Prospect Info: Quinton Byfield (2nd Overall 2020 Draft) Discussion part II

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't know if I buy that given he was spending time with Gary Roberts.

 

[Herby]

I don't know if I buy the short stick argument. He was a dominant player in the best junior league in the world and was pretty good in the AHL last year using a short stick. I think it's more likely a combination of a player who is very raw (probably way more raw than even was anticipated), a player who was handled very poorly last season and a player who has zero confidence right now.

I think the most troubling aspect of QB's season is the almost total lack of "wow" type moments. Kaliyev has not set the world on fire this season but there have been plenty of moments that tell you "Ok, this kid is going to be a very good goal-scorer". Doughty wasn't an offensive star as a rookie but he had plenty of moments where you could clear as day see it was there for future stardom, with QB those moments just haven't been there. People love to say "well he's a project", which is fine, but even projects show glimpses, being a project doesn't automatically mean you are completely lost out there. That being said, he is still young, but there has to be a somewhat decent step made next season, maybe some of those "wow" moments to go along with even middling type production and you can stay positive, if it's another season like this next year you officially have to start to be concerned if it was the correct selection at 2OA. Next year is very big.

 

[YP44]

I don't know if I buy the short stick argument. He was a dominant player in the best junior league in the world and was pretty good in the AHL last year using a short stick. I think it's more likely a combination of a player who is very raw (probably way more raw than even was anticipated), a player who was handled very poorly last season and a player who has zero confidence right now.

I think the most troubling aspect of QB's season is the almost total lack of "wow" type moments. Kaliyev has not set the world on fire this season but there have been plenty of moments that tell you "Ok, this kid is going to be a very good goal-scorer". Doughty wasn't an offensive star as a rookie but he had plenty of moments where you could clear as day see it was there for future stardom, with QB those moments just haven't been there. People love to say "well he's a project", which is fine, but even projects show glimpses, being a project doesn't automatically mean you are completely lost out there. That being said, he is still young, but there has to be a somewhat decent step made next season, maybe some of those "wow" moments to go along with even middling type production and you can stay positive, if it's another season like this next year you officially have to start to be concerned if it was the correct selection at 2OA. Next year is very big.

Every now and then I think he is going to give us one and I get excited! Was it Pronger that Kopitar danced around his rookie year? Something like that would be very nice, not necessarily needed though.

 

[King'sPawn]

I don't know if I buy the short stick argument. He was a dominant player in the best junior league in the world and was pretty good in the AHL last year using a short stick. I think it's more likely a combination of a player who is very raw (probably way more raw than even was anticipated), a player who was handled very poorly last season and a player who has zero confidence right now.

I think the most troubling aspect of QB's season is the almost total lack of "wow" type moments. Kaliyev has not set the world on fire this season but there have been plenty of moments that tell you "Ok, this kid is going to be a very good goal-scorer". Doughty wasn't an offensive star as a rookie but he had plenty of moments where you could clear as day see it was there for future stardom, with QB those moments just haven't been there. People love to say "well he's a project", which is fine, but even projects show glimpses, being a project doesn't automatically mean you are completely lost out there. That being said, he is still young, but there has to be a somewhat decent step made next season, maybe some of those "wow" moments to go along with even middling type production and you can stay positive, if it's another season like this next year you officially have to start to be concerned if it was the correct selection at 2OA. Next year is very big.

I dunno. I agree that the short stick comment may not be a good argument. But I think we HAVE seen glimpses of things Byfield can do: in-tight, puck control and protection with great acceleration and top-end speed for a guy his size.

He hasn't had the scoring chances, but he does have a great toolset. All this still at the age of 19.

 

[tbrown33]

Every now and then I think he is going to give us one and I get excited! Was it Pronger that Kopitar danced around his rookie year? Something like that would be very nice, not necessarily needed though.

He pulled off the same move on Girard in his first game, just didn't score.

 

[Herby]

Every now and then I think he is going to give us one and I get excited! Was it Pronger that Kopitar danced around his rookie year? Something like that would be very nice, not necessarily needed though.

I've given up hope he will be a Kopitar, and that is not a knock on QB, he can still live up to his draft slot if he's not Kopitar. AK was just a special player right from the start and IMO only gets overlooked league-wide because he didn't have crazy offensive stats like some of the others, but had he been drafted by San Jose, Ottawa, Chicago (just a few of the teams who passed on him) and put into an offensive system with better wingers he would have had a few 100 point seasons and maybe won an MVP.

I know the Kings had Gretzky at the tail end of his prime, so it's hard to say AK was better than late 80's Gretzky but looking at his entire decade and a half body of work, I think it's fair to say that AK is the greatest player in franchise history.

 

[MBH]

I've given up hope he will be a Kopitar, and that is not a knock on QB, he can still live up to his draft slot if he's not Kopitar. AK was just a special player right from the start and IMO only gets overlooked league-wide because he didn't have crazy offensive stats like some of the others, but had he been drafted by San Jose, Ottawa, Chicago (just a few of the teams who passed on him) and put into an offensive system with better wingers he would have had a few 100 point seasons and maybe won an MVP.

I know the Kings had Gretzky at the tail end of his prime, so it's hard to say AK was better than late 80's Gretzky but looking at his entire decade and a half body of work, I think it's fair to say that AK is the greatest player in franchise history.

Gretzky. Dionne.
I'd say AK was the best two-way player, or most complete player, in team history. But Gretzky and Dionne were incredible in their day.

 

[YP44]

I've given up hope he will be a Kopitar, and that is not a knock on QB, he can still live up to his draft slot if he's not Kopitar. AK was just a special player right from the start and IMO only gets overlooked league-wide because he didn't have crazy offensive stats like some of the others, but had he been drafted by San Jose, Ottawa, Chicago (just a few of the teams who passed on him) and put into an offensive system with better wingers he would have had a few 100 point seasons and maybe won an MVP.

I know the Kings had Gretzky at the tail end of his prime, so it's hard to say AK was better than late 80's Gretzky but looking at his entire decade and a half body of work, I think it's fair to say that AK is the greatest player in franchise history.

I think it is very safe to say Kopitar will finish as the greatest King of all time.
If the guy played anywhere on the East he would be so hyped. I bet some hockey writers in the east think it is a debate if he is a hall of famer or not.

 

[Herby]

I dunno. I agree that the short stick comment may not be a good argument. But I think we HAVE seen glimpses of things Byfield can do: in-tight, puck control and protection with great acceleration and top-end speed for a guy his size.

He hasn't had the scoring chances, but he does have a great toolset. All this still at the age of 19.

I do agree he has a great skill-set, as I told RJ in another thread, if he doesn't live up to the hype it won't be because of tools (say like with Turcotte). But tools does not automatically mean star, anyone taken top 3 has high-end skill but a few guys have not lived up to it (for whatever reason). I am not saying he will be Nolan Patrick for instance, but his tools also don't mean he automatically will make it, he needs to put in the work himself and certainly be developed better than he maybe has been so far by the Kings.

I am basically considering last year a throw-away, it's obvious his season in Ontario did next to nothing to prepare him for the NHL (perhaps that is why guys like Hughes and Stutzle were never sent there despite being eligible) and he is now learning on the job at 19 what he should have done at 18, so he gets a pass for this year. But next season he needs to take a step up both in the eye-test and in the production test (kind of like Hughes D+2), he can't have another year like this next year. If he struggles in the NHL or ends up back in the AHL next season then it's time to be concerned.

 

[YP44]

Gretzky. Dionne.
I'd say AK was the best two-way player, or most complete player, in team history. But Gretzky and Dionne were incredible in their day.

With Gretzky I think his best play was done in a different market.
For me it will come down to Dionne and Kopitar. I will listen to people on Taylor or Luc but not agree with them.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Is there a source on that? I don't remember any reporting on him avoiding muscle gains. Would be an interesting read.

I have spent about 15 minutes looking for it. I wil never forget it, as I was disappointed. He said he wanted to keep his weight down, to keep his quckness.
I hope to find the article. Will keep searching for it.
Yes, he trains with Gary Roberts and the recent video of him working out, he has some pretty good biceps...but he's very lean.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't know if I buy the short stick argument. He was a dominant player in the best junior league in the world and was pretty good in the AHL last year using a short stick. I think it's more likely a combination of a player who is very raw (probably way more raw than even was anticipated), a player who was handled very poorly last season and a player who has zero confidence right now.

I think the most troubling aspect of QB's season is the almost total lack of "wow" type moments. Kaliyev has not set the world on fire this season but there have been plenty of moments that tell you "Ok, this kid is going to be a very good goal-scorer". Doughty wasn't an offensive star as a rookie but he had plenty of moments where you could clear as day see it was there for future stardom, with QB those moments just haven't been there. People love to say "well he's a project", which is fine, but even projects show glimpses, being a project doesn't automatically mean you are completely lost out there. That being said, he is still young, but there has to be a somewhat decent step made next season, maybe some of those "wow" moments to go along with even middling type production and you can stay positive, if it's another season like this next year you officially have to start to be concerned if it was the correct selection at 2OA. Next year is very big.

I know this will come as a surprise but boy do I disagree here.

If anything the problem is that the production doesn't happen after these moments do.

He's had plenty of moments in almost every game where it's like 'holy shit this is going to be the one that gets him going' then the puck either doesn't go in or the linemate doesn't finish.

As much as I get accused of looking for good things for confirmation bias, there are quite a few folks here doing the opposite, imo.

 

[HookKing]

Man you guys are severely underestimating DD. He was like top 3 D in the league for what -- about 10 years? Kopitar was in the top 3 for what -- 1 maybe 2 years?

 

[MBH]

With Gretzky I think his best play was done in a different market.
For me it will come down to Dionne and Kopitar. I will listen to people on Taylor or Luc but not agree with them.

I agree Gretzky's best work was in Edmonton. But if he's widely considered the best ever, by far, to play the game, his 2nd best work is nothing to sneeze at.
But he still came to LA and had 5 120-point seasons and took the LA Kings to the finals with 40 points in 24 games.

539 games 246 goals 672 assists 918 points

8th in goals
3rd in assists
5th in points.
1 Hart Trophy (3 top 5 finishes)
3 Art Ross
5 top 3 all star finishes.

Those numbers seem pedestrian only by Gretzky's Edmonton numbers and ridiculous by every other standard.

 

[MBH]

I know this will come as a surprise but boy do I disagree here.

If anything the problem is that the production doesn't happen after these moments do.

He's had plenty of moments in almost every game where it's like 'holy shit this is going to be the one that gets him going' then the puck either doesn't go in or the linemate doesn't finish.

As much as I get accused of looking for good things for confirmation bias, there are quite a few folks here doing the opposite, imo.

I get too invested in the success/failure of players I like.
Byfield is one of those guys. Between Byfield, Vilardi and AA, that's why I watch Kings' hockey.
But man, I just can get on board with Byfield in the NHL at this stage in his career. I don't see how it benefits him or the Kings in the long haul.

I thought Byfield wasn't exactly top shelf in the AHL last year. But while I thought it was asking too much, too son, I understood that COVID made the OHL a disaster for his development.

What I don't understand is why the Kings saw his 32 games 8-12-20 -9 in the AHL and decided Byfield needed to start in the NHL this year.
Or his 11 games 4-2-6 this year and thought the same.

Vilardi last year is better than Byfield this year. It's not even close.
I think JAD would be better as the Kings 3C. I think Kupari is a better 3C right now.

It just feels like LA is playing Byfield because of his high draft position - which seems like a very bad idea.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Yannetti had these words. post draft. He was spot on. He's still just 19. I think it will be another 2 years, until you see him at 230 and being the force he will be. Hopefully, not 3 years. I still cannot find the quote of QB saying he wanted to keep his weight down. I think it was this past offseason.

Thanks to Rink Royalty.

He’s 6-4. People don’t realize—they think he’s a big, 6-4 guy who’s feasting on smaller competition. But he’s nowhere near his potential for growth yet. I didn’t find him to be a particularly strong player for his size. That doesn’t mean that he wasn’t strong. But at 6-4, and at his size, there are players who are a lot stronger.”
“When he’s all said and done, he’s going to be a force,” added Yanetti. “He’s going to have two power forward elements. If you’re talking straight-on speed, he’s as good a skater as anyone in the draft.

Going Deep Into the LA Kings 2020 NHL Draft with Kings Director of Amateur Scouting Mark Yanetti – Part 1

LOS ANGELES — Each year, when the National Hockey League Draft comes around, yours truly gets a little excited about the stories I’ll be writing. Indeed, writing about young players who…

frozenroyalty.net

 

[Herby]

I know this will come as a surprise but boy do I disagree here.

If anything the problem is that the production doesn't happen after these moments do.

He's had plenty of moments in almost every game where it's like 'holy shit this is going to be the one that gets him going' then the puck either doesn't go in or the linemate doesn't finish.

As much as I get accused of looking for good things for confirmation bias, there are quite a few folks here doing the opposite, imo.

Where are these plenty of moments? Perhaps we have a different definition of what a wow type moment is. To me something like Kaliyev's shot display in Dallas, Doughty's goal as a rookie vs. Colorado, Kopitar's to many to count type moments. I have watched every game he has played and struggle to come up with more than a few moments where he really looked like a future star.

Look, you are obviously one of the most optimistic posters here about the Kings youth. You seem to think that every Kings prospect is going to make it big, and unfortunately that is not the case with any team in the history of hockey that went through a rebuild. Pittsburgh had Esposito, Despres and Bennett, Chicago had Barker, Skille and Beach, Tampa had Koekkoek, Connelly and Namestikov, Washington had Pokulok, Gustafsson and Johanson. All of these guys you constantly go to battle over are not going to be wins for the Kings, there are going to be misses, and likely more than 1 bassed on history. I already have my ideas who those misses are going to be, and those names won't surprise anyone. Now I am not saying that is the case for this particular prospect, because its about a year to early to tell and I am hopeful that his skills eventually start to shine through with production soon, but what will your opinion be if we are in this same spot next season? Is it fair to say at that point it starts to be a valid concern? I won't be concerned until next season, when will it be for you?

 

[Herby]

Yannetti had these words. post draft. He was spot on. He's still just 19. I think it will be another 2 years, until you see him at 230 and being the force he will be. Hopefully, not 3 years. I still cannot find the quote of QB saying he wanted to keep his weight down. I think it was this past offseason.

Thanks to Rink Royalty.

He’s 6-4. People don’t realize—they think he’s a big, 6-4 guy who’s feasting on smaller competition. But he’s nowhere near his potential for growth yet. I didn’t find him to be a particularly strong player for his size. That doesn’t mean that he wasn’t strong. But at 6-4, and at his size, there are players who are a lot stronger.”
“When he’s all said and done, he’s going to be a force,” added Yanetti. “He’s going to have two power forward elements. If you’re talking straight-on speed, he’s as good a skater as anyone in the draft.

Going Deep Into the LA Kings 2020 NHL Draft with Kings Director of Amateur Scouting Mark Yanetti – Part 1

LOS ANGELES — Each year, when the National Hockey League Draft comes around, yours truly gets a little excited about the stories I’ll be writing. Indeed, writing about young players who…

frozenroyalty.net

That all might be true. But citing Mark Yannetti when talking about evaluation of forwards isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. The guy has been great at finding defenseman, especially in the later rounds. But the Kings have left a lot of good players on the table early in drafts to (sorry to be frank) draft guys who simply have not turned out to be as good pro players.

Now if it's Blake making the 1st round forward picks, then apologies to Yannetti, but as head-scout you assume he has atleast some say. If we are going to give these guys credit for Kaliyev, Spence, Faber, Anderson its only fair to be critical for Vilardi and Turcotte. (still to early to say one way or the other with QB)

 

[YP44]

I agree Gretzky's best work was in Edmonton. But if he's widely considered the best ever, by far, to play the game, his 2nd best work is nothing to sneeze at.
But he still came to LA and had 5 120-point seasons and took the LA Kings to the finals with 40 points in 24 games.

539 games 246 goals 672 assists 918 points

8th in goals
3rd in assists
5th in points.
1 Hart Trophy (3 top 5 finishes)
3 Art Ross
5 top 3 all star finishes.

Those numbers seem pedestrian only by Gretzky's Edmonton numbers and ridiculous by every other standard.

