Toggle sidebar

Prospect Info: Quinton Byfield (2nd Overall 2020 Draft) Discussion part II

  • Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
Herby said:
I actually think the affiliate moving from New England to Southern California was actually a detrimental thing for the franchise, because as you mentioned "we want them close" has been taken to just extraordinary levels in comparison to other teams (even though other teams also have affiliates close by) and has caused harm to the potential of many of these guys.

I get the logistical advantage of being able to call-up someone right away, and I'm sure the players prefer SoCal to Manchester for a variety of reasons but I think the AHL usage is so ramped up because they are that close.

Makes the development teams lives easier though, hard to surf and play beach volleyball if you are going to Manchester every other weekend to evaluate players.
Click to expand...
I don't. I think they see what happened with the young guys from the 2012 and 2014 teams and think "oh that's gotta be the only way for success". Toffoli, Pearson, Voynov, King, Muzzin, Quick, Bernier, Nolan, Martinez, Jones, hell even Brown (NHL lockout season but they did it) ... They all spent time in the AHL and, if you watch the 2014 videos, there's even one ABOUT Manchester and some of those guys talking about how beneficial it was.

It's just a holdover in their development ideas that you have to do this right of passage. The thing is, none of those players were high end prospects that were slotting in as top line players in their draft year. That they don't seem to consider each player on a case by case basis and what they need does perplex me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fishhead, Rumpelstiltskin, Schmooley and 2 others
SmytheKing said:
I don't. I think they see what happened with the young guys from the 2012 and 2014 teams and think "oh that's gotta be the only way for success". Toffoli, Pearson, Voynov, King, Muzzin, Quick, Bernier, Nolan, Martinez, Jones, hell even Brown (NHL lockout season but they did it) ... They all spent time in the AHL and, if you watch the 2014 videos, there's even one ABOUT Manchester and some of those guys talking about how beneficial it was.

It's just a holdover in their development ideas that you have to do this right of passage. The thing is, none of those players were high end prospects that were slotting in as top line players in their draft year. That they don't seem to consider each player on a case by case basis and what they need does perplex me.
Click to expand...

I think you hit the nail on the head and that is what us “pretend fans” have been saying. It’s a one-size fits all approach that works tremendously well with second and third tier prospects but not very well with high end ones. The AHL has a place for certain types of prospects, especially the ones you mentioned that were developed by the previous regime.

But again, we heard it basically straight from the mouths of Sauron a couple of weeks ago, they believe in overcooking guys in the AHL and that only McDavid types should jump straight to the NHL. They don’t care about what other teams have successfully done with similar players, they are the smartest men in the room and are going to do it the Kings way.

It will be interesting to see if they do keep Clarke up, the agreement prevents him from playing the whole year down there but they are allowed a certain number of conditioning games. My guess is they get as many AHL conditioning stints as is allowed by the CBA and add to their lead of number of AHL games played by 1st round picks since Blake took over. But no, they aren’t AHL obsessed, how dare I say that, right?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rumpelstiltskin, kevsh, King'sPawn and 1 other person
Herby said:
I think you hit the nail on the head and that is what us “pretend fans” have been saying. It’s a one-size fits all approach that works tremendously well with second and third tier prospects but not very well with high end ones. The AHL has a place for certain types of prospects, especially the ones you mentioned that were developed by the previous regime.

But again, we heard it basically straight from the mouths of Sauron a couple of weeks ago, they believe in overcooking guys in the AHL and that only McDavid types should jump straight to the NHL. They don’t care about what other teams have successfully done with similar players, they are the smartest men in the room and are going to do it the Kings way.

It will be interesting to see if they do keep Clarke up, the agreement prevents him from playing the whole year down there but they are allowed a certain number of conditioning games. My guess is they get as many AHL conditioning stints as is allowed by the CBA and add to their lead of number of AHL games played by 1st round picks since Blake took over. But no, they aren’t AHL obsessed, how dare I say that, right?
Click to expand...

What I struggle to understand with the whole overcooking thing, is what is the reasoning behind it? I mean, who have they overcooked who turned out fantastic? Voynov I would say. Brown really benefitted from the lockout and Quick saw some ECHL time, but I wouldn't call either overcooked. On the other side, I can't think of anyone recent who was absolutely ruined by bringing them up too early. I'm sure there is one but it's nothing that's prevalent.

It would be neat to see the source of their data of why they are doing what they are doing, or if it's more of a gut feeling thing. The only thing I can think of is it's a holdover when Lombardi was making guys earn it, but those teams were stacked so there weren't a lot of spots anyways. It could be that Blake/Luc don't have as much rope as we think they do and they are trying to push too quickly, but I can't think of anything that would indicate that.

I'm not saying I don't agree with acquisitions like Danault and Fiala. Those aren't old guys and they have a lot of years to contribute and are better than a lot of our prospects. It's more the AA/Frk filler type moves, or even the Andersson trade. I'm more in the camp where just about every prospect in the first couple of rounds should be given an extended look and see if they can run with it. Not all of them can show everything in a short camp. They did that with Kupari, and I think we know what we have there. Gotta have a couple spots open for that to happen.
 
