Quebec City trying to keep the flame alive

[edog37]

You have to be incredibly delusional at this point to think Quebec has a any shot especially seeing how Winnipeg is failing badly.

agreed. There are a lot of delusional fans on here.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

Haha!!!
Where is Winnipeg failing??
Team is still MAKING money, ownership is building up the downtown with a mega project just announced.
I love how much you hate Winnipeg. I hope it makes you tue angriest little man on your street.
I hope your day is filled with rain and that your dog shots on your couch haha
You deserve it

1 spot ahead and 1 million more in profits than the Florida Panthers a team many think should be relocated.

 

[BMN]

1 spot ahead and 1 million more in profits than the Florida Panthers a team many think should be relocated.

FWIW, I've never advocated for relocating Florida (in fact, I always find it highly amusing whenever they're cited as a "troubled" franchise despite being nowhere near in danger of relocating since their earliest years...I can't recall a single moment I ever thought they were in peril of relocating since they've been in Sunrise).

But comparing the Jets and Panthers based solely on where they are on the Forbes list right now ignores the fact the Jets have never lost money a single year they've been in Winnipeg, which is something you can't say for the Panthers. (It also ignores the whole "but the Jets have had on-ice success" argument that's been used to rationalize that "the Jets attendance numbers are even worse than they look while the Thrashers attendance numbers are even better than they look." Because the Panthers just advanced to the Stanley Cup Finals so by the same logic used in other threads, that organization in a big metro area using American currency should be deeply embarrassed to still be behind the Jets on this list).

Also, if you want to use these Forbes lists as the almighty be-all, end-all (and honestly we really shouldn't), the Thrashers were one spot from the bottom of said list in their final season (and other seasons), a spot the Jets have never come close to occupying. And I know your whole fantasy is somehow pretending the franchise is in as rough of shape or rougher than it was in Atlanta, but I'm sorry that that's not even close to the case (we can argue the causes and reasons for hours and in fact do so on this board frequently but it won't change today's reality).

I mean, let's be real: Atlanta is 99% certain to get another franchise and it's 95% certain to be worth more than the Jets immediately upon entry. And for a good while after that if not forever so long as it's run right. And most of us think this is a good thing (except your Hammer42s of the world which are rarer than you're imagining them to be).

And yet somehow it doesn't seem like you'll be satisfied until the Jets have left Winnipeg or--- until that day arrives because you're oh-so-certain it will--- you've successfully warped reality to where you convince everyone that they're failing miserably. You do realize you come across like Bart Simpson clutching to his Krusty blanket, right? "The imminent failure of the NHL in Winnipeg is coming.....the imminent failure of the NHL in Winnipeg is coming...the imminent failure of the NHL in Winnipeg is coming..."

 

[blueandgoldguy]

1 spot ahead and 1 million more in profits than the Florida Panthers a team many think should be relocated.

As has been explained to you before, the gap would be much larger as one team went out in the first round while the other went to the Cup Finals resulting in total revenues being much closer. That's gonna happen when one team has an additional 10 or so home games.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

FWIW, I've never advocated for relocating Florida (in fact, I always find it highly amusing whenever they're cited as a "troubled" franchise despite being nowhere near in danger of relocating since their earliest years...I can't recall a single moment I ever thought they were in peril of relocating since they've been in Sunrise).

But comparing the Jets and Panthers based solely on where they are on the Forbes list right now ignores the fact the Jets have never lost money a single year they've been in Winnipeg, which is something you can't say for the Panthers. (It also ignores the whole "but the Jets have had on-ice success" argument that's been used to rationalize that "the Jets attendance numbers are even worse than they look while the Thrashers attendance numbers are even better than they look." Because the Panthers just advanced to the Stanley Cup Finals so by the same logic used in other threads, that organization in a big metro area using American currency should be deeply embarrassed to still be behind the Jets on this list).

Also, if you want to use these Forbes lists as the almighty be-all, end-all (and honestly we really shouldn't), the Thrashers were one spot from the bottom of said list in their final season (and other seasons), a spot the Jets have never come close to occupying. And I know your whole fantasy is somehow pretending the franchise is in as rough of shape or rougher than it was in Atlanta, but I'm sorry that that's not even close to the case (we can argue the causes and reasons for hours and in fact do so on this board frequently but it won't change today's reality).

I mean, let's be real: Atlanta is 99% certain to get another franchise and it's 95% certain to be worth more than the Jets immediately upon entry. And for a good while after that if not forever so long as it's run right. And most of us think this is a good thing (except your Hammer42s of the world which are rarer than you're imagining them to be).

