believe in tanking but the way the team has been built obviously isn't working.

Well for one, I'd stop trading our top young talent because they are struggling.

Fans want a rebuild but have no patience for one. Funny how that works.

I think our core is a lot better than people give credit for. The same core that brought a fairly good team last season. We are sucking bad right now but it has nothing to do with the "core" players. If we finish last than so be it but trading away every player to get there is being so ignorant to the issue.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Drafting is vital to attain the high level core pieces... But the building blocks is much harder. Sometimes teams get it right, some get it wrong. Good scouting/management is also part of that process.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

They are the worst teams in the league and they have been in a long time. They have all finished near the bottom of the standings multiple seasons, just like some of the best teams in the league right now. But with the logic around here, they should be a contending team due to drafting high multiple seasons. Why can't I include them? Seems fair to me. Why only mention the good teams that "tanked" but somehow finally became good?

If "tanking" and sucking was the tactic to put yourself as a contender, it would be a lot more consistent to become a top team.

Drafting is very important, 'tanking' is not. This is where people get some ignorant and naive. Asset management is a lot more important than just drafting in the top 5. Teams like Pittsburgh, Chicago and LA are contenders not simply because they were able to draft good players when they bottomed out, they are good for a lot bigger reasons than that.

So what you're saying is drafting needs to also be combined with good management?

 

[gamer1035]

Well for one, I'd stop trading our top young talent because they are struggling.

Fans want a rebuild but have no patience for one. Funny how that works.

I think our core is a lot better than people give credit for. The same core that brought a fairly good team last season. We are sucking bad right now but it has nothing to do with the "core" players. If we finish than so be it but trading away every player to get there is being so ignorant to the issue.

When have they ever traded away young struggling talent? Schenn?????? Please tell me these magical players that would've helped us win a cup. And I don't mean picks, I mean actual young players who are struggling.

 

[Cor]

If we somehow fall low enough to take a **** at getting Ekblad, I'm all for it.

 

[blue82]

this is a good team..everyone needs to get a grip LOL

 

[SprDaVE]

When have they ever traded away young struggling talent? Schenn?????? Please tell me these magical players that would've helped us win a cup. And I don't mean picks, I mean actual young players who are struggling.

Gardiner struggling? Let's trade him!

Kadri struggling? Let's trade him!

Just look at the proposals. It's littered with crap like this. Kadri has been on the block since 2010.

Kadri, Gardiner, JVR, Kessel, Bernier and Rielly is a pretty good core with a lot of upside. I'm not sure if any of them will become a Franchise type of player but I think the latter 2 have a chance at it. Kessel is debatable.

Building on that core, whom were all top 15 drafted talent, is exactly what the fans wanted. With other good young talent like Finn, Percy and Gauthier coming up, it should only get better as we finally have young talent signed long-term.

So let's bottom out again! Nothing bad ever comes from sucking! Weeeeeeeeee!

 

[TootooTrain]

this is a good team..everyone needs to get a grip LOL

We're on a losing streak though, which means we're the worst team ever.

 

[rojac]

Gardiner struggling? Let's trade him!

Kadri struggling? Let's trade him!

Just look at the proposals. It's littered with crap like this. Kadri has been on the block since 2010.

Kadri, Gardiner, JVR, Kessel, Bernier and Rielly is a pretty good core with a lot of upside. I'm not sure if any of them will become a Franchise type of player but I think the latter 2 have a chance at it. Kessel is debatable.

Building on that core, whom were all top 15 drafted talent, is exactly what the fans wanted. With other good young talent like Finn, Percy and Gauthier coming up, it should only get better as we finally have young talent signed long-term.

So let's bottom out again! Nothing bad ever comes from sucking! Weeeeeeeeee!

Your original post on this did sound like you wanted the Leafs to stop trading young talent as opposed to what it seems you wanted to say which was that you wanted Leaf fans to stop suggesting the trading of young talent.

 

[SprDaVE]

So what you're saying is drafting needs to also be combined with good management?

There's a lot more than just that but good management will give you the best chance at having a cup contender. Luck is also pretty important --- just ask Pittsburgh with Crosby.

