Proposal: Proposals Thread: Fix this broken club

[Soundwave]

So what about the other teams that passed on him? Canucks and Sabres both took a pass. I think you're nitpicking a bit here. We needed a defenseman and we took one. And if they don't take Ekblad this year if they have the chance then they really are dumb.

I think the major problem for this team is lack of desire. They just don't care and it shows on the ice. MacT could add Prime Pronger and Weber and the players would still float. Hell he added a goalie that's stopping almost everything and the players still can't get up for him.

There's something extremely rotten with this team and I don't think it's just Eakins. Never mind that we picked the absolute worst years to tank.

Canucks IMO made a mistake there. But Gillis has been making a lot of them lately. Apparently going to the Stanley Cup Finals and losing in game 7 makes you an idiot afterwards, that would explain a lot here.

It's hard to have desire for anything when you're basically out of the playoffs by October because your GM opted to go with the worst goaltending duo in the league and hired a coach who's trying to teach some high concept defensive system that's a complete trainwreck.

Desire is great and all, but it's only one aspect of hockey. If you have the worst defense in the league, and the worst goaltending, and possibly the worst coaching in the NHL ... that's pretty potent 1-2-3 punch of suck.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Canucks IMO made a mistake there. But Gillis has been making a lot of them lately. Apparently going to the Stanley Cup Finals and losing in game 7 makes you an idiot afterwards, that would explain a lot here.

It's hard to have desire for anything when you're basically out of the playoffs by October because your GM opted to go with the worst goaltending duo in the league and hired a coach who's trying to teach some high concept defensive system that's a complete trainwreck.

Desire is great and all, but it's only one aspect of hockey. If you have the worst defense in the league, and the worst goaltending, and possibly the worst coaching in the NHL ... that's pretty potent 1-2-3 punch of suck.

They didn't have any desire last year when the playoffs were within sight. They completely shut down for the season. You look at the Sabres and Flames, teams whose seasons have been over for months and they still work hard. I don't care how crappy the defense or goaltending is, lazy work isn't going to make it any better.

Tambo gave a vote to confidence to the players last year and it backfired horribly. The players simply can't be trusted with anything. You can't expect to be handed anything in this league. You have to make your own luck like the Kings did last night.

Instead of maybe sneaking into the playoffs last year or at least getting a respectable finish, we got to see a 10 game stretch where they scored more than one goal just twice and 6 straight home losses. Granted some of the teams they played were good (Anaheim, Chicago) but just as many of those were perfectly winnable (Minnesota, Phoenix, Calgary). It wasn't until their hopes were completely dashed that they came alive again.

I wonder if scouts around the league look at our players and decrease their value because of their inability to understand simple hockey or to play hard. I mean, how many years of drop passes are we going to see? Hockey's a complex game but it gets even more complex if you make it that way.

4 years in and Hall and Eberle still don't know what a forecheck is despite it being shown to them many times by their conference rivals.

 

[Soundwave]

They didn't have any desire last year when the playoffs were within sight. They completely shut down for the season. You look at the Sabres and Flames, teams whose seasons have been over for months and they still work hard. I don't care how crappy the defense or goaltending is, lazy work isn't going to make it any better.

Tambo gave a vote to confidence to the players last year and it backfired horribly. The players simply can't be trusted with anything. You can't expect to be handed anything in this league. You have to make your own luck like the Kings did last night.

Instead of maybe sneaking into the playoffs last year or at least getting a respectable finish, we got to see a 10 game stretch where they scored more than one goal just twice and 6 straight home losses. Granted some of the teams they played were good (Anaheim, Chicago) but just as many of those were perfectly winnable (Minnesota, Phoenix, Calgary). It wasn't until their hopes were completely dashed that they came alive again.

I wonder if scouts around the league look at our players and decrease their value because of their inability to understand simple hockey or to play hard. I mean, how many years of drop passes are we going to see? Hockey's a complex game but it gets even more complex if you make it that way.

4 years in and Hall and Eberle still don't know what a forecheck is despite it being shown to them many times by their conference rivals.

