Prospect Info: Quinton Byfield (2nd Overall 2020 Draft) Discussion part II

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I also doubt ANYONE was predicting Stutzle was going to be a 90+ point player within a couple years of being drafted.
Not to toot my own horn, but I kind of did. I am not sure I gave a time frame, but I definitely thought he would be at that level of production at some point.

What I did not anticipate was him scoring quite so many goals. I thought he may have one or 2 seasons in his entire career where he breaks 30 goals total.

I've written for too long. But the question is 1. Was Byfield what we needed at the time of the draft? 2. Would Stutzle have been what he is with the Kings? 3. Do we have an issue with development? 4. Do we have a plan?

1. I think Byfield fit the type of high end talent the kings wanted. They wanted a Kopitar replacement and the hardest part of Byfield's development would be morphing his game to mirror Kopitar's style of play, but I would say the morph was achieved this season. He not only looks good in the play style, but I would say he actually looks like he will be a better verzion of Kopitar when development timer dings.

2. I like to think he would, but no one will ever really be able to claim he definitively would or would not have as we will never actually know.

3. No idea. Development is pretty tricky considering mental aspects have just as much if not more of an effect on development than physical traits. Like if you want a player to hit/battle in corners, but that was never really part of their game prior, adjusting their mental approach to fit that is probably incredibly hard. Confidence is also a fine line to walk with all prospects. They are going to fail a lot in the NHL and through the failures they still need to believe they are capable of being the best. Work ethic is up there. When they fail how committed will they be to make sure they don't fail next time. In the off-season, how much work will they put in to fix what held them back last season. Overall, I don't think the kings have any issue developing players. Unfortunately, it just takes time.

4. They definitely have a plan. Compete. Then compete again and again. By the time Kopitar retires I do think Byfield will be ready to replace him. By the time Doughty retires Clarke will probably be ready to replace him. They have a very solid younger core for the future. Fiala, Byfield, Clarke, Kempe, and Korpisalo are what I imagine to be locks as the future faces of the franchise. I like Kupari a whole lot too though, and have since they drafted him, down the road I personally would not be surprised to see him be a leader in the organization as well. I don't think Kupari is a lock like the others mentioned, but I do think he could become one.
 
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So, I have some thoughts on the whole Byfield vs. Stutzle debate and some of them have already been brought up but bear with me as I am trying to get to a certain point.

First off, I was in the camp that had a very difficult time choosing which one I would rather have for the Kings in 2020. I think it is safe to say that Stutzle was seen to be the one that has a good upside and is likely to be more productive in the shorter term whereas Byfield had higher upside with bigger bust potential and the upside would be theoretically reached on a longer timeframe. I was quite ok with the pick considering where we were-a team with several remaining Cup winners that was racking up young pieces. Positionally, we had an aging Kopitar, an injured Vilardi and Turcotte who was projected to be a good piece but not clear cut #1C upside.

The issue I see behind this whole debate has to do with the selection, trajectory, team objective and development. I still don't have a problem with the selection and how this has progressed. It's quite understandable for people to be satisfied having a player that has progressed quite nicely like Stutzle and to be envious of that when their player is progressing slowly. To be clear, I do see Stutzle outproducing what people may have originally expected and Byfield may be coming along a bit slower. With that said, I don't see the path for the 2 deviating to far from the mean from what was expected when also considering the deployment.

The area I find to be most troublesome is the team objective and deployment. As much as people talk about taking the BPA in the draft, I think there is a time when that might not necessarily be the best answer. Putting together a team has become a lot more complex with salary cap, age/timeframe, drafting, trading, etc. Teams need a good mix of ELCs/pre-breakout players to compliment the veterans on higher AAVs which has created a greater trend for early draft picks to make the NHL earlier-and thereby putting more value on draft picks in trades. With Blake's messaging regarding the core 4, the main courses were going to be 1. Try to contend with the core before they taper off 2. Let them be the mentors to the younger group until they ride off into the sunset and have a bit more of a deliberate torch passing. From my view, it looks like we were on course 1 and diverted to course 2 which I sense a bit of an unclear direction-to be fair, the pandemic didn't help and Drew's comments about wanting to get back to playing meaningful games may do that (but did you expect him to just sit along for a long rebuild?).

The beginning of the 2020/21 season had us thrust Vilardi into the 2C. Instead of letting him have more than a year to grow into the position, Blake goes out and gets Danault and puts Vilardi in Ontario and changes him from C to W. Surely that was a good boost to his confidence /sarcasm. Not only do we get Danault but we also get Arvidsson plugging 2 top 6 spots in one offseason. The 2 have been good players for us and has contributed greatly but it was a quick turn on the youth gathering process-which I also understand is not necessarily meant to be all used directly for the roster. The success of these 2 combined with a breakout year for Kempe and a resurgence from Quick leads us into the playoffs and here we are this season, with expectations to compete and we bring in Kevin Fiala to add further to the top 6 (I know he doesn't always play there). If we had this type of timeframe and agenda, it might have made more sense to draft a guy like Stutzle but we also have an inherent problem.

So, where I am getting at is: 1. we have a bunch of young promising players who can't crack the lineup 2. for those that have cracked the lineup, the spot that they would be suited for is unavailable 3. we are not at a stage to nurture nor have we been very good at developing. I believe that this is in large part because of a lack of a clear plan. Prospects retain value for a couple years but beyond that, if the players hasn't made it yet, they start to depreciate. Todd is expected to win games at this point and he leans on veterans. Blake is not really forcing Todd to use some of the younger players either-clear case in point Sean Walker. It doesn't really make a lot of sense for the team to help retain value on veterans at the expense of the prospects because they lose development years and value too if using for trades but Blake hasn't addressed this. Depth is great but after a certain point, it's poor asset management. The deployment issue roots from the thought that unless you're Connor McDavid, AHL is good for you. That's almost like saying only Einstein is fit to skip a grade in school (I'm using Einstein as the symbol of genius and not for his prowess in school). And what are we developing at the AHL level? 2-way play and being hard on pucks? That is important but it's essentially a requirement to see any NHL action with the Kings (props to Kaliyev for adding that element-definitely was not his game). It feels like we are trying to create a puzzle that has all square pieces. Fiala is possibly an exception but this is a player that was developed elsewhere. We can highlight some of the hits but I question whether we have really gotten the best out of our prospects.

We haven't had massive hits with our own offensive prospects. Kopitar is probably the only one. If you look at how he developed, he came into the league with Marc Crawford as coach. He was not the most defensive minded coach. Some of his former players in Vancouver and Colorado really blossomed offensively during his time. It's probably not coincidence that Kopitar, Brown, Cammalleri and Frolov had one of their best offensive outputs during the Crawford years. The defense would come later under Terry Murray. Kopitar was probably talented enough to have flourished under either an offensive minded coach or a defensive minded coach but it might have been quite beneficial for a guy like Brown. Just dominating juniors or the minors isn't exactly the way to produce an offensive player. Need to let them try to do that at the NHL level too but it almost feels like we tame that before they get there.

I've written for too long. But the question is 1. Was Byfield what we needed at the time of the draft? 2. Would Stutzle have been what he is with the Kings? 3. Do we have an issue with development? 4. Do we have a plan?
ok @psych3man , I got you Fam!
I am waiting for Lt Dan to to respond to (1) length and (2) complexity of the tws post 2 above.

1) Jesus Christ @tws38 : less is more! Your post was like hearing a story from my girl. What should be a 30 second funny story about an encounter with a dog takes 18 u-turns and is including copious amount of
information like what she had for breakfast, that she had a snag in her nail, and something from a Seinfeld episode. I found myself screaming "get to the f***ing point" which was really the last sentence.



Answering your questions
But the question is
1. Was Byfield what we needed at the time of the draft?
Any team needs a potential dominant #1 center
2. Would Stutzle have been what he is with the Kings? Tough question, but probably not. I haven't seen him play a ton but it;'s much easier to be a good player on a bad team that a good player on a deep team.
3. Do we have an issue with development? I think the Kings forward development needs a nitrous oxide boost. We are very good with D and G, but the F is lacking
4. Do we have a plan- From the time that QB was drafted, the word project was used. If one compares his development to Tage T, He is looking pretty dang good.



