Post-Game Talk: PS #6 - 09/27/18 | RANGERS @ flyers | 7:00 - MSG, NHLN

[Levitate]

You know man, you’ve got a lot of potential and a lot to offer this board, but you really don’t do yourselves any favors.

Some days it’s like your hellbent on saying things in the most condescending or abrasive way possible. In the process, you lose the chance to present your ideas in a way that makes people stop and think.

You gotta drop the Sean Avery approach, because it’s getting really old quick around here.

I don't think he actually cares about making people stop and think. I dont' even think he's totally wrong on a lot of stuff but it's all behind the faux internet outrage schtick

 

[Machinehead]

You know man, you’ve got a lot of potential and a lot to offer this board, but you really don’t do yourselves any favors.

Some days it’s like your hellbent on saying things in the most condescending or abrasive way possible. In the process, you lose the chance to present your ideas in a way that makes people stop and think.

You gotta drop the Sean Avery approach, because it’s getting really old quick around here.

There is no way to present my ideas in a palatable way, because my ideas are against the Gorton kool-aid.

 

[Edge]

Patiently waiting until they do stupid **** on Thursday because they always do stupid ****.

And you just absolutely bathe in the misery don’t you?

Every chance, you want to just dwell on it and share your discontent with nearly every sentence you type.

And you get (obviously) frustrated as you find yourself more and isolated, as more and more people finally reach the point of pushing back on your relentless and incessesant complaining and whining.

 

[Edge]

There is no way to present my ideas in a palatable way, because my ideas are against the Gorton kool-aid.

Do you not see how many people manage to disagree on a topic and still keep it productive?

There’s plenty of disagreement and discussion around here. It’s just not usually tone deaf.

 

[Machinehead]

And you just absolutely bathe in the misery don’t you?

Every chance, you want to just dwell on it and share your discontent with nearly every sentence you type.

And you get (obviously) frustrated as you find yourself more and isolated, as more and more people finally reach the point of pushing back on your relentless and incessesant complaining and whining.

Then let's try to settle this in a level-headed manner.

Explain to me why the lineup on Thursday will be different from the practice lines.

Why would this team play a talented but enigmatic young player over a tough veteran when they haven't done that in my lifetime?

Why are we convinced the ideas are so different now? Sather is still President of the New York Rangers. Dolan doesn't care outside of making his money, so Sather -in practice- owns the Rangers. His handpicked AGM is GM of the team. Why are they suddenly going to get away from the toughness over skill mentality? Why do I have to wait until Thursday to find out they're going to be doing the same things they've been doing for 18 years?

If somebody can just explain to me where things have changed so much, maybe I would be less frustrated with the direction of the team.

 

[Edge]

Then let's try to settle this in a level-headed manner.

Explain to me why the lineup on Thursday will be different from the practice lines.

Why would this team play a talented but enigmatic young player over a tough veteran when they haven't done that in my lifetime?

Why are we convinced the ideas are so different now? Sather is still President of the New York Rangers. Dolan doesn't care outside of making his money, so Sather -in practice- owns the Rangers. His handpicked AGM is GM of the team. Why are they suddenly going to get away from toughness over skill mentality? Why do I have to wait until Thursday to find out they're going to be doing the same things they've been doing for 18 years.

If somebody can just explain to me where things have changed so much, maybe I would be less frustrated with the direction of the team.

To answer to your question, I honestly don’t know how they will approach the McQ and ADA ice time. Neither do you.

Just like I also don’t know how long either one will be in the lineup, regardless of who is there on Oct. 4th.

But perhaps the bigger question is why a coach who is carrying (for all intents and purposes) 4 rookies on his roster would pick ADA to be the young player he is going to ignore?

 

[Levitate]

Then let's try to settle this in a level-headed manner.

Explain to me why the lineup on Thursday will be different from the practice lines.

I think this kind of question is something that's really only being argued in a hypothetical sense. They might be looking at some pairs they wanted to try, and maybe those pairs suck in practice so they try something else. If tomorrow in practice they're doing something different, do we assume that's just BS and they'll fall back on these pairs come opening night?

Also, would be interested to see the icetime various pairs had together during the preseason to see if there are clues in that with regards to what the coaches might be thinking.

Why would this team play a talented but enigmatic young player over a tough veteran when they haven't done that in my lifetime?

They do it from time to time. AV even played DeAngelo higher in the lineup and tougher matchups at the start of last season (though I think he was setting DeAngelo up to fail). It's also a different coaching staff, so who knows what they'll ultimately want to go with.

Why are we convinced the ideas are so different now? Sather is still President of the New York Rangers. Dolan doesn't care outside of making his money, so Sather -in practice- owns the Rangers. His handpicked AGM is GM of the team. Why are they suddenly going to get away from the toughness over skill mentality? Why do I have to wait until Thursday to find out they're going to be doing the same things they've been doing for 18 years?

If somebody can just explain to me where things have changed so much, maybe I would be less frustrated with the direction of the team.