The funny thing about this is all these kids' attitude was vetted heavily before they were drafted.

Hall was a natural born winner, 2-time Memorial Cup MVP right?

RNH was so highly touted that I believe Tallon told RNH to not even wait for them to call his name if the Oilers passed.

Eberle was Mr. Canada, super clutch, the miracle Oilers low 1st round pick that finally paid off.

Yakupov was touted by the Sarnia Sting GM as working even harder than Stamkos.

What a strange coincidence that they all these flaws in their game show up in Edmonton.

All the back checking in the world isn't going to stop that group of d-men and goalies from getting scored on either, not that any of those players were drafted as two way forwards.

That team last year was never a real playoff threat, they just one of their usual hot stretches which happens every year, it was just overblown because it was a condensed year last year, creating a mirage that the Oilers were close to the playoffs.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

The funny thing about this is all these kids' attitude was vetted heavily before they were drafted.

Hall was a natural born winner, 2-time Memorial Cup MVP right?

RNH was so highly touted that I believe Tallon told RNH to not even wait for them to call his name if the Oilers passed.

Eberle was Mr. Canada, super clutch, the miracle Oilers low 1st round pick that finally paid off.

Yakupov was touted by the Sarnia Sting GM as working even harder than Stamkos.

What a strange coincidence that they all these flaws in their game show up in Edmonton.

All the back checking in the world isn't going to stop that group of d-men and goalies from getting scored on either, not that any of those players were drafted as two way forwards.

That team last year was never a real playoff threat, they just one of their usual hot stretches which happens every year, it was just overblown because it was a condensed year last year, creating a mirage that the Oilers were close to the playoffs.

I agree with most of what you're saying, especially the last part...

But look back at the 2004 Flames. Yes they had an absolutely fantastic goalie but can you even name anyone on that blueline besides Regehr? Kipper was great but the blue collar shot blocking helped a lot too.

Even in 2006, Horcoff put his face in front of a puck. Can you picture any of the kids doing the same?

Even in the face of horrific defense and goaltending, the kids need to make hard work a habit. The Flames have one good defenseman and two goalies with very, VERY minimal NHL experience. That doesn't stop them from outworking a lot of teams.

I don't expect the Oilers to win every night. Or even most nights, they're still a long ways away from even being in the race for the playoffs... But it really pains me to see them quit when I know they can outwork teams. Things will improve if they work hard.

If they go to the net, take the body, and grind teams down they'll start seeing a change.

 

[Wheathead]

The Oiler's biggest problem, to quote a mid 2000s country song, is that their "give a damn's" busted.

Effort isn't there. They've been spotty in the effort department all year. Save for the recent goaltending efforts.

You can blame all the coaches all you want, but the the truth is that this team has absolutely no heart. No kick back. Nothin'. Score one and this team is done.

Another one of the Oilers problems is that either NHL experienced coaches/GMs don't want to work under Kevin Lowe in Edmonton, or that Kevin Lowe doesn't want experienced people to tell him where to stick it if he wants to stick his hand in the cookie jar.

Rookie GM x2 (Tambo, MacT), rookie head coach x2 (Kreuger, Eakins), plus young guys will not equal success.

When this team needed experienced, they hired rookies.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

too lazy to start a new thread...but what about Joensuu at centre....he has ok hands...maybe for faceoffs?....cant shoot somehow so put him at centre.......maybe because he has terrible hands...discuss.

 

[Paralyzer008]

I wonder if we could buy low on Burrows for the 3rd line, get the Canucks to retain some salary.

Perfect 3rd line RW, a lot of his terrible stats this year are just plain bad luck, he's a great buy low. Could play him with Gordon, he'd add to our annoying levels, and him and Perron are similar personalities.

 

[Aceboogie]

Canucks and Oilers are great trading partners.

