Prospect Info: Quinton Byfield (2nd Overall 2020 Draft) Discussion part II

[Herby]

What was Kempe doing before he broke out? You make it sound like it was evident he was going to become a sniper when Kempes biggest issue was he’d be on fire for ten games and disappear.

I was a Kempe truther. But I thought the skill + speed combination was clearly obvious, in the end he just needed to figure out how to play on the wing, which was also the case with Vilardi, This won’t be the case with QB.

The problems are while making him more effective is not something that will be permanent. The Kings have been adamant about QB staying on the wing. Because he is the Kings last hope for a 1C,

 

[AbsentMojo]

That’s was pretty stupid about the posts on this page. People acting like there was signs for a player breaking out and putting it together vs a player randomly doing it all in one go.

People point to Kempe and Vilardi while pretending they knew Vilardi was suddenly going to put it together. Kempe peaked later for a forward. And Vilardi showed skill yes, but show no cohesion to his game. Yet they use these guys as examples? Vilardi who couldn’t even skate and Kempe who did f*** all for years? Come on.

There wasn’t more than one or two people who saw Vilardi snd said to themselves “Yeah you can tell he’s around the corner” not one person.

Anyone who says they saw the rebirth of Vilardi coming is lying to you.

He came into camp last season on fire - so it was out of the blue. Like anyone was watching him in the summer - and how could you tell since he wasnt playing games.. my point same as yours no one predicted it.. if they did it was luck. But what is predictable is that no developing player under TM has developed quickly - talking correlation here but it looks significant. The only time guys played over their heads when he was forced to play Spence, Bjornfot and Durzi.. who didnt have to have to suffer through his one mistake and your banished plan for young guys... he had no other options.

 

[Herby]

I am disappointed, we were promised a barrage of Axl bookmarks at the end of this season.

 

[tny760]

I am disappointed, we were promised a barrage of Axl bookmarks at the end of this season.

couldn't access em from his GBH account

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I am disappointed, we were promised a barrage of Axl bookmarks at the end of this season.

What are you looking for, I'm happy to oblige. (btw, did you pay Sol his money?)

 

[Bandit]

There are two frustrating forces that I'm seeing as a lurker and sometimes poster on this board, and it's been bothering me.

One force is from a group who seem to take trends, comparisons, some statistics, etc., and seem to then FIRMLY and CONFIDENTLY predict the future of this team and it's development with no caveats or nuance. Great example it is FOR SURE, WITHOUT DOUBT, the case that Vilardi was a bust and would never recover.

I understand and sympathize with the reliance on statistics and trends, that's very level headed and reasonable. However, often it's the case that these posters refuse to acknowledge nuance, refuse to eat crow when they are wrong, and simultaneously continue to FIRMLY and CONFIDENTLY without caveat make other predictions about the future, berating other posters with their predictions.

HOWEVEVR, on the opposite side there are the equally frustrating force of those who appeal to the fuzziness and unpredictability of the future to CONFIDENTLY and FIRMLY state that there is no way that anyone can predict anything, and bludgeon that fuzziness against the other force. They always use fuzziness as "evidence" that their opinions are right.

And with these people it's not that they refuse to eat crow but instead they point to very unlikely outliers as proof that they are right about their opinions all along, IE such as the Vilardi fan saying "AH, I was right all along about him being great"

Reading this board has become increasingly insufferable because both sides are only concerned with appearing right without engaging with nuance. Yes, statistics and history are valuable, and yes the future is fuzzy to predict, and we should simultaneously acknowledge all of these things and engage with open mindedness and respect.

I firmly and definitively predict that the only thing you can predict about the future of this franchise is that they will continue to suck shit so long as BLuc is in charge. Probably.

I am disappointed, we were promised a barrage of Axl bookmarks at the end of this season.

I am disappointed that his ban or whatever it was wasn’t permanent.

 

[Mats26]

What was Kempe doing before he broke out? You make it sound like it was evident he was going to become a sniper when Kempes biggest issue was he’d be on fire for ten games and disappear.

He was taking bad penalties, didn't fit at 3C center, so they tried at wing. Was so so even with good vets on his line. Had good speed, was learning the game, needed to put it all together...

Sound familiar??

 

[Sol]

He was taking bad penalties, didn't fit at 3C center, so they tried at wing. Was so so even with good vets on his line. Had good speed, was learning the game, needed to put it all together...

Sound familiar??

No it doesn’t. Who are you comparing to? Remember Kempe was the last pick of the first round. Projected 3rd liner with upside of second line.

