Player Discussion Quinn Hughes, Pt. VII

[bossram]

Can't think of another player more important to his team than Quinn Hughes. He's the Canucks MVP, best player, throws the Canucks on his back game after game.

Somehow even more dominant than last year, should be leading both the Norris and Hart races at this time and it shouldn't be close. Maybe Kaprisov for Hart.

Because there isn't, and it's not even close. He's an elite, elite player and the sole engine of the Canucks.

He should be in the Hart conversation. He should have been last year!

Makar had a ridiculous start offensively but Hughes is closing the gap, while being the better overall better player.

Norris repeat is a real possibility

4 points back with 2 games in hand.

Makar’s two highest scoring teammates have 28 more points than Hughes’ highest scoring teammates.

Hughes has officially caught and surpassed Makar in the Norris race.

But you aren’t hearing a peep about it in the media.

Hughes is going to repeat as Norris winner, he's also going to be a Hart finalist

You can find Hughes still at 5-1 to win the Norris in some markets. Screaming buy.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

It's Bure/Hughes at 1A/1B at this point. Both are at the very top of the league for their respective positions, control the outcome of games single-handedly, and get you out of your seat on just about every shift. I'd argue 2007 Luongo was right there as well.

The next tier down would be Sedins, Naslund, Pettersson, Miller, Boeser etc.

I think Hughes is #1 all by himself now. Bure was great and a fun player to watch, but Hughes dominate both offensively AND defensively, whereas Bure is mostly dominant on one side of the rink. As good as Bure was for Vancouver, I never really thought of him as a legit Hart trophy winner at any point in time, but Hughes imo is definitely one of a small handful of players that can win it this year.

 

[Quinning]

I think Hughes is #1 all by himself now. Bure was great and a fun player to watch, but Hughes dominate both offensively AND defensively, whereas Bure is mostly dominant on one side of the rink. As good as Bure was for Vancouver, I never really thought of him as a legit Hart trophy winner at any point in time, but Hughes imo is definitely one of a small handful of players that can win it this year.

His defensive game has undergone a remarkable transformation. I think back to his sophomore year where he was constantly getting muscled off the puck. He's not even that much bigger now, but he's so much more positionally sound and elusive that it doesn't make a difference. Forwards can't hit what they can't catch, and they can't outmuscle a defender when they no longer have the puck.

 

[geebster]

I think Hughes is #1 all by himself now. Bure was great and a fun player to watch, but Hughes dominate both offensively AND defensively, whereas Bure is mostly dominant on one side of the rink. As good as Bure was for Vancouver, I never really thought of him as a legit Hart trophy winner at any point in time, but Hughes imo is definitely one of a small handful of players that can win it this year.

I still have Bure and Luongo ahead since they were at that level for longer and were in the league while some true monsters were there. Luongo came in third for the Hart during his time here, and probably deserved a Vezina. Bure led the league in goals multiple years.

I'd say Hughes needs one more full season before he overtakes Bure, then for Luongo its hard to say. The impact a goalie that good has is huge and it's hard to compare to a skater so I'd put them in joint first place unless Hughes keeps this up another 2 years or something.

Peak Luongo was one of the greatest goalies ever, peak Bure is one of the greatest scorers ever. If Hughes keeps this up he's one of the greatest players ever, let alone defense, so hoping he does. But he needs more time at this peak in my books.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

I still have Bure and Luongo ahead since they were at that level for longer and were in the league while some true monsters were there. Luongo came in third for the Hart during his time here, and probably deserved a Vezina. Bure led the league in goals multiple years.

I'd say Hughes needs one more full season before he overtakes Bure, then for Luongo its hard to say. The impact a goalie that good has is huge and it's hard to compare to a skater so I'd put them in joint first place unless Hughes keeps this up another 2 years or something.

Peak Luongo was one of the greatest goalies ever, peak Bure is one of the greatest scorers ever. If Hughes keeps this up he's one of the greatest players ever, let alone defense, so hoping he does. But he needs more time at this peak in my books.

I actually thought Hughes had a pretty good 2022-23 as well, all the more so considering he was carrying Luke Schenn as a partner. Not at a Norris level but he was a star by then already. I think he has had 2+ seasons of truly elite play, and trending even better and a legit Hart candidate this season.
Bure's first 3 seasons here are truly elite too, especially if you consider his linemates are mostly solid but unspectacular players. However, after the 94 final, his career was kind of derailed by injuries, and had only 1 statistically good season in 97-98, but he was mostly cherry-picking there and not much of a net positive player.
I didn't consider Bure's time after that as the discussion is limited to strictly to the Canucks franchise. I think at this time I am comfortable claiming Hughes as the clear cut #1 based on the way Hughes is trending. I wouldn't argue if others want to wait until this season is over to move Hughes up above Bure though.

