Prospect Info: Quinton Byfield (2nd Overall 2020 Draft) Discussion part II

[AbsentMojo]

I think the key part of that quote was "If we have to, we'll look outside of those 3"...

Ah ya.. im glad he said that - didnt register when I first heard it.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Woah. Do I really do the "quote - unquote" thing that much?? Genuinely appreciate that kind of feedback!

Yah, we get blitzed! ha

 

[kilowatt]

I mean having three lines really f***ing click and one line just suck absolute ass is certainly working on the score sheet. We’re 13-5-2 in our last 20 games. Here are some teams over that same stretch:

LA: 13-5-2
Vegas: 9-7-4
Colorado: 16-2-2
Tampa: 13-5-2
Florida: 15-4-1
Carolina: 13-4-3
Edmonton: 10-8-2
Anaheim: 8-10-2
Calgary: 14-6-0

We’re up there with some elite teams.

 

[Herby]

Byfield- Still very raw, certainly leaps and bounds behind Kopitar at the same age. Some difficulties in development not his fault, including injury and C-19 limits. Probably a 50-60 pt player at some point, but a lot of criticisms scouts had about his play prior to the draft have been evident in his limited pro career so far. Kings are shooting for the moon, hoping that raw talent and size will come to pass and become that 1C they hope he will be. Time will tell.

50-60 points would be pretty disappointing for a player taken that high.

I agree with everything else though, this was more of a ceiling pick, especially compared to what they did the year before. Some of the concerns going into the draft are certainly showing through early on. He is still very raw and will more time than I think some probably expected on draft night. I think D+3 is when you can start to make more concrete observations of what you might or might not have so I'm hoping by next season he is playing better all-around and producing more offensively. But he's not a slam dunk Kopitar or Doughty. Still a bit concerning there is no slam dunk superstar as of now for the next rebuild after having three the last rebuild.

I mean having three lines really f***ing click and one line just suck absolute ass is certainly working on the score sheet. We’re 13-5-2 in our last 20 games. Here are some teams over that same stretch:

LA: 13-5-2
Vegas: 9-7-4
Colorado: 16-2-2
Tampa: 13-5-2
Florida: 15-4-1
Carolina: 13-4-3
Edmonton: 10-8-2
Anaheim: 8-10-2
Calgary: 14-6-0

We’re up there with some elite teams.

That's why it's so difficult to be critical of TMac, he has been one of the best coaches in the league this season. This roster is not super talented but he has made it work pretty darn well.

 

[LAKings88]

I've been trying to bring this up for a while but don't know how to do it the right way.

I do think his line has no chemistry which makes it hard to get a read on him.

I see him move and I see the hustle. Some incredible plays here and there. The guy is so young. I know the potential is there.

The thing I don't know about or trust my eyes maybe is his one on one battles.

Seems to lose the puck more than get by defenders. Been keying on him closely the past few games. Does he play with a smaller stick? Feel like he is easily stripped of the puck the majority of times.

Am I completely off base?

 

[SufferingSelfCreated]

The 3rd line is ill-composed - he cant expect it to congeal at any point now or in the future. Its like he was putting together a jigsaw puzzle and realized at the end he was missing some pieces and just shoves some non-fitting pieces together since thats all that he had left. He is working on either self imposed constraints or some coming from above namely: play Byfield, play Brown. By definition this will never work.

I just read a article in The Athletic where they interview Blake and he says this

“He’s been so important to this organization,” Blake said of Brown. “I’d love to see him take this team back to the playoffs. That’s important. Whatever happens after in the summer, we’ll address our UFAs then"

That settles that lol.

 

[kingsfan]

Byfield will be a lot more than a 50-60 point guy when he gets up to NHL speed mentally imo.

 

[Herby]

The supposed 4th line is so good that it is actually the 3rd line and this horrific "3rd line" we are complaining about is actually the 4th line.

Since they are winning, they most likely aren't going to tinker with the 4th line. It's hard to tinker with it anyways since they are not going to scratch Brown and this place would riot if Byfield was scratched.

Make no mistake though: Byfield isn't playing like some world beater that is just being dragged down by his line mates. Kid is making plenty of mistakes on his own but that is to be expected. Falls in line with Herby's notion that he should have played in the NHL all of last season since it was a throwaway year for the Kings anyways. Now he is having the learning season in the midst of a playoff run.

