Quebec City trying to keep the flame alive

[Yukon Joe]

I clearly said year-round ice surfaces. There are 16 ice surfaces in the state of Arizona, the majority of which do not operate year-round.

I mean even in Edmonton lots of ice surfaces don't operate "year round". Demand for ice goes down in the summer, so it makes sense to close them. I imagine the cost of keeping a sheetof ice in an Arizona summer has to be pretty high as well.

 

[BlueSeal]

Or they don’t like QC as a market? Maybe it’s that. No city is entitled to NHL team.

And yet there are proponents in the league who are circling around Atlanta for the third time due to population and totally ignoring the concept of interest in the sport.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

And yet there are proponents in the league who are circling around Atlanta for the third time due to population and totally ignoring the concept of interest in the sport.

Yea because Atlanta is a big market with lots of money, something QC isn't. QC can be passionate all they want, without money it means nothing to NHL. They can capture only part of the market in Atlanta and still be ahead of QC. Thats just the reality.

 

[BMN]

What exactly are you saying...

I'll link it again:

Quebec City trying to keep the flame alive

All the moves Bettman made have been undone with the only exception being the Nordiques. He clearly has a grudge with QC and from where I sit it might be because giving the Nordiques back would complete undoing all the moves he did. Bettman didn’t move the Nordiques.

forums.hfboards.com

Re-read it again. I sometimes fall out of my chair laughing at people who retort "you typed too much!" as if 1--- it were any kind of logical retort or 2--- a few paragraphs of reading was all that much. Sure sign I'm dealing with someone at a 2nd grade level of intelligence (but not a 2nd graders' level of effort. 2nd graders try at least).

 

[BlueSeal]

Yea because Atlanta is a big market with lots of money, something QC isn't. QC can be passionate all they want, without money it means nothing to NHL.

That has yet been unable to keep an NHL team there... twice. Having an area with lots of money doesn't make it "your" market or that you will make lots of money from it, unless the NHL's real game is to make their money on the 'Franchise Fees' upfront and not care about the product. Hell, you got a team playing at a 5,000 seat college rink where they can't even prominently display their own logo on the ice.

Meanwhile, you got a fairly new stadium in QC. Small market is whatever, you got plenty of small market teams in the NHL who do well with teams like the aformentioned Jets having far, far more resources than folks realize. Grow the sport and the money will follow. Thing is, I feel the NHL Board of Govenors wants their money all and upfront and for what?

I followed the Thrashers and would love to see another team in Atlanta, I don't have an issue with that but I do and will question the logic in relocating a team there without something solid there that isn't years, if not decades off of being constructed or made, if at all. I have a huge issue with the current state of the Yotes. It's insulting to an NHL team to be placed in a position to operate like they have to.

 

[tucker3434]

That has yet been unable to keep an NHL team there... twice. Having an area with lots of money doesn't make it "your" market or that you will make lots of money from it, unless the NHL's real game is to make their money on the 'Franchise Fees' upfront and not care about the product. Hell, you got a team playing at a 5,000 seat college rink where they can't even prominently display their own logo on the ice.

So just like Quebec?

The Thrashers didn't leave due to a lack of support, but a lack of a building.

 

[BlueSeal]

So just like Quebec?

The Thrashers didn't leave due to a lack of support, but a lack of a building.

Bulldogs? Really?

So Kenora shouldn't get their Thistles back, either? lol

 

[tucker3434]

Bulldogs? Really?

So Kenora shouldn't get their Thistles back, either? lol

It says about as much about the current market as the 1970's Flames says about Atlanta, pretty much nothing.

 

[BlueSeal]

It says about as much about the current market as the 1970's Flames says about Atlanta, pretty much nothing.

Time has repeated itself there, granted in some different ways, but the results are the same.

Yet they still don't have a building and all it's a matter of if's. Meanwhile there is another stadium ready to go... but that's tonedeaf because logic doesn't work in this timeline, either. It's like keeping a team in a small college rink in the desert for the HOPE that something happens there.

Glad those folks aren't doing my financial planning.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

That has yet been unable to keep an NHL team there... twice.

Washington had MLB team twice before Nationals....

Please stop with this lazy logic.

Time has repeated itself there, granted in some different ways, but the results are the same.