And yet somehow it doesn't seem like you'll be satisfied until the Jets have left Winnipeg or--- until that day arrives because you're oh-so-certain it will--- you've successfully warped reality to where you convince everyone that they're failing miserably. You do realize you come across like Bart Simpson clutching to his Krusty blanket, right? "The imminent failure of the NHL in Winnipeg is coming.....the imminent failure of the NHL in Winnipeg is coming...the imminent failure of the NHL in Winnipeg is coming..."

As has been explained to you before, the gap would be much larger as one team went out in the first round while the other went to the Cup Finals resulting in total revenues being much closer. That's gonna happen when one team has an additional 10 or so home games.

ok

 

[MMC]

Am I wrong for thinking Cincinnati might be more likely if they need another East team than Quebec City? At least with them Bettman said he had received interest from a party in the city (whether that was from a realistic ownership group, no one knows). Seems like more than Quebec has to offer at this point at least

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Am I wrong for thinking Cincinnati might be more likely if they need another East team than Quebec City? At least with them Bettman said he had received interest from a party in the city (whether that was from a realistic ownership group, no one knows). Seems like more than Quebec has to offer at this point at least

Cincinnati has recovered from being a 2 team/league city as Anaheim was one of those that almost burned the bridges after the Ducks vs. Cyclones co-existence.... it's what cost the Cyclones to be almost a historical footnote in hockey franchise history..... it's a wonder that market has thrived under the Cyclones since the AHL Attempt there

 

[GKJ]

Once they have a 33rd team, they're gonna go to 36 sooner rather than later. 33 is a weird number to have, and so is 34 and 35.

It seems like 34 is what the NHL is trying to get to right now. And 36 if they are convinced to do so, but it will happen with 10 years.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Cincy's more likely in the sense that Ohio probably has more billionaires willing to spend a fortune on an NHL team that Quebec City, but I'd still pencil it in as a longshot.

Cincinnati Cyclones is a banging name, though. Would be a-okay with that getting added to the pantheon of NHL team names, albeit needing a logo rework.

 

[GKJ]

Am I wrong for thinking Cincinnati might be more likely if they need another East team than Quebec City? At least with them Bettman said he had received interest from a party in the city (whether that was from a realistic ownership group, no one knows). Seems like more than Quebec has to offer at this point at least

It will depend on what the league thinks it will do to the franchise value in Columbus, and that will go hand-in-hand with whenever they think Nationwide Arena needs to be replaced (25 years old next year). The very idea of it should be incentive for the Blue Jackets to get their act together.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Also, a question to be asked would be if the Jackets have enough soft power in the league to steer a team away from being added to Ohio. I kind of doubt that they do in BoG circles.

But that's putting the cart before the horse. All we know is that someone kicked the tires on the idea of an NHL team in Cincinnati. For all we know, they pulled a Quebecor and lolnoped when they saw the price.

 

[tucker3434]

We don't really need two Ohio teams, do we?

Honestly, I'm not sure that we even need more Eastern teams unless there's a good reason to do it (i.e. not just for the sake of balance). Nashville and Chicago are playing in the west. They aren't western cities. Move one to the Eastern conference if you have to.

 

[KevFu]

It seems like 34 is what the NHL is trying to get to right now. And 36 if they are convinced to do so, but it will happen with 10 years.

I say "Sooner rather than later," but we all knew that expansion to 32 was inevitable, and about to be announced, and it took nine years to get the Kraken on the ice. When I say "it's gonna happen sooner rather than later," I'm still talking like "by 2036."

Also, a question to be asked would be if the Jackets have enough soft power in the league to steer a team away from being added to Ohio. I kind of doubt that they do in BoG circles.

I think you're right that the Jackets lack the soft power to keep a team out of Cincinnati, but if you go down the list of markets in the East than don't have an NHL team, and ask yourself which current NHL owner would oppose:

Orlando, Cleveland, Baltimore, Hartford, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Charlotte, Virginia Beach, Jacksonville, Providence, Hamilton, GTA2. Throw in Milwaukee, too.

And you could see a powerful coalition working together in opposition of ALL of those markets. BOS, NYR, NYI, PHI, WAS, TOR, CHI, TB, CAR, CBJ, BUF and ATL.

 

[GKJ]

It also highlights how dumb it is that they have three teams in New York, not that I would advocate that any one of them move. Each of the three have carved out their spot nicely. But when I hear talk about the league and not being in enough US markets, they currently have 25 US teams, but only in 22 US markets.