IMO BPA is the best way to draft. A team doesn't know what their needs are going to be in 2-5 years. If say a team has 4 #2 d-men they become trade chips for the other pieces that they ultimately need.
I think the last time the Kings really drafted on need was Colten Teubert and well..... Get 'em @Herby !!
 
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Very nice sequence here from 934 on!
Byfield disappointed last night but that is what happens when you are young
 
ok @psych3man , I got you Fam!


1) Jesus Christ @tws38 : less is more! Your post was like hearing a story from my girl. What should be a 30 second funny story about an encounter with a dog takes 18 u-turns and is including copious amount of
information like what she had for breakfast, that she had a snag in her nail, and something from a Seinfeld episode. I found myself screaming "get to the f***ing point" which was really the last sentence.



Answering your questions
But the question is
1. Was Byfield what we needed at the time of the draft?
Any team needs a potential dominant #1 center
2. Would Stutzle have been what he is with the Kings? Tough question, but probably not. I haven't seen him play a ton but it;'s much easier to be a good player on a bad team that a good player on a deep team.
3. Do we have an issue with development? I think the Kings forward development needs a nitrous oxide boost. We are very good with D and G, but the F is lacking
4. Do we have a plan- From the time that QB was drafted, the word project was used. If one compares his development to Tage T, He is looking pretty dang good.



IMO BPA is the best way to draft. A team doesn't know what their needs are going to be in 2-5 years. If say a team has 4 #2 d-men they become trade chips for the other pieces that they ultimately need.
I think the last time the Kings really drafted on need was Colten Teubert and well..... Get 'em @Herby !!
Just channeling my inner Dean Lombardi :)
 
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I think you’d have to be dishonest to suggest that Stutzle wouldn’t be ahead of Byfield by far on the Kings. He was a lot more polished to begin with. Byfield is progressing slowly because he has very little polish and the development sucks. But that doesn’t change the fact that Stutzle was an NHL ready player on draft day and Byfield wasn’t.

It’s a serious cope to suggest otherwise
 
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I think you’d have to be dishonest to suggest that Stutzle wouldn’t be ahead of Byfield by far on the Kings. He was a lot more polished to begin with. Byfield is progressing slowly because he has very little polish and the development sucks. But that doesn’t change the fact that Stutzle was an NHL ready player on draft day and Byfield wasn’t.

It’s a serious cope to suggest otherwise

Complete agree with your point Stutzle was more NHL ready. I feel the point many of us are trying to make with you is LA is atrocious when it comes to developing forwards for their best traits. Stutzle is an offensive dynamo who is putting up PPG, however, LA would slapped him in the AHL to learn a strong two way game.

This would have neutered his offensive skills and we would not be looking at the same talent being allowed to shine like Ottawa is. Stutzle is given every opportunity to play on his strengths. With our development, he would be given the Kupari/Kaliyev treatment.

You are right. TS is more NHL ready while QB was looked more as a project. TS was also sent to a team that maximized his skills and potential while LA has a far different direction when it comes to development.
 
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I think you’d have to be dishonest to suggest that Stutzle wouldn’t be ahead of Byfield by far on the Kings. He was a lot more polished to begin with. Byfield is progressing slowly because he has very little polish and the development sucks. But that doesn’t change the fact that Stutzle was an NHL ready player on draft day and Byfield wasn’t.

It’s a serious cope to suggest otherwise
I think the opposite is happening. Most seem to agree that Stutzle is further along than Byfield. But many (including myself) question if he would be as far along in LA as he is in Ottawa, where they are less rigid in how they handle prospects.
 
I was really impressed with QB against Edmonton.

Can some L.A. fans provide insight?
 
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He's been snakebitten in goalscoring for the second half of the season, so some fans have lost patience in him.

Hoping for 15 G, 30 A next season at least.

