Player Discussion Quinn Hughes, Pt. VII

[clay]

I think before we do that we cobble some sort of 2 year deal together, compile more data, then see where we’re at. I don’t want to trade away an elite defenseman, and Hughes could still turn out to be that. There are things that Hughes does that are so unique, things you can’t teach.

The risk is that the wait and see approach would tank his trade value if he continues to be a defensive liability.

 

[Luck 6]

The risk is that the wait and see approach would tank his trade value if he continues to be a defensive liability.

I think at the very least Hughes is going to improve offensively in the next two years, as I expect our entire team to improve offensively with an improved powerplay, young player advancement, a deeper top 9, etc. So really, that should hold up his trade value quite valiantly should we decide to go that route.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Pelech signing for $5.75 over 8 years.

He's a little older and fits a different mold as a defense man, but curious if people think this might play a factor in contract talks with Hughes, given they're both going from ELC/new deal.

 

[timw33]

Pelech signing for $5.75 over 8 years.

He's a little older and fits a different mold as a defense man, but curious if people think this might play a factor in contract talks with Hughes, given they're both going from ELC/new deal.

Pelech is 26 and signed a 4 year deal out of his ELC. This new deal buys only one year of RFA and 7 UFA years.

As we're seeing right now counting stat production, or perception of offensive competence, is driving this wild D extension market, so I think Hughes' camp will be pushing for 8+ based on that alone.

 

[bertuzzi2bure]

Feel like this board has started to sleep on Hughes for some reason.

My unpopular opinion is that he pulls a Karlsson and goes near PPG this season. IMO Hughes first 2 seasons were more impressive than Karlssons first 2. It was Karlssons 3rd season that put him in Norris discussion. Hughes could definitely make that jump. 10+ goals and 60+ assists wouldnt be surprising here.

I would say he has all the same elite skills and assets as Karlsson has (had). Maybe Karlsson was a bit faster in his prime? Probably a harder shot too.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Feel like this board has started to sleep on Hughes for some reason.

My unpopular opinion is that he pulls a Karlsson and goes near PPG this season. IMO Hughes first 2 seasons were more impressive than Karlssons first 2. It was Karlssons 3rd season that put him in Norris discussion. Hughes could definitely make that jump. 10+ goals and 60+ assists wouldnt be surprising here.

I would say he has all the same elite skills and assets as Karlsson has (had). Maybe Karlsson was a bit faster in his prime? Probably a harder shot too.

Karlsson had Kuba as his partner in his third season. I won't profess to be an expert on Kuba's time with the Senators, but I imagine he probably was a cut above Hughes' current options are for partners.

Like is Karlsson/Kuba significantly better than Hughes/Hamonic or Hughes/Poolman will be? I'd imagine so.

I'm not trying to shit on Hughes, I am just concerned that I don't think he's being put into a position to really succeed with both "system" from coaches and the personnel being deployed around him.

 

[bertuzzi2bure]

Karlsson had Kuba as his partner in his third season. I won't profess to be an expert on Kuba's time with the Senators, but I imagine he probably was a cut above Hughes' current options are for partners.

Like is Karlsson/Kuba significantly better than Hughes/Hamonic or Hughes/Poolman will be? I'd imagine so.

I'm not trying to shit on Hughes, I am just concerned that I don't think he's being put into a position to really succeed with both "system" from coaches and the personnel being deployed around him.

Kuba? lol are you serious? Kuba had little to no impact on Karlsson going from 40ish points to high 70s.

Karlsson never played with anyone great in Ottawa. After Kuba was that random stay at home dman who got vastly overrated. Having a brain fart and cant remember his name now. All he had to do was sit back.

The hate on the Canucks defense is a bit much on this board IMO. A Hamonic or Poolman is all Hughes needs. Just someone to sit back and play positionally well to cover his runs. The difference between Tanev and Hamonic or Poolman really isnt that much. I loved Tanev but he got way overrated on this board. He was a black hole offensively and everyone seemed to love him with Hughes. I dont see why Hamonic or Poolman would be any different. Hughes "slump" last season I think was a mix of a) sophomore slump b) covid c) overall trash team. The forward group is top 10 now and will contribute a lot more to Hughes production than his d partner.

All imo.

 

[F A N]

Pelech signing for $5.75 over 8 years.

He's a little older and fits a different mold as a defense man, but curious if people think this might play a factor in contract talks with Hughes, given they're both going from ELC/new deal.

I don't think it has any effect. Completely different Dman that makes the number of UFA years bought irrelevant.

 

[Grantham]

Looking at some advanced stats for Hughes last season, it seems he did his best alongside Jordie Benn. But the sample size was a bit small.

