PWHL - Your level of interest

[Golden_Jet]

Sorry, but there is no comparison between the F1 and PWHL in this context. I don't even know what you mean by 'cross-branding during NHL broadcasts' - do you mean in-house Sportsnet ads/promotion of live F1 events during the commercial breaks of NHL games? Because that isn't quite what the discussion was about in the context of cross-promotion between the NHL and PWHL, not to mention the fact that the NHL itself is promoting the PWHL during NHL events, which it obviously doesn't for F1.

To be clear, I have no problem with women's sports. Seems like maybe you just read my one post and assumed I'm anti-women which isn't the case and quite frankly pretty lazy, offensive, and unnecessary on your part. I was responding to someone who said 'if you don't like women's hockey then just ignore it and don't consume the content like I do with F1', and personally I found that to be a pretty irrelevant and disingenuous comparison. You can choose not to watch F1 events (as in don't turn on that channel while it's live), but there will likely be instances where someone can be consuming NHL content and still be exposed to PWHL content. That's all I meant, but it seems like you took it to mean something far more nefarious.

I’m exposed to stupid gambling as well, but have to live with it.
More F1 promotions, I’m in, but the commercials will do as well.

 

[kylbaz]

I hope it works out but if you're looking for quality hockey its probably cheaper to go and watch your local Midget AAA team.

That's what I don't get. Posts on reddit people are going crazy over it. Saying how good it is. It's really not great hockey, from what I saw it was quite slow. Midget AAA would be atleast twice as fast with more excitement. It's just the reality of it. I will guarantee many those that are pumping it up and saying how great it is will lose interest in a month or two. I fully support the women's hockey league and hope it succeeds for what it is, but the comments from people saying how good it is is quite cringey. I love watching the women's national sports and find it entertaining and get to cheer for the home country. I just don't think seasons of it is the best idea. I'd definitely take my daughter there if we had a team here but I think that's what the market is mainly going to be made up of and hopefully that's enough to keep it going.

 

[Rob Brown]

I mean, what's your opinion on gambling?

I fail to see how this is relevant. But I agree that there are far too many gambling ads.

I’m exposed to stupid gambling as well, but have to live with it.
More F1 promotions, I’m in, but the commercials will do as well.

See above. You didn't really respond to anything I said, though.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

That’s not how fatality rates work. If it were true, there would be no more underwater welders alive.

I think something inside of me knew this was true just because that seems outrageous. My apologies.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I fail to see how this is relevant. But I agree that there are far too many gambling ads.

See above. You didn't really respond to anything I said, though.

You didn’t really say anything, some word salad about F1, and some whining that they’ll discuss a new league.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Sorry, but there is no comparison between the F1 and PWHL in this context. I don't even know what you mean by 'cross-branding during NHL broadcasts' - do you mean in-house Sportsnet ads/promotion of live F1 events during the commercial breaks of NHL games? Because that isn't quite what the discussion was about in the context of cross-promotion between the NHL and PWHL, not to mention the fact that the NHL itself is promoting the PWHL during NHL events, which it obviously doesn't for F1.

To be clear, I have no problem with women's sports. Seems like maybe you just read my one post and assumed I'm anti-women which isn't the case and quite frankly pretty lazy, offensive, and unnecessary on your part. I was responding to someone who said 'if you don't like women's hockey then just ignore it and don't consume the content like I do with F1', and personally I found that to be a pretty irrelevant and disingenuous comparison. You can choose not to watch F1 events (as in don't turn on that channel while it's live), but there will likely be instances where someone can be consuming NHL content and still be exposed to PWHL content. That's all I meant, but it seems like you took it to mean something far more nefarious.

No, what I’m asking is why an F1 promo can go right past you without noticing, but a PHWL promo makes you mad enough that you can’t enjoy the broadcast.

Sports cross-promote constantly, all the time. It’s not a big deal until suddenly it is?

 

[Rob Brown]

You didn’t really say anything, some word salad about F1, and some whining that they’ll discuss a new league.

I responded to someone that responded to something I said days ago. Not my fault if you don't understand the context.

No, what I’m asking is why an F1 promo can go right past you without noticing, but a PHWL promo makes you mad enough that you can’t enjoy the broadcast.

Sports cross-promote constantly, all the time. It’s not a big deal until suddenly it is?

I never said it made me mad. I was just saying that it's easier to ignore F1 because I can quite literally just not turn on a race when it's on TV. It was a back and forth conversation with someone else and it seems like you're cherrypicking what I said and making an assumption.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

False, hitting is allowed. Maybe read up on the rules and a bit of background work, before you jump to all your wrong conclusions.

according to the rulebook released earlier Monday. Body checking is allowed when “there is a clear intention of playing the puck or attempting to gain possession of the puck,” according to the rulebook.