He's certainly better than his stats suggest.
Tied for 6th in playoff scoring while ending up 14th in average time on ice. It’s a start but he has to get smarter and stronger and learn to take a breath.

There were blown defensive assignments, shanked shots, and lost battles but he is twenty, lost a ton of development time and lost 15 pounds at the start of the year. He probably still has not gained it all back.

He does not look injured so this off season he can put in some muscle, increase cardio and work on the shot.

He is a split second behind it seems at all times. Saying this he is a 20 year old kid that was burned by two of the best players in the world. I think vast improvements will come.
 
He's been snakebitten in goalscoring for the second half of the season, so some fans have lost patience in him.

Hoping for 15 G, 30 A next season at least.

He's certainly better than his stats suggest.

It's starting to become a little more than snake bitten though. Plays are just dying on his stick and there has been very little improvement in that area.

He's got the speed, power and skills, but he just can't seem to put it together during the game. He either just needs time for his decision making processes to catch up to NHL speed or he has straight up poor hockey IQ.

Without sounding like a broken record, I have hope for Byfield, but that hope fades with each game that he continues to display the same issues. I've been in the 'he's still young" boat, but that slowly becomes less and less of an argument.
 
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Byfield 1-3=4
Hughes 3-1=4
Lafreniere 0-0=0
Kaakko 1-1-=2
Byrum 0-3=3
Mercer 2-1=3
Newhook 0-1=1
Broberg 0-0=0
Beniers 1-0=1
Johnston 1-1=2

I know I'm in the minority and not saying Byfield doesn't deserve criticism because he definitely does. Just looks so bad in so many games. However, I'm going to gve him a bit more time. I know these stats don't mean much but still outscored all of these top prospects and is tied with Hughes. All but Beniers are arguably on better and deeper squads as well. I just look at vilardi and see how he is now, I'm a bit more hopeful than others.
 
It's starting to become a little more than snake bitten though. Plays are just dying on his stick and there has been very little improvement in that area.

He's got the speed, power and skills, but he just can't seem to put it together during the game. He either just needs time for his decision making processes to catch up to NHL speed or he has straight up poor hockey IQ.

Without sounding like a broken record, I have hope for Byfield, but that hope fades with each game that he continues to display the same issues. I've been in the 'he's still young" boat, but that slowly becomes less and less of an argument.
The plays that die on his stick are from certain skills I'm sure he'll work on this offseason. During the season, you could see his improvements on attacking the puck. That comes from reading the play, which gets developed more during the season.

Puck skills - shooting, protection, and strength - mostly see tangible results during the offseason. Which is exactly why he should have been playing more minutes last season.
 
Byfield 1-3=4
Hughes 3-1=4
Lafreniere 0-0=0
Kaakko 1-1-=2
Byrum 0-3=3
Mercer 2-1=3
Newhook 0-1=1
Broberg 0-0=0
Beniers 1-0=1
Johnston 1-1=2

I know I'm in the minority and not saying Byfield doesn't deserve criticism because he definitely does. Just looks so bad in so many games. However, I'm going to gve him a bit more time. I know these stats don't mean much but still outscored all of these top prospects and is tied with Hughes. All but Beniers are arguably on better and deeper squads as well. I just look at vilardi and see how he is now, I'm a bit more hopeful than others.
Sorry these are useless stats, which you also said, so why bring them up.

Most of these players have been much better in the regular season and a couple of games in the playoffs does not change that.

That said, Byfield was ok. A bunch of college players who are older than him, just signed their entry level contract.

Let’s see how he does next year.
 
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Byfield 1-3=4
Hughes 3-1=4
Lafreniere 0-0=0
Kaakko 1-1-=2
Byrum 0-3=3
Mercer 2-1=3
Newhook 0-1=1
Broberg 0-0=0
Beniers 1-0=1
Johnston 1-1=2

I know I'm in the minority and not saying Byfield doesn't deserve criticism because he definitely does. Just looks so bad in so many games. However, I'm going to gve him a bit more time. I know these stats don't mean much but still outscored all of these top prospects and is tied with Hughes. All but Beniers are arguably on better and deeper squads as well. I just look at vilardi and see how he is now, I'm a bit more hopeful than others.
Yea his point totals were good but he did struggle. Add Robertson and Boldy to the list as well.
Byfield gets some slack though because if you watch all the games the only one on that list that isnt struggling this playoff is Hughes.
Its so tough for these young players to play in the playoffs against grown men in their prime.
Byram looks great but has had his struggles especially that game Makar was suspended and he was playing big minutes.
 