So I think there is some truth to that he doesn't need a great skilled D to play with, just the right one.

His most common partner was Hamonic. They were ok, but what was startling was the high danger chances they allowed. It was about as bad as any top pairing from any other team that I looked at. So it wasn't the amount of chances, it was the quality of chances they allowed.

Side point: I still don't love the fact we have no shutdown D pair anymore.

 

[bertuzzi2bure]

Looking at some advanced stats for Hughes last season, it seems he did his best alongside Jordie Benn. But the sample size was a bit small.

So I think there is some truth to that he doesn't need a great skilled D to play with, just the right one.

His most common partner was Hamonic. They were ok, but what was startling was the high danger chances they allowed. It was about as bad as any top pairing from any other team that I looked at. So it wasn't the amount of chances, it was the quality of chances they allowed.

Side point: I still don't love the fact we have no shutdown D pair anymore.

OEL doesnt need to be the point producer here. Hughes and Rathbone can be. OEL is a very smart player.... I think people are also sleeping on him being able to become more of a hybrid type like Hamhuis.

 

[MS]

Looking at some advanced stats for Hughes last season, it seems he did his best alongside Jordie Benn. But the sample size was a bit small.

So I think there is some truth to that he doesn't need a great skilled D to play with, just the right one.

His most common partner was Hamonic. They were ok, but what was startling was the high danger chances they allowed. It was about as bad as any top pairing from any other team that I looked at. So it wasn't the amount of chances, it was the quality of chances they allowed.

Side point: I still don't love the fact we have no shutdown D pair anymore.

When he played with Benn they were essentially the 3rd pairing and getting *really* sheltered.

When he played with Hamonic he was getting higher-leverage 2nd pairing minutes.

I don't think he played worse with Hamonic, it's just that when you up his leverage he starts to bleed goals everywhere.

 

[Grantham]

When he played with Benn they were essentially the 3rd pairing and getting *really* sheltered.

When he played with Hamonic he was getting higher-leverage 2nd pairing minutes.

I don't think he played worse with Hamonic, it's just that when you up his leverage he starts to bleed goals everywhere.

Thats a good point. I actually like the way Hamonic played in the latter part of the season, and I thought he was maybe our best defensive D. Not a high bar I know.

With our construct this year, I think Hughes will likely face even tougher minutes. He has phases were he is quite decent defensively, and others where he just gets caved in. Any thoughts or observations as to why you think that is so?

 

[Grantham]

OEL doesnt need to be the point producer here. Hughes and Rathbone can be. OEL is a very smart player.... I think people are also sleeping on him being able to become more of a hybrid type like Hamhuis.

I'm hoping for the same, but preparing for the worst (regarding OEL).

And why do you pay OEL 7million to not play offence. That is probably his best attribute. He is nowhere near Hamhuis defensively, but I'll need to watch him on our team and hope to be proven wrong there. I really hope it was the demoralizing situation in Arizona that had him fall off a cliff like that. Earlier in his career, he used to be quite good defensively, so there is some hope.

 

[Nazzlind]

Hamonic shoots too much

he needs to do a better job getting the puck back to Hughes if he’s gonna be playing again with him this season

 

[supercanuck]

I think at the very least Hughes is going to improve offensively in the next two years, as I expect our entire team to improve offensively with an improved powerplay, young player advancement, a deeper top 9, etc. So really, that should hold up his trade value quite valiantly should we decide to go that route.

I would only trade Hughes now for a ridiculous overpayment (i.e. "you would be stupid not to take it"). Given a capable partner and coach, I believe he can become at least average defensively while providing game breaking offense. The risk of a trade backfiring is extremely high, IMO.

 

[Breakers]

Benning’s procrastinating is once again coming back to bite him.

More and more bad comparables.

 

[strattonius]

I'm hoping for the same, but preparing for the worst (regarding OEL).

And why do you pay OEL 7million to not play offence. That is probably his best attribute. He is nowhere near Hamhuis defensively, but I'll need to watch him on our team and hope to be proven wrong there. I really hope it was the demoralizing situation in Arizona that had him fall off a cliff like that. Earlier in his career, he used to be quite good defensively, so there is some hope.

Hes never been as bad defensively as everyone has been parroting around here lately. He's been noticeably worse the last 2 years than what he was before - and that was a guy capable of winning a Norris. He's nowhere close to that at the moment and when you couple that drop off with some bad advanced metrics everyone jumps off a cliff.

