Player Discussion Quinn Hughes, Pt. VII

[Quinning]

I would love to see the data (if any) behind anyone arguing for Makar over Hughes for Norris at this point.

If I was a betting man, I wager a good portion of the people who argue that way thought Stamkos was going to be a PPG player without Kucherov this season and lead the Preds to a top 3 spot in their division are also on the Makar>Hughes train.

Not a knock to the guy either as they're clearly the top 2 in the league, but Quinn looks like when you're in be a player mode in an EA video game and decide the AI is borderline useless so you'll do it yourself, setting up open nets that no idiot could miss.

Delusional Avs fans who worship the ice Makar skates on.

 

[Ernie]

Hughes and Makar are both great players.

Basically whoever is leading in points at the end of the season is likely to win.

 

[Zanon]

Hughes and Makar are both great players.

Basically whoever is leading in points at the end of the season is likely to win.

The year Makar won he had less points than Josi.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Hughes and Makar are both great players.

Basically whoever is leading in points at the end of the season is likely to win.

That may be true, but in context Makar plays with 2 forwards that are top 5 in scoring. Quinn's teammates are nowhere near that quality. In terms of offense, even if Quinn is slightly behind in points, he should still takes the advantage just by the fact he plays with lower scoring teammates.

I'm not sure the voters will see it that way, but that is how I see it anyways. That isn't even considering that Quinn is the better defensive player this season as well. The only edge for Makar right now is that he kills penalties and throws a few hits. Other than that I think Quinn is the better player right now.

**I'm not trying to put down Makar, who is an awesome player and is definitely top 3 in his position, but Quinn just has a better season so far.

 

[Rowlet]

The year Makar won he had less points than Josi.

He also had less first place votes

 

[SillyRabbit]

That may be true, but in context Makar plays with 2 forwards that are top 5 in scoring. Quinn's teammates are nowhere near that quality. In terms of offense, even if Quinn is slightly behind in points, he should still takes the advantage just by the fact he plays with lower scoring teammates.

I'm not sure the voters will see it that way, but that is how I see it anyways. That isn't even considering that Quinn is the better defensive player this season as well. The only edge for Makar right now is that he kills penalties and throws a few hits. Other than that I think Quinn is the better player right now.

**I'm not trying to put down Makar, who is an awesome player and is definitely top 3 in his position, but Quinn just has a better season so far.

Hughes leads the Canucks in scoring by 11 points.

Makar is 12 points behind his teams leading scorer.

Hughes being 1 point behind Makar (with 2 games in hand, so when they're even he could easily be ahead) despite the fact that Makar's teammates are #1 and #3 in scoring while Hughes' highest teammate is #58 in NHL scoring is absolutely remarkable.

If the voters can't comprehend that and all they look at is hurr durr stats, then they might as well give the Hart to MacKinnon, the Norris to Makar and the Rocket to Rantanen, all while being unable to explain why the Avalanche are still outside of a playoff spot.

Hughes has also been clearly better than Makar defensively but nobody wants to talk about that.

 

[Quinntessential]

Makar can hit better and he’s better in scrums.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

If you have one of the best players in the world you play your best player in the world and do so a lot. The list you have is #1 D-men. It's not anything unusual.

This is why the coaching staff has Hughes take days off. That is how you manage the workload.

Disagree.

If you are a serious contender you cant drive the wheels off your best players during the regular season.

 

[Regal]

Disagree.

If you are a serious contender you cant drive the wheels off your best players during the regular season.

Florida is the first cup winner since Carolina to not have their top defenseman play big minutes in the regular season.

These are the cup winners between those seasons in descending order and their top minute defenseman in the regular season:

Vegas: Pietrangelo 23:59
Colorado: Makar 25:40 (Plus Toews 25:22)
Tampa: Hedman 25:03
Tampa: Hedman 24:04
St.Louis: Pietrangelo: 24:05
Washington: Carlson 24:47
Pittsburgh: Letang 25:31 (missed the playoffs)
Pittsburgh: Letang 26:57
Chicago: Keith 25:34
LA: Doughty 25:43
Chicago: Keith 24:07
LA: Doughty 24:54
Boston: Chara 25:26
Chicago: Keith 26:34
Pittsburgh: Gonchar 25:11 (only played 25 games)
Detroit: Lidstrom 26:11
Anaheim: Niedermayer 26:52 (Plus Pronger 26:51)

Hughes is averaging 25:02 a game and barely plays on the PK. He’s fine

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Florida is the first cup winner since Carolina to not have their top defenseman play big minutes in the regular season.

These are the cup winners between those seasons in descending order and their top minute defenseman in the regular season:

Vegas: Pietrangelo 23:59
Colorado: Makar 25:40 (Plus Toews 25:22)
Tampa: Hedman 25:03
Tampa: Hedman 24:04
St.Louis: Pietrangelo: 24:05
Washington: Carlson 24:47
Pittsburgh: Letang 25:31 (missed the playoffs)
Pittsburgh: Letang 26:57
Chicago: Keith 25:34
LA: Doughty 25:43
Chicago: Keith 24:07
LA: Doughty 24:54
Boston: Chara 25:26
Chicago: Keith 26:34
Pittsburgh: Gonchar 25:11 (only played 25 games)
Detroit: Lidstrom 26:11
Anaheim: Niedermayer 26:52 (Plus Pronger 26:51)

Hughes is averaging 25:02 a game and barely plays on the PK. He’s fine

Did not look fine in the playoffa last year.

How much is Quinn averaging after Hronek went down?

This theory will be put to the test in the playoffs.

 

[F A N]

Hughes and Makar are close. I think if you go by analytics (at least from what I have seen) Hughes has been better.

Let's face it, if we don't know Quinn, Makar being Canadian, bigger, RHD, seemingly better counting stats would be preferred. But Hughes is a Canuck, our Captain, and we've seen game in and game out what he is capable of, so I can't see how most of us wouldn't prefer Quinn.

 

[Regal]

Did not look fine in the playoffa last year.

How much is Quinn averaging after Hronek went down?

This theory will be put to the test in the playoffs.

He didn’t look fine because he was constantly being hit by Nashville and they wore him down imo. He avoids hits well in the regular season but it was the game plan of both Nashville and the Oilers to heavily beat him down on the forecheck. He averaged 1.43 hits taken per game in the regular season last year and 2.54 in the playoffs. And that’s only counting the hits that cause him to lose possession. They were trying to get the body on him as much as they could, and I don’t think that’s something that’s going to get better by playing fewer minutes in the regular season. The main issue imo is the team desperately needs other puck movers so he can’t be keyed in on the same way.

Since Hronek’s been injured he’s averaged 26:29, which probably isn’t ideal, but 3 of the games have gone to OT, which accounts for 1:09 per game of those totals (11:34 over the 10 games). They had 3 OT games with Hronek, but Hughes played considerably fewer minutes in those (6:20) and it was spaced over 21 games in comparison for an average of 18 seconds a game. So in terms of non-OT time he went from 24:06 to 25:20 per game without Hronek. Obviously OT time counts as well and maybe he shouldn’t have been playing as much as he did in those games, but they’re also a bit random in when they happen.

That said, I’m certainly in favour of curtailing star player minutes when possible in blowouts and such. But a mid-20s superstar defenseman who is one of the most effortless skaters in the league should be expected to play 25 min or so.