Fishhead said:
What I struggle to understand with the whole overcooking thing, is what is the reasoning behind it? I mean, who have they overcooked who turned out fantastic? Voynov I would say. Brown really benefitted from the lockout and Quick saw some ECHL time, but I wouldn't call either overcooked. On the other side, I can't think of anyone recent who was absolutely ruined by bringing them up too early. I'm sure there is one but it's nothing that's prevalent.

It would be neat to see the source of their data of why they are doing what they are doing, or if it's more of a gut feeling thing. The only thing I can think of is it's a holdover when Lombardi was making guys earn it, but those teams were stacked so there weren't a lot of spots anyways. It could be that Blake/Luc don't have as much rope as we think they do and they are trying to push too quickly, but I can't think of anything that would indicate that.

I'm not saying I don't agree with acquisitions like Danault and Fiala. Those aren't old guys and they have a lot of years to contribute and are better than a lot of our prospects. It's more the AA/Frk filler type moves, or even the Andersson trade. I'm more in the camp where just about every prospect in the first couple of rounds should be given an extended look and see if they can run with it. Not all of them can show everything in a short camp. They did that with Kupari, and I think we know what we have there. Gotta have a couple spots open for that to happen.
Click to expand...

I don't know, it makes no sense whatsoever, so it's hard to even come up with reasons.

Blake himself never stepped foot on AHL ice. He jumped straight from Bowling Green to the NHL and was basically a plug and play star. So it's just even more odd that a person who had a Hall of Fame career without the AHL (or IHL at that time) is now the most AHL obsessed GM in the entire league. Maybe it's Emerson and Murray (who both did spend time in the AHL)

With Turcotte the plan should have been if he crushes it and is good enough for the NHL sign him after his freshman year, if he's not send him back and get that all important sophomore year where he hopefully dominates and expect him to be in the NHL at 20. If he's still not NHL ready, ok then utilize the AHL, which is fine for 20 year olds. Some of the Blake defenders say..

"Well, Zegras signed and ended up spending time in the AHL, who don't you rip them"

The big difference being that Anaheim signed Zegras with the belief he was going to be an NHL player, and he was for the majority of the year. When the Kings signed Turcotte there was zero expectation he was going to play in the NHL that year. They pulled him out from a proven development situation for teenagers to put him in the AHL for the whole year (and again we have no idea why and no justification why the proven way was bailed on). I understand Jesse can't really ask these guys difficult questions like that, and this is where a complete lack of independent unbiased media coverage really sucks.

And the Byfield one too, the excuses are "well the OHL was shut down" ok and why is a player who had one of the best PPG in recent memory for a draft eligible player going back to that league in the first place? And when it was shut down and your options became the NHL and AHL why are you sending a player of his caliber to the AHL where there is no proven track record of 18 year old CHL players succeeding there when the NHL was an option and the vast majority of top picks have gone to the NHL and gone on to have successful careers?

Just do what everyone else has done, there is no shame on that. Sports is a copycat thing, trust successful models and processes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tbrown33
Axl Rhoadz said:
I think it's been established that the Kings fail at developing forwards, so it wouldn't matter if they would have picked Stutzle.
Click to expand...

That reinforces my point: The development curve for Stutzle at the time of the draft was already established to be lower/quicker than for Byfield who was universally seen as a "project".
 
  • Like
Reactions: mysterman2
kevsh said:
That reinforces my point: The development curve for Stutzle at the time of the draft was already established to be lower/quicker than for Byfield who was universally seen as a "project".
Click to expand...
and correct me of Im wrong------but was the universal consensus from all scouts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kevsh
So.,...all you 'we should have drafted Zegras!" "the Ducks have drafted better than the Kings" To those, I say the final verdict is NOT SO. Not yet. I say, by 2 years from now. The consenus will be:

Byfield + Kaliyev + Clarke
>
Zegras + McTavish + Drysdale.

This equation used to have Turcotte in it. I've moved on to Arty. Same draft, right? I still have hopes for Turcotte. But this is now the standard to evaluate, for me. Arty becomes more of a monster, by the week. He was possessed at rookie camp. He's on the rise. Not even Todd will be able to stop him, going forward. Byfield > Zegras in 1-2 years for certain. Clarke > to the 10th power, over Drysdale.
Kaliyev - McTavish to be determined.
Let it be known. PJBII. 9-21-22
 
  • Like
Reactions: kinghock
(Byfield video)

Great video, thanks for posting.

The breakdown of his skating is really interesting. I wonder if using a longer stick will help address the posture issue?

Hopefully with coaching and repetition he can eliminate some of the flaws, it seems like that could be a big deal in his development.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tbrown33
Peter James Bond II said:
So.,...all you 'we should have drafted Zegras!" "the Ducks have drafted better than the Kings" To those, I say the final verdict is NOT SO. Not yet. I say, by 2 years from now. The consenus will be:

Byfield + Kaliyev + Clarke
>
Zegras + McTavish + Drysdale.

