Race to the bottom - Rebuild thread #2.

[Billy6]

Assuming this trend continues, how long will it be before they fire Carlyle? And, will they turn on Nonis not long afterwards?

Or, can the Leafs turn it around in the wonky & weak Eastern conference.

Paradoxical opposites.

So what if they turn it around in the weak East. Are they going to win the Cup? Do they have a chance of even making it to the second round? I don't think so.

Why are so many people willing to except the fact that the Leafs might make the playoffs in the weakest conference in the NHL as satisfactory? I don't get it.

I want to see a Leafs team that is a legit Stanley Cup contender not a team that just hopes to sneak into the playoffs with no hope in winning it all.

 

[Orfieus]

JVR
Bozak
Kessel
------
Lupal
Kadri
Clarkson


That is our top6. Nothing in our farm system is going to replace any of them anytime soon. Is that a top6 that can win a cup?

 

[Havoc]

Kessel is simply not a player to build around, he needs to be traded to an obscure market where he isn't the primary player, I've said it many times, he is simply not a winner and throws the towel fast, every time someone touches him you can see him on the bench cringing and almost crying. The guy is not built for this, trade him and get young assets for him, lots of teams need a goal scorer.

And while you're at it trade Phaneuf too, I firmly believe that by trading these 2 players the team culture will vastly improve. He is not the leader many claim he is and quite frankly after Gardiner which has a huge lead he has also been the cause of many goals this season.

Ohh and trade Gardiner ASAP, someone might need a second pairing PP QB out there, get value out of him before he's fully exposed and it becomes too late.

I also noticed he's always laughing and laid back every shift. Everyone is his friend. I would prefer a no-nonsense guy like Toews for our top forward. All business during the game.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

I also noticed he's always laughing and laid back every shift. Everyone is his friend. I would prefer a no-nonsense guy like Toews for our top forward. All business during the game.

I look at Kessel like Marleau.

Marleau wasn't the problem in San Jose he simply needed to be put behind Thornton as the most important forward.

Kessel isn't the problem. He's a great point producer like Marleau, St. Louis, Kane, Perry, Neal but he won't ever be the franchise center that these guys flank.

 

[DaveT83*]

I look at Kessel like Marleau.

Marleau wasn't the problem in San Jose he simply needed to be put behind Thornton as the most important forward.

Kessel isn't the problem. He's a great point producer like Marleau, St. Louis, Kane, Perry, Neal but he won't ever be the franchise center that these guys flank.

Gee welcome to 2008 pal. Glad you could make it.


Here's the problem. We gave up a fortune for this guy. It bankrupted the franchise of any organizational talent/depth. Now you want to what? Go out and continue to spend organizational talent/depth/assets to help facilitate him for 8 years at 8M as a secondary piece in a winning equation?


What a ****ing brilliant idea. Almost as genius as trading away a 2nd overall stud C - a 9th overall stud D - and a 2nd to acquire him.

 

[sync95]

I look at Kessel like Marleau.

Marleau wasn't the problem in San Jose he simply needed to be put behind Thornton as the most important forward.

Good comparison. Marleau has always been seen as a skilled guy who could put up points, but never quite got full marks for his leadership/ demeanor. They even stripped him of the "C" back in 2007 if I recall correctly. If we look at the success (or lack thereof) of Marleau's NHL career as a comparable to Kessel's, it becomes apparent that No. 81 would better serve as a complementary scoring winger than the focal point of the offence. I wish the Leafs had a Toews type to build around

 

[Judas Tavares]

I look at Kessel like Marleau.

Marleau wasn't the problem in San Jose he simply needed to be put behind Thornton as the most important forward.

Kessel isn't the problem. He's a great point producer like Marleau, St. Louis, Kane, Perry, Neal but he won't ever be the franchise center that these guys flank.

Good comparison. Marleau has always been seen as a skilled guy who could put up points, but never quite got full marks for his leadership/ demeanor. They even stripped him of the "C" back in 2007 if I recall correctly. If we look at the success (or lack thereof) of Marleau's NHL career as a comparable to Kessel's, it becomes apparent that No. 81 would better serve as a complementary scoring winger than the focal point of the offence. I wish the Leafs had a Toews type to build around

This. With a rising cap and good cap choices in the future, don't see why you can't have two $8 million forwards.

 

[alcanalz]

When he played for Calgary doesn't count. Nice try though.

What has he accomplished since he came to Toronto?

Lol. Why wouldn't that count.

You said neither of them has been a first or second team all-star... you were wrong. Phaneuf has.

Nice try though.

 

[Rare Jewel]

JVR
Bozak
Kessel
------
Lupal
Kadri
Clarkson


That is our top6. Nothing in our farm system is going to replace any of them anytime soon. Is that a top6 that can win a cup?

There could be.

Both Leivo and Johnson have a chance to top 6ers, To what extent of the chance that can be debated further. But considering you have Clarkson as part of the top 6 you should probably give them the benefit of the doubt.

Verhaeghe is another who may develop into scoring forward

 

[egd27]

Gee welcome to 2008 pal. Glad you could make it.


Here's the problem. We gave up a fortune for this guy. It bankrupted the franchise of any organizational talent/depth. Now you want to what? Go out and continue to spend organizational talent/depth/assets to help facilitate him for 8 years at 8M as a secondary piece in a winning equation?


What a ****ing brilliant idea. Almost as genius as trading away a 2nd overall stud C - a 9th overall stud D - and a 2nd to acquire him.