Basically his contract is too long and for too much aav so it's more of a bash on Benning for acquiring it - but OEL will at worst be a good 2nd pairing dman next year. And when he's a decent top minute man on our blueline next year a lot of us won't be all that surprised.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Kuba? lol are you serious? Kuba had little to no impact on Karlsson going from 40ish points to high 70s.

Hence why I said I'm not an expert on Kuba's time in Ottawa. All I know is that he's a former All Star who was a fairly reliable defender. No idea what he was like at that point in his career, but Karlsson did spend the bulk of his time with him as a partner.

The hate on the Canucks defense is a bit much on this board IMO. A Hamonic or Poolman is all Hughes needs. Just someone to sit back and play positionally well to cover his runs. The difference between Tanev and Hamonic or Poolman really isnt that much. I loved Tanev but he got way overrated on this board. He was a black hole offensively and everyone seemed to love him with Hughes. I dont see why Hamonic or Poolman would be any different. Hughes "slump" last season I think was a mix of a) sophomore slump b) covid c) overall trash team. The forward group is top 10 now and will contribute a lot more to Hughes production than his d partner.

All imo.

I would argue that the Canucks D hasn't been particularly great for a while and the team has lost several solid players (Edler, Tanev and some would argue Schmidt) while at first glance bringing in replacements that aren't at the same level as the players they were supposed to replace.

I do think that there is a bigger difference between Tanev and Hamonic/Poolman than you think. It's possible for Hughes to bounce back from what was a bad season, but I do not think that he is being positioned well to do that. In other words, I am skeptical that Hamonic is going to work out the second time around and that Poolman isn't going to be much better.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Feel like this board has started to sleep on Hughes for some reason.

My unpopular opinion is that he pulls a Karlsson and goes near PPG this season. IMO Hughes first 2 seasons were more impressive than Karlssons first 2. It was Karlssons 3rd season that put him in Norris discussion. Hughes could definitely make that jump. 10+ goals and 60+ assists wouldnt be surprising here.

I would say he has all the same elite skills and assets as Karlsson has (had). Maybe Karlsson was a bit faster in his prime? Probably a harder shot too.

He’s a top 10 , worst at defending in the entire NHL.

 

[bossram]

Kuba? lol are you serious? Kuba had little to no impact on Karlsson going from 40ish points to high 70s.

Karlsson never played with anyone great in Ottawa. After Kuba was that random stay at home dman who got vastly overrated. Having a brain fart and cant remember his name now. All he had to do was sit back.

The hate on the Canucks defense is a bit much on this board IMO. A Hamonic or Poolman is all Hughes needs. Just someone to sit back and play positionally well to cover his runs. The difference between Tanev and Hamonic or Poolman really isnt that much. I loved Tanev but he got way overrated on this board. He was a black hole offensively and everyone seemed to love him with Hughes. I dont see why Hamonic or Poolman would be any different. Hughes "slump" last season I think was a mix of a) sophomore slump b) covid c) overall trash team. The forward group is top 10 now and will contribute a lot more to Hughes production than his d partner.

All imo.

The bolded is incredible lmao. Through his prime (and last season!), Tanev was legitimately one of the best defensive defensemen in the game. Hamonic is at best a 4/5 and Poolman should under no circumstances be played above the bottom-pair. This statement is just not even close to being true.

Hughes' production isn't guaranteed if Benning's "prized" acquisition of OEL forces them to put OEL on the 1PP and more offensive minutes. That would cannibalize from Hughes.

 

[canuckking1]

I think he'll bounce back this season. No practice, insane schedule, and a revolving door of partners never really allowed himself to catch his footing after a horrible start. Revenge season incoming!

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Quinton is going to bend Benning over on a new deal with all these deals around the league.

Love it.

Dinkey Benning strikes again cause it takes forever because he has to finish his D&D game before he can do anything else.

 

[Hoglander]

Quinton is going to bend Benning over on a new deal with all these deals around the league.

Love it.

Dinkey Benning strikes again cause it takes forever because he has to finish his D&D game before he can do anything else.

So you actually want Hughes to get overpaid and handcuff this team? stupid.

You gonna sport a Kraken avatar next?

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Benning would have been smart to get QH signed BEFORE Makar, Hamilton , Nurse etc. That being said , they are all way better defensively than QH.
He could have set the market instead of chasing it but …. That wouldn’t be a very Jim thing to do.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Benning would have been smart to get QH signed BEFORE Makar, Hamilton , Nurse etc. That being said , they are all way better defensively than QH.
He could have set the market instead of chasing it but …. That wouldn’t be a very Jim thing to do.

I really don't think that there was any incentive for Hughes to sign early, particularly after the season he had.