This equation used to have Turcotte in it. I've moved on to Arty. Same draft, right? I still have hopes for Turcotte. But this is now the standard to evaluate, for me. Arty becomes more of a monster, by the week. He was possessed at rookie camp. He's on the rise. Not even Todd will be able to stop him, going forward. Byfield > Zegras in 1-2 years for certain. Clarke > to the 10th power, over Drysdale.
Kaliyev - McTavish to be determined.
Let it be known. PJBII. 9-21-22
Click to expand...
The Kings scouts probably were more like Turcotte/Byfield/Clarke vs Zegras/Stutzle/Wallstedt
Byram was off the board otherwise that woulda been their guy Id bet.
 
I think we forget what a special player he is due to the underwhelming performance last year after he came back from injury. But before that, and this video is a reminder, the dude has some serious skills. This same type of skill was very evident in the last game of the rookie tourney as well. I also think what contributes to a lot of the question marks, is what appears to be a lack of finish -- he's getting his opportunities, he's just not putting the puck in the back of the net as much as he should. When he figures that out, I think we are going to have one hell of a player.

Too bad Sol is weaseling out of his bet for Byfield to not hit 35 points this year -- would be so sweet to collect that cash.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: ru4reals
Schmooley said:
The Kings scouts probably were more like Turcotte/Byfield/Clarke vs Zegras/Stutzle/Wallstedt
Byram was off the board otherwise that woulda been their guy Id bet.
Click to expand...
I have no evidence to back this up other than my years of Kings fandom, but I'd bet Yanetti wanted Dach or Byram. I think everyone thought Chicago was taking Turcotte the local kid to be their Toews replacement. I just don't see a world where we reached to take Seider or drafted a winger at #5 like Zegras (his position in the NHL being unclear at the draft), Boldy, or Caulfield. I'd bet our draft board went 1. Hughes 2. Byram 3. Dach 4. Turcotte 5. Kakko just because of how this team has drafted since Lombardi came onboard.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Schmooley
respD said:
(Byfield video)

Great video, thanks for posting.

The breakdown of his skating is really interesting. I wonder if using a longer stick will help address the posture issue?

Hopefully with coaching and repetition he can eliminate some of the flaws, it seems like that could be a big deal in his development.
Click to expand...
I think so, and looked like he was using a longer stick at the rookie tourney. Part of those mechanical issues is also having a 6'5" frame and being so young, takes a little longer to develop that fully body sync up at that size, but it will come over time.
 
BringTheReign said:
I have no evidence to back this up other than my years of Kings fandom, but I'd bet Yanetti wanted Dach or Byram. I think everyone thought Chicago was taking Turcotte the local kid to be their Toews replacement. I just don't see a world where we reached to take Seider or drafted a winger at #5 like Zegras (his position in the NHL being unclear at the draft), Boldy, or Caulfield. I'd bet our draft board went 1. Hughes 2. Byram 3. Dach 4. Turcotte 5. Kakko just because of how this team has drafted since Lombardi came onboard.
Click to expand...
Yea I agree with Dach or Byram. Just meant who was still on the board. Its water under the bridge now. I liked all the picks at the time! Still do! Really pulling for a strong healthy year from Turcotte.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BringTheReign
BringTheReign said:
I have no evidence to back this up other than my years of Kings fandom, but I'd bet Yanetti wanted Dach or Byram. I think everyone thought Chicago was taking Turcotte the local kid to be their Toews replacement. I just don't see a world where we reached to take Seider or drafted a winger at #5 like Zegras (his position in the NHL being unclear at the draft), Boldy, or Caulfield. I'd bet our draft board went 1. Hughes 2. Byram 3. Dach 4. Turcotte 5. Kakko just because of how this team has drafted since Lombardi came onboard.
Click to expand...
Funny enough, I think if both Turcotte and Byram were gone by 5OA, they would have gone with either Zegras or Caufield
 
  • Like
Reactions: BringTheReign
Axl Rhoadz said:
I think we forget what a special player he is due to the underwhelming performance last year after he came back from injury. But before that, and this video is a reminder, the dude has some serious skills. This same type of skill was very evident in the last game of the rookie tourney as well. I also think what contributes to a lot of the question marks, is what appears to be a lack of finish -- he's getting his opportunities, he's just not putting the puck in the back of the net as much as he should. When he figures that out, I think we are going to have one hell of a player.

Too bad Sol is weaseling out of his bet for Byfield to not hit 35 points this year -- would be so sweet to collect that cash.
Click to expand...
Changing his stick length (and most likely the lay of the blade) means it’s going to affect his shooting a little whilst he adjusts. It’ll be more than 10 games. My focus in the first half is going to be the wider game rather than pure numbers in part because of this. He’s made the change we felt was needed so we need to let it play out IMO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Raccoon Jesus
Statto said:
Changing his stick length (and most likely the lay of the blade) means it’s going to affect his shooting a little whilst he adjusts. It’ll be more than 10 games. My focus in the first half is going to be the wider game rather than pure numbers in part because of this. He’s made the change we felt was needed so we need to let it play out IMO.
Click to expand...
I think immediate improvement at the NHL level would be keeping the puck on his stick -- so many times last year, he was bobbling the puck here and there -- my description of his play was that his mind couldn't catch up to his body.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Raccoon Jesus
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom