Quebec City trying to keep the flame alive

[BMN]

Ah yes. The South never fired first, it only ever clapped back. * eyeroll *

I can't decide if it's more or less condescending that you don't see how it's condescending.....

Glad you're on the record with your accusations of xenophobia though since at least one other user denied you even said it even though i f%@ing quoted it.

 

[Nordskull]

lol

Sorry, gimme 2 minutes, the time I look on a map wheres Raleigh.

 

[OG6ix]

I'm glad @OG6ix provided the comment below. Because a few months ago, I did a longwinded post trying to explain how the hurt of the NHL leaving Winnipeg/Quebec City is very very different from that of the NHL leaving Atlanta. And some users got it. But some were angry about it and tried to not only insist they were the same pains but that Quebec hockey fans are big meanies (and in one user's case, straight up said they should "pound sand" and insisted they were xenophobic). But then someone comes along and types....


.....and that person is nowhere to be found to see that this is exactly the type of thing that Canadian markets are supposed to just casually listen to and absorb without taking offense. If I told you that international fans and, in fact, many Canadian fans didn't know nor care where Raleigh or Columbus are, how would that be greeted exactly?

Quebec City would absolutely be the smallest market in the NHL. And if that's an argument for not going there, that's fine. But the idea that we shouldn't go to a place because "Americans might never have heard of it" and that Quebec City would make the NHL look "minor league" is the ultimate in condescension.

(EDIT: I should clarify, the aforementioned user wasn't @OG6ix who I'm otherwise not quibbling with here).

I'm glad @OG6ix provided the comment below. Because a few months ago, I did a longwinded post trying to explain how the hurt of the NHL leaving Winnipeg/Quebec City is very very different from that of the NHL leaving Atlanta. And some users got it. But some were angry about it and tried to not only insist they were the same pains but that Quebec hockey fans are big meanies (and in one user's case, straight up said they should "pound sand" and insisted they were xenophobic). But then someone comes along and types....


.....and that person is nowhere to be found to see that this is exactly the type of thing that Canadian markets are supposed to just casually listen to and absorb without taking offense. If I told you that international fans and, in fact, many Canadian fans didn't know nor care where Raleigh or Columbus are, how would that be greeted exactly?

Quebec City would absolutely be the smallest market in the NHL. And if that's an argument for not going there, that's fine. But the idea that we shouldn't go to a place because "Americans might never have heard of it" and that Quebec City would make the NHL look "minor league" is the ultimate in condescension.

(EDIT: I should clarify, the aforementioned user wasn't @OG6ix who I'm otherwise not quibbling with here).

It's true though. You are not marketing the game to Canadians so what a Canadian thinks about Raleigh (even though they market them as Carolina for a reason) is a moot point. It's only one consideration not the be all end but it's definitely a factor.

 

[BMN]

It's true though. You are not marketing the game to Canadians so what a Canadian thinks about Raleigh (even though they market them as Carolina for a reason) is a moot point. It's only one consideration not the be all end but it's definitely a factor.

But the answer to that marketing challenge is provided right there with the Hurricanes: "Quebec" also happens to be the name of the whole province of which people are pretty aware (OK "Carolina" isn't a state but two states, but you get my point). Honestly I daresay even among Americans, the word "Quebec" has a more worldly cache than "Calgary" or "Edmonton." They weren't the "Quebec City Nordiques," after all.

Also, I think what made the Nordiques look more "minor league" than anything wasn't the city they played in but their antiquated arena. That wouldn't be a factor with the Videotron.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Also, I think what made the Nordiques look more "minor league" than anything wasn't the city they played in but their antiquated arena. That wouldn't be a factor with the Videotron.

Through today's eyes the Colisee looks antiquated but by 1980s standards it was a pretty normal NHL arena. This was an era when you had places like the Buffalo Aud, the St. Louis Arena, the Winnipeg Arena, Boston Garden, the Hartford Civic Center all part of the league.

 

[Nordskull]

Through today's eyes the Colisee looks antiquated but by 1980s standards it was a pretty normal NHL arena. This was an era when you had places like the Buffalo Aud, the St. Louis Arena, the Winnipeg Arena, Boston Garden, the Hartford Civic Center all part of the league.

He's got a point.

But in all honesty, the NHL is now a United states owned and operated league. We Canadians have only ourself to blame for loosing any influence on it.

Started in 1967, and in a more local note, Quebec lost its team because of its own fault, the fault of its mayor at the time, and maybe a bit of its owner Aubut.

In the end, doesnt matter, the Qc case is totally over and only lunatics still have hope.

 

[jetsmooseice]

He's got a point.

But in all honesty, the NHL is now a United states owned and operated league. We Canadians have only ourself to blame for loosing any influence on it.

Started in 1967, and in a more local note, Quebec lost its team because of its own fault, the fault of its mayor at the time, and maybe a bit of its owner Aubut.

In the end, doesnt matter, the Qc case is totally over and only lunatics still have hope.

I agree that it's predominantly American. Although realistically it always has been for as long as any of us have been alive. It's just that the degree of US influence has grown to the point where Canada is basically an afterthought to them now.

That said, I would not count out Quebec forever. Right now is not an awesome time economically in Canada, but if the situation improves and the C$ bounces back (which was the situation around 2011) then a door could open. The prospective owners will have to be prepared to make a quick move when that happens and if the proper opportunity presents itself.

 

[BMN]

I would not count out Quebec forever. Right now is not an awesome time economically in Canada, but if the situation improves and the C$ bounces back (which was the situation around 2011) then a door could open. The prospective owners will have to be prepared to make a quick move when that happens and if the proper opportunity presents itself.

I look at it as sort of like being a boxer who isn't the top contender for the title...but who never knows if the champ will be looking for a "tune-up" title defense if all of the "real" challengers go MIA/get injured (or on the real life part of the analogy, the NHL's desire for another team or relocation flares up just as none of the major markets have any interested players). Are you likely to get said title shot? Not really. Are your odds of winning the fight should you get it great? Maybe even less. But Buster Douglas didn't win the heavyweight title by not being prepared when the time came.....

 

[Stumbledore]

I look at it as sort of like being a boxer who isn't the top contender for the title...but who never knows if the champ will be looking for a "tune-up" title defense if all of the "real" challengers go MIA/get injured (or on the real life part of the analogy, the NHL's desire for another team or relocation flares up just as none of the major markets have any interested players). Are you likely to get said title shot? Not really. Are your odds of winning the fight should you get it great? Maybe even less. But Buster Douglas didn't win the heavyweight title by not being prepared when the time came.....

You look at it as being a boxer?

I look at Quebec as being an EBUG.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

He's got a point.

But in all honesty, the NHL is now a United states owned and operated league. We Canadians have only ourself to blame for loosing any influence on it.

Started in 1967, and in a more local note, Quebec lost its team because of its own fault, the fault of its mayor at the time, and maybe a bit of its owner Aubut.

In the end, doesnt matter, the Qc case is totally over and only lunatics still have hope.

NHL never belonged to Canadian people. It always belonged to wealthy elites who happened to be Canadians and decided to make more money expanding the league south.

It started when NHL expanded the league to US back in early 1900s, not 1967, if we are gonna be honest.

 

[rojac]

NHL never belonged to Canadian people. It always belonged to wealthy elites who happened to be Canadians and decided to make more money expanding the league south.

It started when NHL expanded the league to US back in early 1900s, not 1967, if we are gonna be honest.

Yup. Boston Bruins n 1924 was the first.

 

[Stumbledore]

NHL never belonged to Canadian people. It always belonged to wealthy elites who happened to be Canadians

So, you're saying the NHL didn't belong to Canadians, it belonged to people who happened to be Canadians.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

So, you're saying the NHL didn't belong to Canadians, it belonged to people who happened to be Canadians.

Yes. They didn't give rats ass about being Canadians and chased dollar and went south didn't they?

Come on man. NHL was never ever about Canadian identity. Just making money.

 

[BMN]

chased dollar and went south didn't they?

Counterpoint: What could be more Canadian than that?

 

[MXD]

I actually agree with Stumbledore for once. How many people outside US heard of Columbus or Raleigh? If Columbus didn't have NHL team I doubt even Canadians would know where it was. Unless they like college football.

A lot of people outside the US know about Christopher Columbus and Walter Raleigh.

 

[Nordskull]

Yes. They didn't give rats ass about being Canadians and chased dollar and went south didn't they?

Come on man. NHL was never ever about Canadian identity. Just making money.

The NHL came close to bankruptcy around the 40's if I'm right. Lets say the expression making money now is not exactly the same as of 80 years ago.

The NHL was born on the relics of the NHA, yes Canada had control.

I respect your opinion, but dont agree. Cheers.

 

[joelef]

Counterpoint: What could be more Canadian than that?

The

Yes. They didn't give rats ass about being Canadians and chased dollar and went south didn't they?

Come on man. NHL was never ever about Canadian identity. Just making money.

And it was maple leafs and canadiens that keep the nhl from having a 3 rd team because they didn’t want to share Canadian tv rights. It took the treat if an antitrust lawsuit in the 70s before they added Vancouver

 

[Stumbledore]

The
And it was maple leafs and canadiens that keep the nhl from having a 3 rd team because they didn’t want to share Canadian tv rights. It took the treat if an antitrust lawsuit in the 70s before they added Vancouver

Yeah, raising our kids we always had more success with treats than threats.

 

[Jets4Life]

Unfortunately the lack of corporate presence in a government town is a big factor for owners. The QC metro population is bigger by Winnipeg's by a hair, but Winnipeg's corporate base is much larger.

Winnipeg now has 25,000 more people in it's metro area than Quebec. WInnipeg has been growing faster than QC for 15 years.

 

[Jets4Life]

The
And it was maple leafs and canadiens that keep the nhl from having a 3 rd team because they didn’t want to share Canadian tv rights. It took the treat if an antitrust lawsuit in the 70s before they added Vancouver

The 3 Canadian teams kept the WHA/NHL merger from happening in the late 70s, since they did not want to share TV rights with Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Quebec (who were hoping to be admitted).

It took a beer boycott for Vancouver and Montreal to change their mind.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Winnipeg now has 25,000 more people in it's metro area than Quebec. WInnipeg has been growing faster than QC for 15 years.

25,000 is nothing. Especially since the new residents may not care about hockey. In Quebec you have a passionate audience and beyond the metropolis of Quebec, it is all of Quebec-North that must be counted. People from Chicoutimi would make the trip. Winnipeg is lost in Manitoba.

 

[Jets4Life]

25,000 is nothing. Especially since the new residents may not care about hockey. In Quebec you have a passionate audience and beyond the metropolis of Quebec, it is all of Quebec-North that must be counted. People from Chicoutimi would make the trip. Winnipeg is lost in Manitoba.

That's a bunch of BS, and you know it. Manitobans are just as passionate as people in the Quebec City region are.

Most people in Winnipeg want to see Quebec return to the NHL. By attacking Winnipeg for whatever reason, you are going to lose whatever support you ahve left. We both know that through their original history in the WHA and NHL (1972-95), Winnipeg and Quebec were always in the same boat (fan support, arena, small market, WHA teams, etc).

At any rate, you should concentrate on convincing people that Quebec should ahve a team, not attacking a virtually identical market.

 

[Jets4Life]

Through today's eyes the Colisee looks antiquated but by 1980s standards it was a pretty normal NHL arena. This was an era when you had places like the Buffalo Aud, the St. Louis Arena, the Winnipeg Arena, Boston Garden, the Hartford Civic Center all part of the league.

Most of the arenas you mention were antiquated in the 1980s. With the exception of Hartford, all of those cities were pushing for new arenas to be built. Boston, Buffalo, and St.Louis all built new arenas in the mid 90s. By the late 80s, Marcel Aubit was beginnning to make threats abiout moving the team if he did not get a new areana among other things.

The Winnipeg Arena was never adequate for NHL hockey. It was built for 10,500 people. They squeezed in 5,000 upper deck seats as a requirement for the NHL. Unfortunately, those seats compromised the arena, leaving hundreds of obstructed seats in the lower section. Additionally, the sight lines in the nosebleeds were brutal, and many people were intimidated to sit in the upper deck due to the extreme angle the seats were constructed, making it seem that one wrong step would cause a person to tumble, and seriously injure themselves.

 

[Yukon Joe]

An argument over which of Winnipeg or Quebec City is a larger market, or has more committed fans, really misses the mark.

The question is: does Quebec City have an owner/owners willing to pay in the neighbourhood of $650 million to $1 billion (US) for an NHL franchise?

If they do (putting aside the issue that PK Peladeau controls the Centre Videotron) then I expect that the league would put a team in Quebec City sooner or later. I would suggest that the fact no team has gone there is due to the fact no ownership group with enough funds has stepped forward.

 

[GordonGraham]

I know those meetings are pretty much pointless but Quebec's finance minister once again met with Gary Bettman in in NYC today