To that point, I love the contract sliding to this year and since he is so young, I'm not terribly worried about his development. I just really wanted him to have someone like Iafallo on his wing as the lack of any sustained offensive zone time is something to worry about.

I just don't get why they go away from models that for the most part have worked so well for other teams. Both in this case and the Turcotte one. We know those models work for similar players, why take the risk and change it up with your two most important picks in over a decade? You mention the contract thing, I guess, but again, why has that not concerned other teams before? Plus, it's also possible that Byfield explodes in his D+4 instead of D+3 and you get no discount at all on his 2nd contract that you would have gotten one if his second contract was signed after his age 20 year.

I think the opinions on Byfield are both valid but over the top at the same time. He isn't playing with good linemates, no debate from anyone here (well maybe a couple) but he himself isn't playing good either. Some of the comments in the GDT's make it seem like this is Evgeni Malkin centering Raitis Ivanans and John Zeiler. Byfield himself has contributed to the lines struggles too, he's not the most at fault, but he's certainly not without fault. I think people just want so bad for these young guys to be hits and, IMO aren't fairly evaluating them. It's largely been a struggle this year for the four 1st round centers.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I just don't get why they go away from models that for the most part have worked so well for other teams. Both in this case and the Turcotte one. We know those models work for similar players, why take the risk and change it up with your two most important picks in over a decade? You mention the contract thing, I guess, but again, why has that not concerned other teams before? Plus, it's also possible that Byfield explodes in his D+4 instead of D+3 and you get no discount at all on his 2nd contract that you would have gotten one if his second contract was signed after his age 20 year.

I think the opinions on Byfield are both valid but over the top at the same time. He isn't playing with good linemates, no debate from anyone here (well maybe a couple) but he himself isn't playing good either. Some of the comments in the GDT's make it seem like this is Evgeni Malkin centering Raitis Ivanans and John Zeiler. Byfield himself has contributed to the lines struggles too, he's not the most at fault, but he's certainly not without fault. I think people just want so bad for these young guys to be hits and, IMO aren't fairly evaluating them. It's largely been a struggle this year for the four 1st round centers.

Like I said--my only beef with that discussion at-large is that it places equal responsibility on Byfield, Brown, and AA...when really you expect those mistakes from a 19 year old, you absolutely do not expect them from a 27- and 37-year-old.

Give the guy some stable linemates so he's making mistakes in isolation that are correctable and easy to learn from...right now, a turnover equals a goal against since Brown is immobile and AA is probably already by the opposing net.

You will see far fewer errors with some stability. That will equal growth. Right now he's getting his teeth kicked in from all angles and losing confidence.

 

[AbsentMojo]

I just don't get why they go away from models that for the most part have worked so well for other teams. Both in this case and the Turcotte one. We know those models work for similar players, why take the risk and change it up with your two most important picks in over a decade? You mention the contract thing, I guess, but again, why has that not concerned other teams before? Plus, it's also possible that Byfield explodes in his D+4 instead of D+3 and you get no discount at all on his 2nd contract that you would have gotten one if his second contract was signed after his age 20 year.

I think the opinions on Byfield are both valid but over the top at the same time. He isn't playing with good linemates, no debate from anyone here (well maybe a couple) but he himself isn't playing good either. Some of the comments in the GDT's make it seem like this is Evgeni Malkin centering Raitis Ivanans and John Zeiler. Byfield himself has contributed to the lines struggles too, he's not the most at fault, but he's certainly not without fault. I think people just want so bad for these young guys to be hits and, IMO aren't fairly evaluating them. It's largely been a struggle this year for the four 1st round centers.

Byfield struggles are expected he's so young. I remember DD first couple of years in the O-zone he would have a shot but pass it instead. When he did shoot, his shot was Jack Johnson wild. Then I remember he moved to a toe curve and got a more accurate shot. But he had like 2 years to sort it out. Same expectations should be in place for QB and given plenty of slack while he sorts his game out at this level...I think he belongs on a top 6 wing or some such if you keep him up here (as others have suggested) - and let TM make a real energy third line.

 

[Schmooley]

I just don't get why they go away from models that for the most part have worked so well for other teams. Both in this case and the Turcotte one. We know those models work for similar players, why take the risk and change it up with your two most important picks in over a decade? You mention the contract thing, I guess, but again, why has that not concerned other teams before? Plus, it's also possible that Byfield explodes in his D+4 instead of D+3 and you get no discount at all on his 2nd contract that you would have gotten one if his second contract was signed after his age 20 year.

I think the opinions on Byfield are both valid but over the top at the same time. He isn't playing with good linemates, no debate from anyone here (well maybe a couple) but he himself isn't playing good either. Some of the comments in the GDT's make it seem like this is Evgeni Malkin centering Raitis Ivanans and John Zeiler. Byfield himself has contributed to the lines struggles too, he's not the most at fault, but he's certainly not without fault. I think people just want so bad for these young guys to be hits and, IMO aren't fairly evaluating them. It's largely been a struggle this year for the four 1st round centers.

If you watch other teams their rookies make similar mistakes. I watched Zegras and Jarvis make horrible decisions at the opposing blueline that lead right back the other way.
I 100% believe if Byfield was centering Kempe and Kaliyev wed be loving him.
Im not saying break up the other lines to do it but I am just saying Byfield is ready enough that he can be contributing on the score sheet with some guys that can play. If they arent gonna scratch Brown and they are keeping AA in the lineup I wish theyd send QB down to the ahl and get like nate thompson or something and do their thing for the playoffs.
Kaliyev and Bjornfot would be the only ones getting the much needed playoff experience for the next wave of players and both are bottom line/bottom pair limited minutes I imagine.

 

[Herby]

Byfield struggles are expected he's so young. I remember DD first couple of years in the O-zone he would have a shot but pass it instead. When he did shoot, his shot was Jack Johnson wild. Then I remember he moved to a toe curve and got a more accurate shot. But he had like 2 years to sort it out. Same expectations should be in place for QB and given plenty of slack while he sorts his game out at this level...I think he belongs on a top 6 wing or some such if you keep him up here (as others have suggested) - and let TM make a real energy third line.

We can agree to disagree, I remember Doughty being a plug and play stud from the start.

In his D+2 he made the Canadian Olympic Team at barely 20.

 

[AbsentMojo]

We can agree to disagree, I remember Doughty being a plug and play stud from the start.

In his D+2 he made the Canadian Olympic Team at barely 20.

Here's a story re his stick change (beginning of 2nd season) Doughty's new curve - LA Kings Insider

 

[JeanBlanc]

a lot of criticisms scouts had about his play prior to the draft have been evident in his limited pro career so far.

What criticisms are those?

 

[Herby]

What criticisms are those?

Not regulate,

But from what I can remember it was...

1. Ability to play a structured offensive zone game vs a more run and gun style he played in junior.
2. Motor
3. Defensive awareness (this one is true for most draft picks though)

It's certainly not about skill level with QB.

 

[JeanBlanc]

I mean having three lines really f***ing click and one line just suck absolute ass is certainly working on the score sheet.

It's not even what's consistently happening, though, is it? Against the Vegas Golden Knights on 2/18, the Byfield line looked pretty good.

 

[JeanBlanc]

2. Motor

Couldn't find any mention of "motor" as an issue. And that's something you're seeing as a problem with his game currently?

 

[regulate]

Not regulate,

But from what I can remember it was...

1. Ability to play a structured offensive zone game vs a more run and gun style he played in junior.
2. Motor
3. Defensive awareness (this one is true for most draft picks though)

It's certainly not about skill level with QB.

Yes, #1 was the biggest criticism by far. His points came run and gun style in juniors with outnumbered attacks, he really wasn't a producer at even strength play. This caused some of his critics to rate him lower than the more polished Stutzle. His puck protection needs a lot of work. He can be a turnover machine, as we have seen. It's kind of an all or nothing style with the puck, which I'm sure the Kings are working on with him. They have trying to get him to keep both hands on his stick, his bent over skating style while reaching forward tends to cause him to loose his stick frequently. This also causing a lot of stick penalties when he has a habit of reaching which leads to hooking and stick fouls. This was a problem in ONT. He has good vision and he can snap some beautiful passes, but I don't see too many soft saucers (like Kopitar for instance) so far in his pro career that lead to goals from his teammates. We all know his acceleration is terrific and he has great size, working on the strength part which will improve. I'm not trying to bag on Byfield as much as it may seem, but after watching him play all last year and his limited time this year, it's pretty clear that he is nowhere near the talent (as of now) that Kopitar was at the same age. Whether he gets anywhere near that level is yet to be seen, but my expectations are tempered. Kings are banking on potential, but it's more of a project than I would like for a #2 OA. I hope I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I've been trying to bring this up for a while but don't know how to do it the right way.

I do think his line has no chemistry which makes it hard to get a read on him.

I see him move and I see the hustle. Some incredible plays here and there. The guy is so young. I know the potential is there.

The thing I don't know about or trust my eyes maybe is his one on one battles.

Seems to lose the puck more than get by defenders. Been keying on him closely the past few games. Does he play with a smaller stick? Feel like he is easily stripped of the puck the majority of times.

Am I completely off base?

Nope, not in my opinion. He looks like a player who has the potential to be very dynamic once he figures it all out. He’s friggin 19, FFS. I can’t wait to give this kid a few years and evaluate then.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

near the talent (as of now) that Kopitar was at the same age. Whether he gets anywhere near that level is yet to be seen, but my expectations are tempered. Kings are banking on potential, but it's more of a project than I would like for a #2 OA. I hope I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

This isn't at you directly but I don't know why people keep comparing QB to Kopitar. It's unfair to QB, no matter his draft pedigree.

Only a handful of draft picks have walked right into the NHL and been monsters at this age, you might as well be comparing him to Matthews or Malkin or McDavid when you do that. Byfield not coming roaring out of the gates like Kopitar doesn't somehow make him a lesser prospect--again, look at Leon Draisaitl or even Wheeler or Joe Thornton for an example of "huge kid" development where a guy doesn't set the league on fire for a few years.

"oh well he's not already scoring 70 points and dominating" is a really, really bad metric. news flash--MOST top 5 picks are 'projects' in that sense, the Matthews' and Eichels are exceptions to the rule that people somehow keep spoiling their own expectations with.

 

[Fishhead]

Agreed, Kopitar is a poor comparison. He's a first ballot HOF'er, kind of a high bar.

I think QB will start to figure it out somewhere in between Thornton and Wheeler, perhaps like Jason Allison. It took him a few years to grow into his body, then turned into a ppg guy overnight.

 

[All The Kings Men]

In the immortal words of Ted Lasso

All people are different people.

 

[JeanBlanc]

Not regulate,

But from what I can remember it was...

1. Ability to play a structured offensive zone game vs a more run and gun style he played in junior.
2. Motor
3. Defensive awareness (this one is true for most draft picks though)

It's certainly not about skill level with QB.

Yes, #1 was the biggest criticism by far.

Oh that's interesting. I can't find references to motor or playing in a structured offense critiques.

For example:

2020 Draft Profile: C Quinton Byfield
Much like current NHL star Auston Matthews, Byfield can dictate the flow of a possession from the boards or behind the net, and linemates at every level seem to understand that it’s his job to facilitate playmaking off the cycle.

There were critiques:

Wheeler: Midseason ranking for the 2020 NHL Draft's top 62 prospects
If I have one outstanding concern with Byfield’s game it’s his defensive play. There are little things like his faceoff ability (he’s 50 percent on draws this season, which normally translates to the mid-to-high 40s at the NHL level) and more pronounced things like his first couple of steps and the way they can contribute to him standing around instead of closing off on opposing players, as well as his tendency to misread plays.

https://thehockeywriters.com/quinton-byfield-2020-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/
Under Construction (Improvements to Make)
Physicality
Faceoffs

Pronman's scouting report: What the Kings are getting in Quinton Byfield
Byfield’s hockey sense is the biggest area of debate about his skill set in the scouting community. Some scouts think it’s very good, with the odd one saying it’s his best trait, and a lot of scouts think it’s his biggest weakness.

 

[King'sPawn]

Oh that's interesting. I can't find references to motor or playing in a structured offense critiques.

For example:


There were critiques:

It's not so much that anyone said directly that he can't play in a structured setting - just that he plays better on the rush/in transition.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Oh, are we back on the old "QB can't score in the zone" stuff?

Did we miss that entire AHL highlight reel when 75% of the goals were rolling off a guy off the boards or in front or are we just back to making shit up that makes us feel better