Ya on the same team as Matthew Tkachuk at one time, Brady played a game or 2 with her as well, when he played up an age group, during injuries.

I'm curious what other scenarios would body checking not be allowed? It just seems like an unnecessary addition in quotations because, unless I'm blanking, I can't think of other scenarios other than the two that bodychecking even in the men's game is allowed.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I never said it made me mad. I was just saying that it's easier to ignore F1 because I can quite literally just not turn on a race when it's on TV. It was a back and forth conversation with someone else and it seems like you're cherrypicking what I said and making an assumption.

“One key difference being that if you aren't into F1 or another sport you can just ignore it and not consume any of that content. In the context of the PWHL, Sportsnet, as an example, is likely going to try to make it part of every single NHL broadcast for the rest of the season, so it's a bit harder to simply ignore like you are suggesting.”

What exactly were you suggesting in the paragraph above? That they’re going to start pre-empting NHL games to show PWHL?

If you meant there will be occasional references to the PWHL by the studio crew, how is that different than references to all the other things they talk about? How is it different than actual advertisements plastered on the screen with no other content involved?

It seems that you’re perceiving the PWHL content as intrusive while other content is white noise. Again I would invite you to consider whether that says more about yourself than about the broadcast.

I'm curious what other scenarios would body checking not be allowed? It just seems like an unnecessary addition in quotations because, unless I'm blanking, I can't think of other scenarios other than the two that bodychecking even in the men's game is allowed.

This is just a guess on my part, but a lot of bodychecking in the men’s game is done without any clear intent to gain possession of the puck. e.g., hitting a guy as he dumps the puck away.

 

[Rob Brown]

“One key difference being that if you aren't into F1 or another sport you can just ignore it and not consume any of that content. In the context of the PWHL, Sportsnet, as an example, is likely going to try to make it part of every single NHL broadcast for the rest of the season, so it's a bit harder to simply ignore like you are suggesting.”

What exactly were you suggesting in the paragraph above? That they’re going to start pre-empting NHL games to show PWHL?

If you meant there will be occasional references to the PWHL by the studio crew, how is that different than references to all the other things they talk about? How is it different than actual advertisements plastered on the screen with no other content involved?

It seems that you’re perceiving the PWHL content as intrusive while other content is white noise. Again I would invite you to consider whether that says more about yourself than about the broadcast.

How can you read that and think I'm mad about the league and anti-woman? It's a message board, I was having a discussion, saying that it's harder to ignore while watching the NHL than it is to ignore F1 while watching hockey (i.e. I was saying that the guy was making a terrible argument). You're normally a poster I respect and enjoy your posts but holy moly.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

This is just a guess on my part, but a lot of bodychecking in the men’s game is done without any clear intent to gain possession of the puck. e.g., hitting a guy as he dumps the puck away.

That makes sense, but at the same time even those hits that you gave as an example above serve the purpose of "rushing" the defenseman so he turns the puck over with a bad pass and your team gains possession of the puck because of it. The player throwing the check might not gain possession of the puck, but the intent is to cause a turnover so *someone* on your team can gain possession because of the hit.

If the way its worded is to be taken literally, then is it even "body checking"? It's more like bumping someone off the puck and trying to steal it from them in the exact same moment. For example, you've got the puck and I body you out of the way to steal it from you. But I didn't really line you up for a body check.

How can you read that and think I'm mad about the league and anti-woman? It's a message board, I was having a discussion, saying that it's harder to ignore while watching the NHL than it is to ignore F1 while watching hockey (i.e. I was saying that the guy was making a terrible argument). You're normally a poster I respect and enjoy your posts but holy moly.

Why are you anti-woman?


(Sorry just wanted to take a comment out of context for the fun of it)

 

[Cup or Bust]

I can't see any reason to have any interest in it. There is lots of higher skilled and better hockey out there I can watch.

 

[tarheelhockey]

That makes sense, but at the same time even those hits that you gave as an example above serve the purpose of "rushing" the defenseman so he turns the puck over with a bad pass and your team gains possession of the puck because of it. The player throwing the check might not gain possession of the puck, but the intent is to cause a turnover so *someone* on your team can gain possession because of the hit.

If the way its worded is to be taken literally, then is it even "body checking"? It's more like bumping someone off the puck and trying to steal it from them in the exact same moment. For example, you've got the puck and I body you out of the way to steal it from you. But I didn't really line you up for a body check.

That would be my read on it. Something closer to a traditional style of body checking without making “runs”, not even for the purposes you describe above.