Oh I agree, but the 539 games is why I wouldn't put him as top King of all time. Obviously not the be all end all, it's not like I am advocating that Trevor Lewis be considered over Gretzky. Also though not like Iginla should be mentioned.
Its a good topic though as far as how many games a player has to be with a team to be on their mount rushmore so to speak.

 

[MBH]

Oh I agree, but the 539 games is why I would put him as top King of all time. Obviously not the be all end all, it's not like I am advocating that Trevor Lewis be considered over Gretzky. Also though not like Iginla should be mentioned.
Its a good topic though as far as how many games a player has to be with a team to be on their mount rushmore so to speak.

I was in Canada at the time, where they wouldn't shut up about how Gretzky was building hockey in Hollywood.
So there's that.
But there's also that run to the Stanley Cup Finals.
I think those two factors, along with his gaudy stats, are worthy of consideration, too.
But, too each their own.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

That all might be true. But citing Mark Yannetti when talking about evaluation of forwards isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. The guy has been great at finding defenseman, especially in the later rounds. But the Kings have left a lot of good players on the table early in drafts to (sorry to be frank) draft guys who simply have not turned out to be as good pro players.

Now if it's Blake making the 1st round forward picks, then apologies to Yannetti, but as head-scout you assume he has atleast some say. If we are going to give these guys credit for Kaliyev, Spence, Faber, Anderson its only fair to be critical for Vilardi and Turcotte. (still to early to say one way or the other with QB)

Good post and thanks for the response to shall not be named, yesterday.
Ben Meehan may be a good, late round pick. Seems to have had a good year, with UMass-Lowell...Andre Lee's team. 50 PIM stand out and hope some were
physical related. Would not think he's 6'0" 179 anymore. Thank goodness, he's a LHD. I think he played with a broken hand his draft year, and thus was not at his best, obviously. May be a sleeper.

Ben Meehan - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Ben Meehan, 2001-04-20 Boston, MA, USA USA. Most recently in the NCAA with UMass-Lowell. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

 

[Herby]

Good post and thanks for the response to shall not be named, yesterday.
Ben Meehan may be a good, late round pick. Seems to have had a good year, with UMass-Lowell...Andre Lee's team. 50 PIM stand out and hope some were
physical related. Would not think he's 6'0" 179 anymore. Thank goodness, he's a LHD. I think he played with a broken hand his draft year, and thus was not at his best, obviously. May be a sleeper.

Ben Meehan - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Ben Meehan, 2001-04-20 Boston, MA, USA USA. Most recently in the NCAA with UMass-Lowell. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

No problem,

No one should be subjected to such a stupid response for just about anything posted here, and certainly not for posting lines. Some people are just miserable people, the type of people who cuss out waiters and blackjack dealers.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Where are these plenty of moments? Perhaps we have a different definition of what a wow type moment is. To me something like Kaliyev's shot display in Dallas, Doughty's goal as a rookie vs. Colorado, Kopitar's to many to count type moments. I have watched every game he has played and struggle to come up with more than a few moments where he really looked like a future star.

Look, you are obviously one of the most optimistic posters here about the Kings youth. You seem to think that every Kings prospect is going to make it big, and unfortunately that is not the case with any team in the history of hockey that went through a rebuild. Pittsburgh had Esposito, Despres and Bennett, Chicago had Barker, Skille and Beach, Tampa had Koekkoek, Connelly and Namestikov, Washington had Pokulok, Gustafsson and Johanson. All of these guys you constantly go to battle over are not going to be wins for the Kings, there are going to be misses, and likely more than 1 bassed on history. I already have my ideas who those misses are going to be, and those names won't surprise anyone. Now I am not saying that is the case for this particular prospect, because its about a year to early to tell and I am hopeful that his skills eventually start to shine through with production soon, but what will your opinion be if we are in this same spot next season? Is it fair to say at that point it starts to be a valid concern? I won't be concerned until next season, when will it be for you?

Are we really doing this after you getting pissy about others doing it to you? Hypocrite.

I don't need the lecture about prospects that don't make it just because you and I disagree on Turcotte and Byfield. I've been famously down--and wrong--on others, like Durzi for example. Kupari is another I've not been high on. All I'm saying is Byfield has had some near-sportscenter moments that haven't resulted in production yet. I'm thinking the taking Girard for a walk, last season ducks game cutting back on three dudes, gulls game walking off the wall on three dudes, etc sort of stuff. He does that more than Kopitar ever did. If anything it's the opposite of Kopitar, the flashes are there, the results aren't...yet.