 

[SCP Guy]

Honest question.... Would ownership in Quebec be able to pay 1.2 billion USD for a team? That is crazy money.

 

[KevFu]

It also highlights how dumb it is that they have three teams in New York, not that I would advocate that any one of them move. Each of the three have carved out their spot nicely. But when I hear talk about the league and not being in enough US markets, they currently have 25 US teams, but only in 22 US markets.

I don't think that's "dumb," I think it's a massive advantage the NHL has over other leagues.

 

[cbcwpg]

Honest question.... Would ownership in Quebec be able to pay 1.2 billion USD for a team? That is crazy money.

I would be curious just how many of the current owners would pony up $1.2 Billion for an expansion team in their current markets. And how many of the current owners could even afford it.
Maybe all... who knows.

 

[KevFu]

Is the fact that PKP is/was also a politician that prevents the minority investment necessary to drum up the expansion fee?

Like, I see PKP not having the dough to get NHL expansion done (nor Charles Bronfman having the dough to get MLB expansion done in Montreal).

Why wouldn't they be selling minority stakes in the franchise so they only have to come up with 60% of the expansion fee themselves?

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Honest question.... Would ownership in Quebec be able to pay 1.2 billion USD for a team? That is crazy money.

They seemingly stopped being interested in a team at the $500 million mark.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I would be curious just how many of the current owners would pony up $1.2 Billion for an expansion team in their current markets. And how many of the current owners could even afford it.
Maybe all... who knows.

The number of current NHL owners who could not afford to pay $1.2 billion for a team is definitely higher than zero.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

They seemingly stopped being interested in a team at the $500 million mark.

And that's the biggest thing for me. Hard to gin up even pity interest when most of the players stopped bothering to say anything when the price got too rich for them.

But apparently we're supposed to anoint a team in QC because...they have a modern arena?

 

[No Fun Shogun]

It’s not about pity. Quebecois fans wanting a team is completely logical and easy to relate to. But it just looks like the party that could buy a team is either unable or uninterested in paying a premium, and so they won’t be getting a team. Consider Quebec and PKP as analogous to Houston and Alexander in not getting a team.

 

[BMN]

I would be curious just how many of the current owners would pony up $1.2 Billion for an expansion team in their current markets. And how many of the current owners could even afford it.
Maybe all... who knows.

I don't know about the answer to the second question but...

...the Ottawa Senators came just $50 mil US short of being sold for a billion. THE OTTAWA SENATORS. So whether or not current owners would pony up, that tells you there's lots of teams where if their current owner didn't pony up, someone else would....

 

[Tawnos]

I say "Sooner rather than later," but we all knew that expansion to 32 was inevitable, and about to be announced, and it took nine years to get the Kraken on the ice. When I say "it's gonna happen sooner rather than later," I'm still talking like "by 2036."




I think you're right that the Jackets lack the soft power to keep a team out of Cincinnati, but if you go down the list of markets in the East than don't have an NHL team, and ask yourself which current NHL owner would oppose:

Orlando, Cleveland, Baltimore, Hartford, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Charlotte, Virginia Beach, Jacksonville, Providence, Hamilton, GTA2. Throw in Milwaukee, too.

And you could see a powerful coalition working together in opposition of ALL of those markets. BOS, NYR, NYI, PHI, WAS, TOR, CHI, TB, CAR, CBJ, BUF and ATL.

Isn't the territory rule that you can't overlap 50-miles radiuses from city limits? Essentially that city limits have to be 100 miles apart?

Orlando, Baltimore, Hartford, Cincinnati, Providence, Hamilton, and GTA2 all overlap a current territory. Cleveland's territory overlaps Detroit's, but only over water. Not sure if they'd consider that territory overlap.

If you don't have current owners willing to not veto and prospective owners willing to pay indemnity, that leaves Indianapolis, Charlotte, Virginia Beach, and Jacksonville.

 

[Yukon Joe]

And that's the biggest thing for me. Hard to gin up even pity interest when most of the players stopped bothering to say anything when the price got too rich for them.

But apparently we're supposed to anoint a team in QC because...they have a modern arena?

So on the one hand - yes have some pity for Quebec City. They had a moderately successful team for several years. It relocated due to money struggle of the owner, not lack of support. The team then won the Stanley Cup the following year after relocation.

Years later the NHL then, with a wink and a nod, urged Quebec City to build a modern NHL-caliber arena which they did. But no team has moved in. And there's every reason to think a QC franchise would do well financially.


But on the other hand - pity doesn't mean QC is getting a team. And it doesn't look like they are. Money is the only thing that talks.