Luongo is harder to rank as he is a goalie, and I always have trouble ranking skaters with goalies. Luongo has a very high peak and have been good for longer, so if you put him #1 for now, I also wouldn't argue it. If Hughes continue his dominant season this year and end up as a Norris finalist again and have a decent playoff, I would put him ahead of Luongo by the summer. Its inevitable that Hughes take over as #1 in the franchise though, no matter how you rank the other players. It is just a matter of time.

 

[geebster]

Luongo is harder to rank as he is a goalie, and I always have trouble ranking skaters with goalies. Luongo has a very high peak and have been good for longer, so if you put him #1 for now, I also wouldn't argue it. If Hughes continue his dominant season this year and end up as a Norris finalist again and have a decent playoff, I would put him ahead of Luongo by the summer. Its inevitable that Hughes take over as #1 in the franchise though, no matter how you rank the other players. It is just a matter of time.

I mostly agree. The thing for me is i still vividly remember how much Luongo changed this team a good 5 years before it was a contender. It was him with no one in front of him. 72 save win in his first playoff game. You can't compare 60 minutes of that vs 25-30 mins of Hughes, its just weird. I'd have Hughes ahead of Bure (as a Canuck, but not as an all time player) if he completes this season as good or better than last year. For Luongo it was years of him stealing games, so as I said I'd need to see Hughes at this level for like 3 seasons at least. 2022-23 he was a top 5 D in the league but not really in the convo with Makar or Fox or Josi yet. Last year was his first year of clearly being the best D in the game.

 

[Coffee]

Sensational is correct

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

from a fan perspective the big three are bure, luongo, and hughes.

not because the sedins, or even markus naslund, weren’t mvp calibre players or at least damn close, but because the first three were just so unprecedented.

when bure came, we had never had a superstar. we were in a conference with the oilers, the kings, and hell even winnipeg had hawerchuk. nobody had ever won an award but he won the calder in year one. nobody had ever scored 50 goals or 100 pts, and bure in his second year hit 60 and 110, and that was a disappointment relative to his pace over the first half of the season. nobody had ever led the league in anything until he led the league in goals in year three and then followed it up by leading the playoffs in goals. nothing about him felt real, or like something the hockey gods would ever allow to happen to us.

luongo and hughes likewise, we had been a team for over 35 years without a superstar can win any game any time by himself goalie, which 2007 luongo was, and for almost fifty years without a superstar control the game dman.

 

[arttk]

not because the sedins, or even markus naslund, weren’t mvp calibre players or at least damn close, but because the first three were just so unprecedented.

Henrik with the Hart and Art Ross.

 

[Curm]

I've been following the Canucks since they entered the NHL, Bure's arrival and most of his tenure was electric, but in my mind, Quinn Hughes is the greatest player in franchise history.

A couple of years from now, he'll be up for an extension and if not by then, what he accomplishes beyond the extension will certainly end the debate for those still on the fence.

 

[bossram]

Started arguing with someone on a main board, but man, Hughes vs. Makar for Norris should not even be close. Hughes has been FAR more impactful. The on/off ice splits and WOWYs are enormous.

Here's Makar with Mackinnon: 65% scoring chance share
Makar without Mackinnon: 50%

Hughes with Miller: 63%
Hughes with Petey: 63%
Hughes without Miller: 65%
Hughes without Petey: 62%

It's literally all Hughes. On Colorado, it's Mackinnon that's the driver.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

if anyone needs an autoresponse for main board threads that discuss hughes,

who is cale makar?

 

[SillyRabbit]

Started arguing with someone on a main board, but man, Hughes vs. Makar for Norris should not even be close. Hughes has been FAR more impactful. The on/off ice splits and WOWYs are enormous.

Here's Makar with Mackinnon: 65% scoring chance share
Makar without Mackinnon: 50%

Hughes with Miller: 63%
Hughes with Petey: 63%
Hughes without Miller: 65%
Hughes without Petey: 62%

It's literally all Hughes. On Colorado, it's Mackinnon that's the driver.

I don't want to disrespect Makar too much, but reflecting back, Josi was honestly robbed for the Norris in '22.

96 points, lead his team in scoring by 10 points.

Makar was fourth on his team in scoring.

Makar is an insane offensive talent but he has so much to work with.

MacKinnon has literally been in video game mode for several seasons now.

This season Hughes is 3 points back of Makar with 2 games in hand. And he's leading his team in scoring by 6 points vs Makar who is third on his team in scoring, 7 points back of MacKinnon.

 

[kanucks25]

Started arguing with someone on a main board, but man, Hughes vs. Makar for Norris should not even be close. Hughes has been FAR more impactful. The on/off ice splits and WOWYs are enormous.

Here's Makar with Mackinnon: 65% scoring chance share
Makar without Mackinnon: 50%

Hughes with Miller: 63%
Hughes with Petey: 63%
Hughes without Miller: 65%
Hughes without Petey: 62%

It's literally all Hughes. On Colorado, it's Mackinnon that's the driver.