 

[RocketKing]

There are two frustrating forces that I'm seeing as a lurker and sometimes poster on this board, and it's been bothering me.

One force is from a group who seem to take trends, comparisons, some statistics, etc., and seem to then FIRMLY and CONFIDENTLY predict the future of this team and it's development with no caveats or nuance. Great example it is FOR SURE, WITHOUT DOUBT, the case that Vilardi was a bust and would never recover.

I understand and sympathize with the reliance on statistics and trends, that's very level headed and reasonable. However, often it's the case that these posters refuse to acknowledge nuance, refuse to eat crow when they are wrong, and simultaneously continue to FIRMLY and CONFIDENTLY without caveat make other predictions about the future, berating other posters with their predictions.

HOWEVEVR, on the opposite side there are the equally frustrating force of those who appeal to the fuzziness and unpredictability of the future to CONFIDENTLY and FIRMLY state that there is no way that anyone can predict anything, and bludgeon that fuzziness against the other force. They always use fuzziness as "evidence" that their opinions are right.

And with these people it's not that they refuse to eat crow but instead they point to very unlikely outliers as proof that they are right about their opinions all along, IE such as the Vilardi fan saying "AH, I was right all along about him being great"

Reading this board has become increasingly insufferable because both sides are only concerned with appearing right without engaging with nuance. Yes, statistics and history are valuable, and yes the future is fuzzy to predict, and we should simultaneously acknowledge all of these things and engage with open mindedness and respect.

All I know, is I am never wrong LOL

 

[Schrute farms]

All I know, is I am never wrong LOL

I used to be wrong all the time because I thought I might not be correct. But i fixed that issue and now i'm never wrong anymore

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I don’t care who breaks out or when at this point. I just want fresh faces in management with vision and a plan.

 

[lumbergh]

Do we have any clear examples of the game slowing down for someone? The timing and choice on shots/passes as well as getting into spaces is usually a hockey IQ thing. Rarely improvable. I think there's cases where players try to do too much instead of letting the game come to them. As well as cases of players being too tentative and not assertive enough. But you rarely get the decision-making and timing in seeing and getting into spaces at correct times corrected. Which is why I was not a fan of the Kupari pick, who looked at the time to have top line physical ability and skills and bottom 6 brains. Not saying Byfield is that guy, I just wonder whether there were any prospects who improved in that area in NHL, I can't think of any clear examples.

I have posted about this a number of times. The best example is Vilardi. The first full season he played as center he would just skate himself into trouble, thinking he could stick handle his way around three guys. Without the puck he would skate himself out of the play, pursuing the puck but never actually catching up. He kept ending Up on the wrong side of the puck a lot and getting scored on a lot defensively. The Kings recognized that he was not playing smart or using his talents effectively and dropped him to Ontario to learn how to play wing. He learned how to let the game come to him, read the play better, and slow the game down. Find ways to get open and use his shot or vision below the goal line to create offense.

Byfield needs to actually play smarter, not harder. Don‘t go all out all the time. Practice on softer hands so he can instinctively receive passes and make plays. Find quiet spots on the ice. Bury the chances he gets. It took Vilardi a couple years to figure this out. Once Byfield gets it he will be a very effective center in the NHL for a long time.

 

[Statto]

That’s was pretty stupid about the posts on this page. People acting like there was signs for a player breaking out and putting it together vs a player randomly doing it all in one go.

People point to Kempe and Vilardi while pretending they knew Vilardi was suddenly going to put it together. Kempe peaked later for a forward. And Vilardi showed skill yes, but show no cohesion to his game. Yet they use these guys as examples? Vilardi who couldn’t even skate and Kempe who did f*** all for years? Come on.

There wasn’t more than one or two people who saw Vilardi snd said to themselves “Yeah you can tell he’s around the corner” not one person.

Anyone who says they saw the rebirth of Vilardi coming is lying to you.

I’m one that saw it coming IF Vilardis back held out enough to get the extra jump in his skating (which loads the spine).

This is where it’s sometimes about being able to see some of the pieces which look good and that there is a missing piece that will bring it together. Kempe I felt the same about which is why I was so confident he’d repeat and/or exceed his contract year performance. One he stopped deferring he was set.