Yet they still don't have a building and all it's a matter of if's. Meanwhile there is another stadium ready to go... but that's tonedeaf because logic doesn't work in this timeline, either. It's like keeping a team in a small college rink in the desert for the HOPE that something happens there.

Glad those folks aren't doing my financial planning.

They are still making more money per second than you will ever do in your lifetime.

 

[tucker3434]

Time has repeated itself there, granted in some different ways, but the results are the same.

Yet they still don't have a building and all it's a matter of if's. Meanwhile there is another stadium ready to go... but that's tonedeaf because logic doesn't work in this timeline, either. It's like keeping a team in a small college rink in the desert for the HOPE that something happens there.

Glad those folks aren't doing my financial planning.

Again, our issue was not having a place to play. If we build an arena whose primary purpose is to house a NHL team, that concern goes away.

I assume you've jumped back to Arizona now. They aren't for sale and the owners don't want to move them. That's all there is to that at the moment. If they do get put up for sale, it'll be QC's best, and probably only, shot.

 

[BlueSeal]

Again, our issue was not having a place to play. If we build an arena whose primary purpose is to house a NHL team, that concern goes away.

Not jumping around, this isn't a non sequitur since conventional wisdom seems to be that if Atlanta gets a team, there's a fairly good chance it's the Yotes if they can't build a home somehow in the desert.

If the area is a large/larger market, why hasn't there been one built, even if it's not primarily for hockey?

Genuinely curious question.

 

[tucker3434]

Not jumping around, this isn't a non sequitur since conventional wisdom seems to be that if Atlanta gets a team, there's a fairly good chance it's the Yotes if they can't build a home somehow in the desert.

If the area is a large/larger market, why hasn't there been one built, even if it's not primarily for hockey?

Genuinely curious question.

Atlanta is further down the road than Arizona. That situation will be resolved before Atlanta is seriously considered.

We have one, but it's controlled by the Hawks. Their ownership has never been interested in hockey, so it's out. We also have another 13k seat area for the ECHL team that's closer to the proposed area location. Admittedly, it's nowhere close to NBA/NHL quality. But the area has been exploding the last 20 years or so, and it's just time for another.

 

[Jets4Life]

They’ve “sold out” every game. The majority of that is probably them giving away tickets to their corporate partners and affiliates. On paper, sure the tickets are being “sold”. Nobody watches or gives a crap about hockey in Arizona; there are like 2 year-round ice surfaces in the entire state.

Proof?

 

[Jets4Life]

Do you think Atlanta could potentially snipe the Jets back? The attendance issues are growing more and more concerning..

No.

Chipman and Thompson (TNSE) bought the team for $110 million + a $60 million relocation fee. Today, the team is worth nearly $950 million, meaning the value of the team is 600% higher than when they have purchased it. Secondly, David Thomson had the plan of using the Jets as leverage, since he was planning on buying up a ton of downtown real estate, and turning it into various projects, residential and commercial. So even if the Jets lose millions a year, a clever accountant can write off the losses, due to all the property TNSE wons downtown.

Additionally, Thomson is Canada's richest man, valued at over $18 billion, and Chipman is a die-hard Jets fan, and has made tons of money by purchasing the team. I can't see the Jets leaving in the next two decades, even if they average 2,000+ empty seats a game.

 

[Jets4Life]

I wonder what the sentiment of Bettman would be if he were Canadian. Most Canadian cities (arguably) cannot support NHL franchises. The passion is there, but what else is there?

LOL...what? The NHL has seven NHL franchises that have made hundreds of millions in the past 20 years. In fact, the NHL could place 2 more teams in Southern Ontario, and the odds are they would turn a profit. Quebec City also would probably be successful, considering they are not that much different than Winnipeg, which has made millions since the Jets return.

It should also be noted that the population of Canada is far outpacing any other nation in the Western World, including America. If Ontario were a state, it would be #5 in population, and would overtake New York within the next decade.

 

[Jets4Life]

Some of this is now almost ancient history, but the league did more than that to keep Arizona.

Remember the league was paying the team's bills back in 2008-2009. The owner planned to sell the team to Balsillie, but the league blocked him in court and went so far as to purchase the team out of bankruptcy. That was a lot more then they did for any other team.