I don't think they've gone toughness over skill all the time as you insinuate. Most of the "tough" guys have been 4th liners and such, not guys expected to contribute to scoring roles. I think the McIlrath pick sticks out as a sore thumb for that mentality but I think the thought that they always go grit over skill isn't accurate"

All said...I totally get being skeptical. I'm not really sure how all this will work out...it's gonna really depend on how these recent draft picks turn out and while I generally like their high picks, can't really be sure it'll all be roses.

I too am not a fan of the McLeod's and McQuaid's to some extent but I don't think this franchise is going full Hurricanes or Vancouver or something.

I certainly wish they'd magically find a really tough player who has legit skills though so they can stop always trying to fill that role with plugs

 

[Kovalev27]

I’m less worried about mcleod playing over a kid than I am McQuaid playing over DeAngelo. That kid should have a spot in the top 6 and have to literally prove he can’t handle it to come out. We are as we say rebuilding.

Are we playing vets to protect some kids over others? Probably. And there are favorites for sure. DeAngelo doesn’t seem like one of them.

But if Mcleod is coming in to take ice from Vesey or even Lettieri at times I’m not going to lose sleep. If he’s taking games from Howden or Chytil that’s another story.

 

[Machinehead]

You’re just coming off your tirade about Ryan McD. And before that it was going with a “tank” approach to the rebuild.

So in a span of two days, you’ve simultaneously argued that nothing changes in 18 years, while also being pissed about something that’s certainly never been done in 18 years.

At this point, it’s like you can’t even keep track of what you’re supposedly bent out of shape about.

To answer to your question, I honestly don’t know how they will approach the McQ and ADA ice time. Neither do you.

Just like I also don’t know how long either one will be in the lineup, regardless of who is there on Oct. 4th.

But perhaps the bigger question is why a coach who is carrying (for all intents and purposes) 4 rookies on his roster would pick ADA to be the young player he is going to ignore?

While it's true a full rebuild has never been done, it's being done with the same failed philosophies. Everything Gorton has said indicates it will be all about toughness and everything he did at the draft indicates it will still be "our guy" over the consensus pick. Whether you agree with it or not, it's the same.

With that in mind, sure, none of us know, but I'm going to go with the same things they've done forever because I don't see where it's different.

As for Quinn, I don't really have a feel for who he is yet. I liked his in-game usage in preaseason, but it's impossible to get an idea of what his starting lineups will be with the flux of preseason. That's why I haven't judged Quinn yet.

I will absolutely judge this front office. They've given me a million reasons to do so for nearly two decades.

 

[Edge]

I’m less worried about mcleod playing over a kid than I am McQuaid playing over DeAngelo. That kid should have a spot in the top 6 and have to literally prove he can’t handle it to come out. We are as we say rebuilding.

Are we playing vets to protect some kids over others? Probably. And there are favorites for sure. DeAngelo doesn’t seem like one of them.

But if Mcleod is coming in to take ice from Vesey or even Lettieri at times I’m not going to lose sleep. If he’s taking games from Howden or Chytil that’s another story.

Personally, I think ADA should be in there. That would be my choice.

But I’m not totally sure McQ is the bigger block for ADA, so much Pionk and to a lesser extent Shattenkirk.

 

[Machinehead]

Not sure what Pionk did to earn a spot over DeAngelo, either.

But as had been said many times, Pionk has all the stink of a guy the organization is going to play favorites with.

 

[Levitate]

While it's true a full rebuild has never been done, it's being done with the same failed philosophies. Everything Gorton has said indicates it will be all about toughness and everything he did at the draft indicates it will still be "our guy" over the consensus pick. Whether you agree with it or not, it's the same.

See these comments are what annoy people. It's opinions, not fact like you are presenting it as

As for Quinn, I don't really have a feel for who he is yet. I liked his in-game usage in preaseason, but it's impossible to get an idea of what his starting lineups will be with the flux of preseason. That's why I haven't judged Quinn yet.

I will absolutely judge this front office. They've given me a million reasons to do so for nearly two decades.

So are you of the opinion that the front office is dictating lineup decisions? Curious because when you say you don't have a feeling on the coach but hate the front office but are upset about lineup decisions it seems to point to you feeling there's interference in the coaches decisions?

 

[Levitate]

Not sure what Pionk did to earn a spot over DeAngelo, either.

But as had been said many times, Pionk has all the stink of a guy the organization is going to play favorites with.

Actually agree with this. I like Pionk but it annoys me that the team so far seems to think that he's better than he is. Guy could be a solid player, he could contribute in positive ways, but he's not there and the team shouldn't treat him like he is

 

[Edge]

While it's true a full rebuild has never been done, it's being done with the same failed philosophies. Everything Gorton has said indicates it will be all about toughness and everything he did at the draft indicates it will still be "our guy" over the consensus pick. Whether you agree with it or not, it's the same.

With that in mind, sure, none of us know, but I'm going to go with the same things they've done forever because I don't see where it's different.