Pointless on the main boards.

Avs fans will not have it but you can expect that from the Makar's own fans, that's fine.

But then you have all the fans of the other teams that will not accept the notion of Makar being outplayed, especially by a small guy that hasn't won a Cup and allegedly can't play defense or something

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

His defensive game has undergone a remarkable transformation. I think back to his sophomore year where he was constantly getting muscled off the puck. He's not even that much bigger now, but he's so much more positionally sound and elusive that it doesn't make a difference. Forwards can't hit what they can't catch, and they can't outmuscle a defender when they no longer have the puck.

Even in the playoffs, while Makar and Bouchard had legitimate awful giveaways that led to a high scoring chance/goal, Hughes never had that issue. Sure he was outmuscled and neutralized, but that's more of a result of team mates not properly supporting him than him being bad defensively.

 

[Quinning]

Even in the playoffs, while Makar and Bouchard had legitimate awful giveaways that led to a high scoring chance/goal, Hughes never had that issue. Sure he was outmuscled and neutralized, but that's more of a result of team mates not properly supporting him than him being bad defensively.

He dropped off a cliff after the cheap shot by Hyman. I suspected his shoulder got messed up.

 

[logan5]

Started arguing with someone on a main board, but man, Hughes vs. Makar for Norris should not even be close. Hughes has been FAR more impactful. The on/off ice splits and WOWYs are enormous.

Here's Makar with Mackinnon: 65% scoring chance share
Makar without Mackinnon: 50%

Hughes with Miller: 63%
Hughes with Petey: 63%
Hughes without Miller: 65%
Hughes without Petey: 62%

It's literally all Hughes. On Colorado, it's Mackinnon that's the driver.

What are the numbers reversed? Miller with Hughes. Petey with/without Hughes.

 

[Regal]

What are the numbers reversed? Miller with Hughes. Petey with/without Hughes.

Miller with Hughes: 62.3%
Miller without Hughes: 33.3%

Pettersson with Hughes: 60.2%
Pettersson without Hughes: 48.8%

 

[Regal]

I don't want to disrespect Makar too much, but reflecting back, Josi was honestly robbed for the Norris in '22.

96 points, lead his team in scoring by 10 points.

Makar was fourth on his team in scoring.

Makar is an insane offensive talent but he has so much to work with.

MacKinnon has literally been in video game mode for several seasons now.

This season Hughes is 3 points back of Makar with 2 games in hand. And he's leading his team in scoring by 6 points vs Makar who is third on his team in scoring, 7 points back of MacKinnon.

Josi would have been a deserving winner because Makar missed games, but I think Makar was still clearly better that year. His numbers away from MacKinnon were fantastic that year and he was strong defensively. I think his game has slipped a little in the subsequent years in comparison, but his reputation is still carrying over from that year and the playoffs.

 

[geebster]

Started arguing with someone on a main board, but man, Hughes vs. Makar for Norris should not even be close. Hughes has been FAR more impactful. The on/off ice splits and WOWYs are enormous.

Here's Makar with Mackinnon: 65% scoring chance share
Makar without Mackinnon: 50%

Hughes with Miller: 63%
Hughes with Petey: 63%
Hughes without Miller: 65%
Hughes without Petey: 62%

It's literally all Hughes. On Colorado, it's Mackinnon that's the driver.

What I'm seeing is that Miller is tanking Hughes on purpose. Probably a personal vendetta just like how he hated the city and asked out and hated Horvat. I'm sure Dhaliwal is on the case.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

What I'm seeing is that Miller is tanking Hughes on purpose. Probably a personal vendetta just like how he hated the city and asked out and hated Horvat. I'm sure Dhaliwal is on the case.

Dhaliwal, noted local useful idiot.

 

[Rowlet]

 

[Rowlet]

if anyone needs an autoresponse for main board threads that discuss hughes,

who is cale makar?

Just start spelling it Mackar

 

[potatowejj]

This is unreal. Absolutely unreal.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Thought exercise type of question, but is Hughes a top 5 player in the league right now? I was thinking the other day about players I'd seriously consider trading Hughes for 1:1 (in an imaginary vacuum not considering the team they are on, roster configuration, salary cap, etc).

Off the top of my head I came up with this shitty list:

1) McBaby - Yeah, he's a whiner, entitled, whatever, but also so good.
2) Draisaitl - A monster you want on your team
3) McKinnon - Another game breaker monster
4) Shesterkin - The kind of goalie that should be able to win you cups.
5) Makar - Obviously in the same tier as Hughes

But out of those 5 players, I'm not sure if a Hughes swap for Makar or Shesterkin even changes things, or if I'd even do it outright.....

All this to say, he's pretty aight.

Shesterkin has not been good this season.

Answer to your question is yes. QH is a top5 player in the league. Last season and this.