He's 19, a little early to be throwing dirt on his casket, even at 20 for you, when big guys take longer anyway, we knew he would be a project, AND he just lost half a season to an ankle and covid. A step forward next sesason is important--a BIG step at 21 is necessary. I also expect, like with some other big guys like Draisaitl, another step-ish at 23+.

 

[Herby]

Are we really doing this after you getting pissy about others doing it to you? Hypocrite.

I don't need the lecture about prospects that don't make it just because you and I disagree on Turcotte and Byfield. I've been famously down--and wrong--on others, like Durzi for example. Kupari is another I've not been high on. All I'm saying is Byfield has had some near-sportscenter moments that haven't resulted in production yet. I'm thinking the taking Girard for a walk, last season ducks game cutting back on three dudes, gulls game walking off the wall on three dudes, etc sort of stuff. He does that more than Kopitar ever did. If anything it's the opposite of Kopitar, the flashes are there, the results aren't...yet.

He's 19, a little early to be throwing dirt on his casket, even at 20 for you, when big guys take longer anyway, we knew he would be a project, AND he just lost half a season to an ankle and covid. A step forward next sesason is important--a BIG step at 21 is necessary. I also expect, like with some other big guys like Draisaitl, another step-ish at 23+.

So a couple of wow moments in 30 games, I don't disagree with that, that is quite a bit different than "plenty of wow moments in almost every game". There is no way you can say he's had wow moments every game and has 5 points in 27 games, unless he is the unluckiest guy in the league.

I don't totally disagree with you on Byfield long-term. I am not throwing dirt on his casket. I simply said he has to take a step next season in his D+3 or there is concern, do you disagree? We had this same debate on Turcotte and we agreed on the same thing then, lets see where he is two years from now, that is currently, is it fair to now say there is concern about the things we debated on two years ago? For Byfield is it fair to check back in a year and see where he is? I was pretty confident Turcotte would not live up to it, I am not saying the same thing here with QB. I am not certain he will be a star but don't think he will be a bust either, but certainly both things are within the range of coutcomes.

Draisaitl had 52 points in 71 games at age 20 in his D+2, is it fair to say for Byfield 40 points in a full season next year in his age 20 D+3 is a fair step forward? I would be happy with that, so I assume you would. Would anything next year cause you to have concern?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

So a couple of wow moments in 30 games, I don't disagree with that, that is quite a bit different than "plenty of wow moments in almost every game". There is no way you can say he's had wow moments every game and has 5 points in 27 games, unless he is the unluckiest guy in the league.

I don't totally disagree with you on Byfield long-term. I am not throwing dirt on his casket. I simply said he has to take a step next season in his D+3 or there is concern, do you disagree? We had this same debate on Turcotte and we agreed on the same thing then, lets see where he is two years from now, that is currently, is it fair to now say there is concern about the things we debated on two years ago? For Byfield is it fair to check back in a year and see where he is? I was pretty confident Turcotte would not live up to it, I am not saying the same thing here with QB. I am not certain he will be a star but don't think he will be a bust either, but certainly both things are within the range of coutcomes.

Draisaitl had 52 points in 71 games at age 20 in his D+2, is it fair to say for Byfield 40 points in a full season next year in his age 20 D+3 is a fair step forward? I would be happy with that, so I assume you would. Would anything next year cause you to have concern?

Did you seriously want me to create a list auditing every game? Give me a break. You're being obnoxious here. And let's be real, if I did that, you'd dismiss it anyway. He's shown flashes of awesomeness in just about every game. Not all of them, not a ton, but a lot more than 'a couple.' That's like you calling him awful and worse than a 4th liner in the mainboard thread, just total hyperbole.

No, we didn't have this same debate on Turcotte, it was very different and it was just about his eventual raw production. My worries on Turcotte exist but they're far less about tools and far more about injuries at this point.

I actually think Byfield will pick it up down the stretch here and I'd say for the last 20 games I expect another 5-10 points at least. But yeah, for next season, anything less than 35-40 points and I'll start wondering.