 

[tarheelhockey]

How can you read that and think I'm mad about the league and anti-woman? It's a message board, I was having a discussion, saying that it's harder to ignore while watching the NHL than it is to ignore F1 while watching hockey (i.e. I was saying that the guy was making a terrible argument). You're normally a poster I respect and enjoy your posts but holy moly.

OK, maybe not “mad” but you are saying that you have a stronger negative experience when PHWL talk is interjected into a broadcast than any other sport. To the point that you find it easy to ignore the others, but find PWHL talk distracting. Is that a fair representation?

 

[missionAvs]

Watched some clips of the game against New York and Toronto and the quality of play looks absolutely awful. I have other things to do other than watch terrible hockey.

 

[LokiDog]

No, what I’m asking is why an F1 promo can go right past you without noticing, but a PHWL promo makes you mad enough that you can’t enjoy the broadcast.

Sports cross-promote constantly, all the time. It’s not a big deal until suddenly it is?

I think we’re talking about the difference between running advertisements during NHL games versus the broadcasters discussing and promoting the league, showing highlights during NHL broadcasts and including women in things like the NHL all-star game which has already happened.

I’m not saying that I have an issue with it. But for clarity on the argument taking place, where I thought Rob Brown’s point was fairly clear, there is a difference between an F1 commercial during a hockey game or the broadcast saying “we’ll be here Sunday with the coverage for the race” and local broadcast teams (like my NYR) doing bits like “and the women’s league is up and running, boy Joe, I’ll tell ya, those women are really talented - I had to tune in myself. Wow, some amazing skill on display, here’s highlights from the X vs Y game, blah blah” and then the NHL promoting women taking part in the ASG and such.

There is a difference. Whether it bothers you or not is a different conversation that I don’t want to be a part of, but there’s a difference between an NBA on TNT ad during a hockey game and showing NBA highlights during the broadcast and having Lebron in the hardest shot contest.

And then, of course, there’s the fact that most competitive U17 programs are genuinely better hockey.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think we’re talking about the difference between running advertisements during NHL games versus the broadcasters discussing and promoting the league, showing highlights during NHL broadcasts and including women in things like the NHL all-star game which has already happened.

I’m not saying that I have an issue with it. But for clarity on the argument taking place, where I thought Rob Brown’s point was fairly clear, there is a difference between an F1 commercial during a hockey game or the broadcast saying “we’ll be here Sunday with the coverage for the race” and local broadcast teams (like my NYR) doing bits like “and the women’s league is up and running, boy Joe, I’ll tell ya, those women are really talented - I had to tune in myself. Wow, some amazing skill on display, here’s highlights from the X vs Y game, blah blah” and then the NHL promoting women taking part in the ASG and such.

There is a difference. Whether it bothers you or not is a different conversation that I don’t want to be a part of, but there’s a difference between an NBA on TNT ad during a hockey game and showing NBA highlights during the broadcast and having Lebron in the hardest shot contest.

And then, of course, there’s the fact that most competitive U17 programs are genuinely better hockey.

So to bring the analogy a little closer — how is this different than the routine “boy Joe, I’ll tell ya” segments about junior or college hockey? 90% of the audience has no interest in those games unless they directly involve a prospect for their home team. But nobody complains when they show little vignettes or run highlights of those games, because they’re part of the greater hockey ecosystem, right?

 

[LokiDog]

So to bring the analogy a little closer — how is this different than the routine “boy Joe, I’ll tell ya” segments about junior or college hockey? 90% of the audience has no interest in those games unless they directly involve a prospect for their home team. But nobody complains when they show little vignettes or run highlights of those games, because they’re part of the greater hockey ecosystem, right?

Yes. I think that’s fair, and like I said - I don’t want to get into the whether it bothers you or not portion of the argument, just the what kind of promotion of the league we were discussing. For me, individually, those clips are usually more interesting for two reasons - first the level of play is significantly better in those clips, and more importantly, you’re usually looking at NHL prospects whether from your team or another. I’m far more interested in a Celebrini or Nemec highlight or a Kovalchuk highlight. I get that portion is personal - which is why I said I don’t want to get into whether or not the inclusion bothers you - but I do see at least a degree of differentiation. We aren’t inviting top NCAA or CHL prospects to compete in the NHL all-star game, even though they are head and shoulders closer to NHL caliber than the entirety of the PWHL, but I imagine 99% of hockey fans would rather see the best young and upcoming players than players (of any gender) who would not make an ECHL roster.

 

[guymez]

Havent seen a game.
What would the caliber of the hockey be comparative to mens/boys hockey?

Midget...Junior A/B? Somewhere in between?

Genuinely curious.

 

[Rob Brown]

OK, maybe not “mad” but you are saying that you have a stronger negative experience when PHWL talk is interjected into a broadcast than any other sport. To the point that you find it easy to ignore the others, but find PWHL talk distracting. Is that a fair representation?