As for Quinn, I don't really have a feel for who he is yet. I liked his in-game usage in preaseason, but it's impossible to get an idea of what his starting lineups will be with the flux of preseason. That's why I haven't judged Quinn yet.

I will absolutely judge this front office. They've given me a million reasons to do so for nearly two decades.

You cite toughness and yet we’ve drafted Andersson, Chytil, Kraftsov, Miller and Lundkvist with firsts in the last two years.

And what exactly is wrong with those picks? Have they busted in your eyes?

Our defense consists of Skjei, Pionk, Shattenkirk.

Our vets include Zibanejad, Hayes, Zucc, Fast, and a bunch of other players who would not be described using the word tough.

You claim nothing has changed in 18 years and yet how could even remotely compared the 2018 team to the 2003 team?

See, THAT is where the disconnect is. It’s one thing to disagree and have reservations, but the evidence you’re using to support those conclusions doesn’t really fit.

 

[Edge]

See these comments are what annoy people. It's opinions, not fact like you are presenting it as

I think it’s that tone component we keep talking about. It’s like a kid who always throws in that last comment and wonders why he’s in trouble.

 

[Machinehead]

You cite toughness and yet we’ve drafted Andersson, Chytil, Kraftsov, Miller and Lundkvist with firsts in the last two years.

And what exactly is wrong with those picks? Have they busted in your eyes?

Our defense consists of Skjei, Pionk, Shattenkirk.

Our vets include Zibanejad, Hayes, Zucc, Fast, and a bunch of other players who would not be described using the word tough.

You claim nothing has changed in 18 years and yet how could even remotely compared the 2018 team to the 2003 team?

See, THAT is where the disconnect is. It’s one thing to disagree and have reservations, but the evidence you’re using to support those conclusions doesn’t really fit.

Where did I say everyone in the lineup is a fighter? Sorry if my post led you to believe that.

My point is, instead of acquiring tough players who can play, or just forgetting about it, they're going to use bad players to fill a token tough guy role. That's been a Rangers trope since I'm a little kid and I firmly believe it will continue and take ice time from better options.

Just about every pick you named there was not the consensus pick. The Rangers take their guy that they identified before the draft and throw out who's available. Sometimes it hits and sometimes it doesn't, but in my opinion, it's hurt more than it's helped.

There's a ton of evidence to suggest those habits will continue.

 

[chosen]

I think it’s that tone component we keep talking about. It’s like a kid who always throws in that last comment and wonders why he’s in trouble.

Just like players and coaches are trying to get into mid-season form as soon as possible, some posters are doing likewise.

 

[Crease]

You guys are so naive about this team.

HF is supposed to be fun. This is not fun.

 

[Machinehead]

HF is supposed to be fun. This is not fun.

When can I be upset?

Give me a date and I promise I won't post anything negative until that date.

 

[Edge]

Where did I say everyone in the lineup is a fighter? Sorry if my post led you to believe that.

My point is, instead of acquiring tough players who can play, or just forgetting about it, they're going to use bad players to fill a token tough guy role. That's been a Rangers trope since I'm a little kid and I firmly believe it will continue and take ice time from better options.

Just about every pick you named there was not the consensus pick. The Rangers take their guy that they identified before the draft and throw out who's available. Sometimes it hits and sometimes it doesn't, but in my opinion, it's hurt more than it's helped.

There's a ton of evidence to suggest those habits will continue.

I think you’re underestimating the cost of going out and acquiring a player who is “tough and skilled”, while also overstating the roles of both McQ and McLeod compared to the rest of the lineup.

As for the picks, what exactly does it matter if they were the consensus picks? Who do you want instead of Andersson, Chytil and Kraftsov? Which is to say nothing about debating the accuracy of how far out of the consensus they actually were.

 

[Edge]

When can I be upset?

Give me a date and I promise I won't post anything negative until that date.

Notice he wasn’t commenting on you being upset, he was commenting on your swipe at those who don’t agree with you.

[Nods slowly]

Holla if you hear me.

 

[Machinehead]

Notice he wasn’t commenting on you being upset, he was commenting on your swipe at those who don’t agree with you.

[Nods slowly]

Holla if you hear me.

I do think you guys are naive. Sorry.

I said 3 weeks ago it would be McQuaid over ADA. Now when that's exactly what we get in practice, I have to wait for Thursday.

When it happens Thursday, what's the next thing I'm waiting for?

 

[Edge]

I do think you guys are naive. Sorry.

And there you go again.

Did it ever occur to you that you might be your own worst enemey on some of this? Or are you just the smartest guy in the room and above all that?

 

[Machinehead]

And there you go again.

Did it ever occur to you that you might be your own worst enemey on some of this? Or are you just the smartest guy in the room and above all that?

I'm being as nice as I can the past few posts, but I still can't get a straight answer.

When am I allowed to be upset with the team?

 

[Crease]

I'm being as nice as I can the past few posts, but I still can't get a straight answer.

When am I allowed to be upset with the team?

You can be as upset as you want. But then I'm not inviting you to my birthday party.