I genuinely think QB is similar in that there is a lot to work with (I know you don’t see it). IF he gets stronger and gains his confidence in being able to just play rather than focusing on getting the system right I think it will come together for him. Those are IF’s though. There have been some truly elite moments of play and I’d have him watching and rewatching those highlights constantly. He’s been snake bitten but he’s also scored a couple of beautiful goals that most players couldn’t score. Some of the plays he’s made have also been truly elite (the pass to Kempe in January was the years best assist IMO). The challenge is putting it together consistently ever game, every period, every shift. Strength and a full year of health will go a long way BUT they must handle him better, show him trust and ‘love’ because I think that’s what he needs. Then he can play with mental freedom, which I think is what hold him back.

Unfortunately my hopes for Turcotte drop by the day. I’m still rooting for the kid because he has the talent but his ceiling is getting lower, I fear.

They also have to handle Clarke properly. If they put him in the AHL it’d be a travesty. It’d be telling a guy that could be a Calder winner or further down the line a Norris challenger that they don’t trust him. They need to learn from QB… I realise I went off on a tangent.

 

[Statto]

Practice on softer hands so he can instinctively receive passes and make plays.

Exactly but this is where the trust is important, they have him playing too tense. Which is why the elite moments are so infrequent. They need to get him playing with freedom… make him think he is loved and trusted. Yes, this is my mantra with QB‘s development so I make no apologies for labouring the point.

 

[No Name The Nameless]

Is the majority of this board ready to trade him?

What would they realistically get for him? A late first rounder? I’d rather hold.

 

[Reaper45]

Even though I wasn’t a team Byfield member at the time of the pick, (wanted Stutzle instead), I think you hold onto him until he absolutely busts. Same with Turcotte. The potential return on investment is higher keeping them than dealing them for pennies on the dollar.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

No one was saying that for the most part. I don’t remember anyone saying that because Vilardis biggest issue was he couldn’t skate. He was woefully ineffective. There wasn’t a real reason to hold out hope on a player who couldn’t even join the play.

 

[Sol]

View attachment 710365

Congratulations you predicted he will be healthy. Nice leap.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Congratulations you predicted he will be healthy. Nice leap.

yah, pretty huge compared to what most were saying around here....let me guess what your prediction was, probably something along the lines of 'flubbed, bust pick by Blake'.

Oh wait...yah, pretty accurate:

 

[lumbergh]

That’s was pretty stupid about the posts on this page. People acting like there was signs for a player breaking out and putting it together vs a player randomly doing it all in one go.

People point to Kempe and Vilardi while pretending they knew Vilardi was suddenly going to put it together. Kempe peaked later for a forward. And Vilardi showed skill yes, but show no cohesion to his game. Yet they use these guys as examples? Vilardi who couldn’t even skate and Kempe who did f*** all for years? Come on.

There wasn’t more than one or two people who saw Vilardi snd said to themselves “Yeah you can tell he’s around the corner” not one person.

Anyone who says they saw the rebirth of Vilardi coming is lying to you.

There were some of us who did state that Vilardi would be more effective as a winger than a center. I was not bothered by the Kings sending him to the AHL to try a new position. Some of us are more patient with young prospects, especially those who were sidelined for extended periods due to injury/illness, than others.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

there were plenty of people here bullish on Vilardi and to pretend that's not the case after the shit slinging that occured back then is ignorant at best willfully insulting at worst.

Remember that when it happens with Byfield, too.

 

[King'sPawn]

there were plenty of people here bullish on Vilardi and to pretend that's not the case after the shit slinging that occured back then is ignorant at best willfully insulting at worst.

Remember that when it happens with Byfield, too.

Heck, back when I was doing prospect ranking polls, some refused to vote for Vilardi, because they were convinced his career was ruined.

 

[Lt Dan]

I always had a soft spot for Vilardi as i have a bad back as well.
The guy I was most wrong about was Kempe.

 

[No Name The Nameless]

I was down on Vilardi back then. I’m happy the Kings didn’t trade him. Im down on Byfield and hope to hell I’m eating crow again.

 

[kingsboy11]

I knew the talent was there with Vilardi, but the back issues were a concern especially when nobody was sure what the actual issue was. But iirc he never needed surgery so it was just something that needed time. Even though that season where he spent most of his time as 2C wasn't great, you could still see the potential there. Converting him to a winger was the right move, less responsibility and allowed him to be himself.

In my mind Kempe was going to average 20 goals, 20 assists. Never in a million years did I think he was going to explode like this. He just was never consistent enough to be relied upon. Turned it around in a big way.

We can be frustrated with how Byfield has progressed and how he has been handled. And as much as he improved being next to Kopi and Kempe, he does need to start producing. Even if it's just up to 15 goals, we just need to start seeing that growth year to year. I'm fine being patient with him, but I get the frustration because of his draft stock.