There would never be an F1 segment in an NHL broadcast on Sportsnet, which was my point. There is, however, a PWHL segment right now on Sportsnet, which reinforces my point that if someone wanted to avoid the PWHL, they can't just 'avoid that content' like the other guy was suggesting. That was my entire point. I never once said that I had a 'strong negative experience'.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Yes. I think that’s fair, and like I said - I don’t want to get into the whether it bothers you or not portion of the argument, just the what kind of promotion of the league we were discussing. For me, individually, those clips are usually more interesting for two reasons - first the level of play is significantly better in those clips, and more importantly, you’re usually looking at NHL prospects whether from your team or another. I’m far more interested in a Celebrini or Nemec highlight or a Kovalchuk highlight. I get that portion is personal - which is why I said I don’t want to get into whether or not the inclusion bothers you - but I do see at least a degree of differentiation. We aren’t inviting top NCAA or CHL prospects to compete in the NHL all-star game, even though they are head and shoulders closer to NHL caliber than the entirety of the PWHL, but I imagine 99% of hockey fans would rather see the best young and upcoming players than players (of any gender) who would not make an ECHL roster.

I guess my point is, as someone who doesn’t really care about those levels of play, I just wait through the highlights like any other thing I’m not interested in. At worst I’m like “oh looks like Oshawa is having a good season, neato” and that’s that. There’s no disruption of the viewing experience… it’s just a thing I have less interest in.

For that matter, I don’t really care about the Leafs/Ducks game tonight. I don’t know what the score is and have no interest in watching it. But if I’m watching the other game and they talk about Leafs/Ducks at intermission, I’m like “sure I guess” and just wait for them to finish.

So I’m a little bit puzzled as to why it’s suddenly so disruptive when it involves women. It’s just another thing that most people don’t care about, but a few really care about a lot, so they’ll talk about it for 10 seconds and move on. So what?

 

[HockeyVirus]

Women need to fill the stands. It is not up to men to do it. Now, I have a daughter and will be supportive of the leagues success and if there was a local team would take her. But I won't make any attempt to follow the league.

And a part of that as well is.. what is the point? League seems to disband as fast as they come.

 

[LokiDog]

I guess my point is, as someone who doesn’t really care about those levels of play, I just wait through the highlights like any other thing I’m not interested in. At worst I’m like “oh looks like Oshawa is having a good season, neato” and that’s that. There’s no disruption of the viewing experience… it’s just a thing I have less interest in.

For that matter, I don’t really care about the Leafs/Ducks game tonight. I don’t know what the score is and have no interest in watching it. But if I’m watching the other game and they talk about Leafs/Ducks at intermission, I’m like “sure I guess” and just wait for them to finish.

So I’m a little bit puzzled as to why it’s suddenly so disruptive when it involves women. It’s just another thing that most people don’t care about, but a few really care about a lot, so they’ll talk about it for 10 seconds and move on. So what?

The so what is up to the individual. As I said, whether it bothers you or not is personal and I’m not weighing in on it. However, the only time you’ll see a highlight from a league that doesn’t feed into the NHL in some capacity on an NHL broadcast is if it’s something novel like a goalie goal or a Michigan. There is a degree of separation with a league that has no crossover whatsoever with the NHL. I don’t think acknowledging that is necessarily wrong. Now if you’re heavily bothered by it… I don’t know what to tell you… I’m on your side with regards to so what, move on. But it is moderately “forced” for lack of a better word because the PWHL doesn’t and has no chance of feeding into the NHL, and the quality of play is inferior to many, many levels of men’s hockey that do, and won’t get nearly as much of a spotlight.

Now, for me, it’s fine. Whatever. You want to be a good sport and shine a spotlight on the women’s league to try and help it gain support? Doesn’t specifically bother me. But it is the equivalent of showing my high school team on an NHL broadcast just because you want to do the kids on it a favor, and not because it’s actually good hockey or because any of the kids featured are NHL prospects.

 

[majormajor]

I haven't seen the new league yet. I watch more hockey than I should so I probably won't tune in to women's hockey any time soon.

I watched some top tier women's games years ago and it was fast paced and exciting, unfortunately the broadcast was messed up. I think if women's hockey really had their best players out there and with a high quality broadcast it might build a following.

I tune in to hockey depending on the quality of the product. I don't really have interest in watching what essentially is equivalent to local bantam hockey.

Is the new league that bad?

[mod]

The best women players pass the puck so quickly and precisely that bantams are never going to get to the puck.

 

[Stealth1616]

Havent seen a game.
What would the caliber of the hockey be comparative to mens/boys hockey?

Midget...Junior A/B? Somewhere in between?

Genuinely curious.

Probably right around Midget AA level