 

[SprDaVE]

Your original post on this did sound like you wanted the Leafs to stop trading young talent as opposed to what it seems you wanted to say which was that you wanted Leaf fans to stop suggesting the trading of young talent.

Thanks for clearing it up for me?

 

[Wendelstache]

You know, we can't even get sucking right.
We even suck at sucking.....

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

SPRDave is on the money. But I still think we are three pieces away.

 

[Baarle*]

This is a horrible, horrible idea and I question your intelligence. Nonetheless, if we tank I'd rather Ekblad. We need a steady defenceman more than a centre

 

[Ace88*]

...is this thread for real? We make the playoffs, take the eventual finalists to 7 games, then play poorly less than halfway into a full season and people are going full tank mode? Im going to express ship you a wake-up slap.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

SPRDave is on the money. But I still think we are three pieces away.

2-3 high end pieces is what I'd say.

Identify the core to build around that will be here in 2+ or 3+ years from now like Phaneuf, Kessel, Rielly, Kadri, JVR, Gardiner and probably Bernier over Reimer.

Everyone else is expendable (and quite a few need to be dealt this season or next) which includes guys like Raymond, McClement, Franson, Gunnarson, Lupul, Kulemin, Bozak as they are either in the mid to late stages of their prime or simply don't have a high enough skill (but are well compensated for it) to be a key piece to build around.

Not all need to traded but this team needs to gut most of the middle part of the lineup and do a retool to bring in cheap young players that free up cap space.

Chicago did this after their 1st Cup win where they had to take a step back before they could take another run at a cup. But having guys like Pirri, Saad, Kruger, Shaw, Leddy on cheap contract was a huge part in them being able to afford their top players.

 

[Quarter]

Dave has more sense than the rest of this thread combined.

 

[Cor]

Randy Carlyle has never been outside of a playoff spot as the coach of the Leafs, with the exception of the 11 or so games after he took over for Ron Wilson.

#FireCarlyle

 

[Quarter]

Randy Carlyle has never been outside of a playoff spot as the GM of the Leafs, with the exception of the 11 or so games after he took over for Ron Wilson.

#FireCarlyle

Foolproof.

 

[SprDaVE]

Randy Carlyle has never been outside of a playoff spot as the coach of the Leafs, with the exception of the 11 or so games after he took over for Ron Wilson.

#FireCarlyle

Jokes on you, Carlyle has never been the GM of the Leafs.

EDIT:

Dang you ninja edited that.

 

[egd27]

Patience is a virtue that this fanbase does not have.

We finally have a capable CEO with a passion, vision and history of success, have solid pieces in place, solid young players and this fan base already wants to blow it up because success isn't immediately seen.

If the fans and the media had their way the Leafs would constantly be a circus, a revolving door, of coaching, players, managers, with never any success and the roster recycling every few years.

In coding terms, the leafs would be stuck in an infinite loop.

That's what we do have, and have had since I can remember.

(and I go back to Dave Keon and Bruce Gamble)

 

[Audi*]

ill bump this thread in april so OP and his supporters can see how stupid they are

 

[Pyrophorus]

One of the things I don't get, is how this team with its offense, is now outshooting the other team, and scoring FAR less?

 

[pooleboy]

We have some nice young peices, but no top center you need to win it all. Maybe management trades Dion Phil bozo lupul and clarkson and goes all in for mcdavid. Then we will have alot if cap space (hopefully nonis is gone so we won't waste it) and a great young core, then plan the parade.

Even the most loyal leaf fan will admit this current core will never win the cup.

all in for mcdavid, i would be in favour for HOWEVER leafs wont do that. EVER... might as well stop thinking about tanking, Raptors cant even tank right and this years #1 pick could bring the franchise fortunes for over 10 years.

 

[pooleboy]

I understand the frustration but I personally don't move Phil. I'd sooner move Kadri, I'm starting to think that all that flash won't mean anything in the long run (Ribeiro)

tbh if im trying to get McDavid, kessel is one of the players imo that would have to go the other way for a team to even consider trading that pick. McDavid-Kadri-Bolland... now theres a center core that can win a cup.