It bankrupted the franchise of any organizational talent/depth?

Perhaps you should write soap opera scripts, or Republican speeches.

What dramatic prose.

 

[Morbo]

Gee welcome to 2008 pal. Glad you could make it.


Here's the problem. We gave up a fortune for this guy. It bankrupted the franchise of any organizational talent/depth. Now you want to what? Go out and continue to spend organizational talent/depth/assets to help facilitate him for 8 years at 8M as a secondary piece in a winning equation?


What a ****ing brilliant idea. Almost as genius as trading away a 2nd overall stud C - a 9th overall stud D - and a 2nd to acquire him.

what in the holy hell are you talking about?

and even if they did, what do you want to do, trade the guy for what exactly? and how would that recoup such a "disastrous" trade?

you're just angry with no real plan.

 

[Byron Bitz]

JVR
Bozak
Kessel
------
Lupal
Kadri
Clarkson


That is our top6. Nothing in our farm system is going to replace any of them anytime soon. Is that a top6 that can win a cup?

yes.

 

[Johny Drama]

I look at Kessel like Marleau.

Marleau wasn't the problem in San Jose he simply needed to be put behind Thornton as the most important forward.

Kessel isn't the problem. He's a great point producer like Marleau, St. Louis, Kane, Perry, Neal but he won't ever be the franchise center that these guys flank.

Nonis made the point during press conference, maybe similar to this one. He looked at a number of recent cup winners and and he thought they all had that guy who was similar to Kessel. Not a two way player, maybe not a team leader, but a player who has game breaking skill. I'm guessing he was thinking of some of the guys you listed.

 

[Joey Hoser]

JVR
Bozak
Kessel
------
Lupal
Kadri
Clarkson


That is our top6. Nothing in our farm system is going to replace any of them anytime soon. Is that a top6 that can win a cup?

Yes, easily. Bozak is a weak as a #1 C but the rest excel in their roles, enough to make up for Bozak. That top six as a whole is among the league's best.

 

[gamer1035]

maybe this team sucking is a good thing....

We have some nice young peices, but no top center you need to win it all. Maybe management trades Dion Phil bozo lupul and clarkson and goes all in for mcdavid. Then we will have alot if cap space (hopefully nonis is gone so we won't waste it) and a great young core, then plan the parade.

Even the most loyal leaf fan will admit this current core will never win the cup.

 

[WilliamNylander]

McDavid/Kadri down the middle

Rielly-Ekblad and Gardiner-Finn

cup contender core

 

[CreeksideStrangler]

We will unfortunately never suck enough to get McDavid

 

[Grant]

We will unfortunately never suck enough to get McDavid

Just need to miss the playoffs for a chance at McDavid.

 

[Daisy Jane]

so did the drafting template changing next year, to give everyone a chance for the #1?

 

[Banic]

I understand the frustration but I personally don't move Phil. I'd sooner move Kadri, I'm starting to think that all that flash won't mean anything in the long run (Ribeiro)

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Two Words: Tim Lewieke.

He will damn well put his mark on the team. He is doing a good job with TFC and Raptors.

 

[jmart21]

If you think what a young team needs is more losing, you're not going to get better.

If we were to bottom out and pick 1st overall we'd get a very good prospect.

In order for this to happen:

-We'd have to see both Reimer and Bernier play horrible. We'd likely be talking about how we need to aquire a new goalie.

-Our young guys Kadri, JVR, Gardiner etc would have had to have played terrible as well.

I could go on.

Point is: in order for us to pick high, we'd need every good young player we have to take a step back. It's not going to go: Lose> Pick a No1 C> go back to winning. We'd come out of it with some Luke Schenn style scarring on our young players.

I for one would rather us see our young players work hard to become better.

 

[SprDaVE]

Sucking is never a good thing.

 

[gamer1035]

If you think what a young team needs is more losing, you're not going to get better.

If we were to bottom out and pick 1st overall we'd get a very good prospect.

In order for this to happen:

-We'd have to see both Reimer and Bernier play horrible. We'd likely be talking about how we need to aquire a new goalie.

-Our young guys Kadri, JVR, Gardiner etc would have had to have played terrible as well.

I could go on.

Point is: in order for us to pick high, we'd need every good young player we have to take a step back. It's not going to go: Lose> Pick a No1 C> go back to winning. We'd come out of it with some Luke Schenn style scarring on our young players.

I for one would rather us see our young players work hard to become better.

we don't need to get rid of any of our goalies. Hell, we don't even need to get rid of Phil. Just get rid of Dion and tell me how many games we can win with that defense core

 

[indigobuffalo]

Can't see the Leafs trading Phaneuf, especially if they get him at $7M/7YRS which would be awesome, especially with the cap projected to increase towards $80M+ over the next few years.

Phil Kessel I could see being moved because if you look at the top 3 in Anaheim, Perry Getzlaf and Ryan, Ryan is the most similar player to Kessel (although really Kadri is more similar to Ryan than Kessel is...).

I think Kessel and Kadri are the two guys that Carlyle could do without.

I think JvR and Lupul are mainstays. Bozak should be kept as well, but used as a 2C or better yet 3C once a suitable 1C is found.

Bozak and Bolland at 2C/3C would be golden for years to come. Assuming you had someone that was legit 1C ahead of those two, that would be a C group that would dominate, and especially with Carlyle, play a hard, aggressive game.

Kessel cannot be traded right now because they need the scoring, and Kadri is obviously needed as there are so many injuries to the centres rightn now...