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I was really impressed against Edmonton.

Can some L.A. fans provide more insight?

I think he started well and finished poorly this series, looked like he was back to being tentative and too thoughtful.

I'm huge on his upside though, we're still only seeing glimpses, he had a PPG stretch in the season where he helped elevate taht Kopitar Kempe Byfield line to nigh-unstoppable, but then seemed to lose confidence again.

Needs a HUGE offseason of work and HEALTH, he's been hampered by a broken leg and now two illnesses, one in which he lost 20+ pounds.
 
Sorry these are useless stats, which you also said, so why bring them up.

Most of these players have been much better in the regular season and a couple of games in the playoffs does not change that.

That said, Byfield was ok. A bunch of college players who are older than him, just signed their entry level contract.

Let’s see how he does next year.
These stats are useless sure. But for his struggles still outproduces his peers be it one or two points and on a lesser team. It has to count for something very small. But I'm gonna give him time.
 
I think Byfield will be a much better player by the time he enters his 24-26 year old age bracket and I think he does have what it takes to play the center role; however, he also needs to take some significant steps soon. All training wheels should be off and he needs to be given similar wingers that will play at high tempo and bury their chances.

The main thing I need to see out of him is assertiveness. He is the tallest and most skilled in many of his offensive matchups, but he shies away from driving the play or trying to make something happen and gets either pushed off the puck or stopped on the outside. He is obviously a pass-first kind of player, which I understand because so am I now :P but he needs to be taking shots, hitting basic targets on the net, and making the defense chase him a bit. I honestly think he has more to learn from Fiala than Kopitar at this point.

I do think he is a late bloomer and will put a lot of it together. Whether that means he will be a 1st or 2nd line player is up in the air, but I do think he can easily complement the middle 6 in the NHL. The main universal critique and the primary thing that generates fear of being a bust is just his confidence, assertiveness, and drive. He just seems like way too passive of a player with his skillset, speed, and size. Kopitar had a little bit of that, but at the same time, he was much much more potent offensively and didn't suffer from the same indecisiveness that Byfield needs to have beaten out of him.
 
I think Byfield will be a much better player by the time he enters his 24-26 year old age bracket and I think he does have what it takes to play the center role; however, he also needs to take some significant steps soon. All training wheels should be off and he needs to be given similar wingers that will play at high tempo and bury their chances.

The main thing I need to see out of him is assertiveness. He is the tallest and most skilled in many of his offensive matchups, but he shies away from driving the play or trying to make something happen and gets either pushed off the puck or stopped on the outside. He is obviously a pass-first kind of player, which I understand because so am I now :P but he needs to be taking shots, hitting basic targets on the net, and making the defense chase him a bit. I honestly think he has more to learn from Fiala than Kopitar at this point.

I do think he is a late bloomer and will put a lot of it together. Whether that means he will be a 1st or 2nd line player is up in the air, but I do think he can easily complement the middle 6 in the NHL. The main universal critique and the primary thing that generates fear of being a bust is just his confidence, assertiveness, and drive. He just seems like way too passive of a player with his skillset, speed, and size. Kopitar had a little bit of that, but at the same time, he was much much more potent offensively and didn't suffer from the same indecisiveness that Byfield needs to have beaten out of him.

yeah na dI think if there's something he can take from Kopitar--it's that Kopitar would simply charge and gain the line and take a guy with him outside, and due to his size/power, that player could do nothing about it.

If Byfield could add even that to his game, it would go a long way. Right now his little charge the zone and button hook is too read-able. at least learn to back guys off, some variety, that will make both things open up. he needs to realize he can create his own time and space.
 
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