Balsallie would be the owner of an NHL team if he played by the rules. Balsallie was his own worst enemy. IIRC, he first tried to buy the Penguins. Then he tried to buy the Nashville Predators, promising they would stay in Nashville. Balsallie broke that promise, indicating he wanted to place the team in Southern Ontario, and the sale was voided.

Then he bought the Coyotes. Problem is, he went out of his way to antagonise the NHL owners and Bettman, by giving them the middle finger, and made it clear that he was going to move the team to Hamilton, and even went as far, as promoting a season ticket drive to Hamilton area residents, even if the owners had not even ratified the sale. At the end, the owners refused to validate the sale, and took over the team themselves, at which point Balsallie sued the NHL.

This happened before. In 1983, Edmonton businessman Bill Hunter had bought the St.Louis Blues from Purina Dog Food (who owned the team), and had announced that they would play in Saskatoon. The NHL voted 15-3 against the sale, since Saskatoon had no NHL suitable arena at the time, and they viewed the Saskatoon market as too small for an NHL team. Incensed, Hunter and the Blues refused to take part in the 1983 NHL draft, and walked away from the team. The NHL took over the Blues, until an owner eventually was found.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

LOL...what? The NHL has seven NHL franchises that have made hundreds of millions in the past 20 years.

Well only 7 out of hundreds of Canadian cities have NHL teams so he is technically correct.

 

[Jets4Life]

Well only 7 out of hundreds of Canadian cities have NHL teams so he is technically correct.

There are only 9 Canadian markets that can support teams, not "hundreds of Canadian cities." The population in Canada is only 40 million.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

They just got hustled by NHL. SMH.

Yep. 3 posts in and this (correct) statement is pretty much all you need to know.

The NHL doesn't want to go back to Quebec. They've made that abundantly clear. People can bicker back and forth on this issue (I personally adore Quebec) but it's clear that the NHL would only consider Quebec in an emergency basis where they have literally no other choice whatsoever, and they'd do everything to exhaust other possibilities beforehand.

It is what it is.

 

[TheLegend]

Yep. 3 posts in and this (correct) statement is pretty much all you need to know.

Disagree….

They got hustled by PKP.

League said they would need a new arena for starters but it also wouldn’t guarantee they would get approved for an expansion.

Bettman was quite clear on that point and everyone one ignored it.

 

[edog37]

But they’ll let the Yotes play in a 5000 seat college rink that they can’t even remotely sell out and continue to ‘assist’ the franchise.

Spare me.

Quit whining, it’s pathetic

Disagree….

They got hustled by PKP.

League said they would need a new arena for starters but it also wouldn’t guarantee they would get approved for an expansion.

Bettman was quite clear on that point and everyone one ignored it.

Agreed. People forget this is a business first & foremost. QC offers nothing to the league.

 

[BlueSeal]

Atlanta is further down the road than Arizona. That situation will be resolved before Atlanta is seriously considered.

We have one, but it's controlled by the Hawks. Their ownership has never been interested in hockey, so it's out. We also have another 13k seat area for the ECHL team that's closer to the proposed area location. Admittedly, it's nowhere close to NBA/NHL quality. But the area has been exploding the last 20 years or so, and it's just time for another.

Quit whining, it’s pathetic


Agreed. People forget this is a business first & foremost. QC offers nothing to the league.

Good job whining lol

 

[dj4aces]

Its a free country right and your words alone speak to dictatorship,friend

No? I mean, others have kinda broken down what's wrong certain speech, such as libelous remarks, so I'm gonna take another approach.

Unless a Republic of HFboards or some such was founded at some point while I wasn't looking, complete with a constitution that featured something similar to the First Amendment to the US Constitution, then no, this isn't a 'free country'.

Do you think Atlanta could potentially snipe the Jets back? The attendance issues are growing more and more concerning..

I don't see a scenario where a potential owner in Atlanta could, honestly. The only way it happens is if Chipman and Thomson chooses to walk away. I don't see that as likely, or even within the realm of possibility.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Im happy there's not going to be a team in Quebec.

NHL needs to grow the game. Putting it in quebec does absolutely nothing , bad economy and tiny population , plus what player would want to play there when everything is in french and you sre taxed out the ass lmao. At least montreal is bilingual

Agreed. People forget this is a business first & foremost. QC offers nothing to the league.

Actually i think they would offer lots of negativity towards the province itself when all the players fail to report. Seriously though.