Canucks are looking to dump vets for prospects and picks, Oilers are looking to give up prospects for NHL players. They need to start making deals. Its risk on both sides

I would love to try and get a combo Burrows, Kesler, Edler (or all 3)

Burrows, Kesler, Edler,2014 1st (7th)

for

Klefbom, Eberle and our 1st (2nd OA)

Oilers get a solid top 4 D, perfect 2c, dood depth player, draft Driastal/Dal Colle/Ritchie. Boom, top six has size

Canucks get a promising D prospect, young scorer, and Reinhart

Or switch Klefbom for Gernat and drop their 1st round pick

 

[cyril*]

Canucks and Oilers are great trading partners.

Canucks are looking to dump vets for prospects and picks, Oilers are looking to give up prospects for NHL players. They need to start making deals. Its risk on both sides

I would love to try and get a combo Burrows, Kesler, Edler (or all 3)

All 3 have no trade clauses.

Also, if they're stupid enough to waive them to come to Edmonton then I'm not sure I would want them on the team.

 

[Oil In My Veins]

The only two guys on the Canucks that don't have NTC's that I'd want on the Oilers are Matthias and Tanev, but I don't see the Canucks sending them to us for a reasonable cost.

The other guy I'd want is Bieksa but he ain't going anywhere.

 

[McDoused]

The Oiler's biggest problem, to quote a mid 2000s country song, is that their "give a damn's" busted.

Effort isn't there. They've been spotty in the effort department all year. Save for the recent goaltending efforts.

You can blame all the coaches all you want, but the the truth is that this team has absolutely no heart. No kick back. Nothin'. Score one and this team is done.

Another one of the Oilers problems is that either NHL experienced coaches/GMs don't want to work under Kevin Lowe in Edmonton, or that Kevin Lowe doesn't want experienced people to tell him where to stick it if he wants to stick his hand in the cookie jar.

Rookie GM x2 (Tambo, MacT), rookie head coach x2 (Kreuger, Eakins), plus young guys will not equal success.

When this team needed experienced, they hired rookies.

I'm not making excuses but I think this is a common misconception by the fans and media. It's hard to give a damn when you are out of the playoffs by November. Also, their have been a bunch of times when the team does try and they just simply aren't big enough to push back. Packing it in is typical of this team but really it doesn't mean a whole lot for next year.

 

[Raab]

If you ask me, it's pretty much split down the middle as far as top D shooting left or right, but most of the D in the league are left handed, with some teams having ZERO right handed D at all.

Not one team has more RHD than LHD and only three have an equal amount.

This is how many right handed shot D there are per team.

ANA - 3/9
BOS - 5/11
BUF - 5/10
CAL - 0/10
CAR - 4/8
CHI - 4/8
COL - 4/10
CLB - 4/10
DAL - 0/10
DET - 1/10
EDM - 4/10
FLA - 4/10
LAK - 3/7
MIN - 4/9
MON - 2/9
NAS - 3/8
NJD - 3/9
NYI - 3/9
NYR - 4/9
OTT - 4/9
PHX - 4/9
PHI - 1/8
PIT - 4/11
SJS - 3/7
STL - 3/8
TBL - 4/11
TOR - 1/7
VAN - 4/10
WAS - 6/13
WIN - 5/12

Right handed D are harder to come by, therefor making them a higher cost to get. Supply meet demand.

Yea but look at the quality of RHD, and add who has extra top pairing d men to trade and you see why RHD shouldn't cost a lot more. Guys that could be available are Buff, Myers, Letang(If they resign Niskanen), Subban, Shattenkirk, Jones, Green, still say theres more quality RHD then LHD. As an example I'll use the Oilers their RHD are Petry, Schultz, Larsen, Potter. But the Oilers defence roster is thrown off because their LHD are Marincin, Ference, Fraser, Smid, Klefbom, Grebeshkov. You tell me which side they're stronger on right now and which side has more quality defenders? And I'm betting if you look around the league you'll find alot of similar situations where the bottom pairing dmen are LH shots, but the top pairing guys a RHD.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

All 3 have no trade clauses.

Also, if they're stupid enough to waive them to come to Edmonton then I'm not sure I would want them on the team.

All 3 would improve this current roster...of course depending on the "cost" to acquire.

 

[doubledown99]

Stauffer on his show a few weeks back said that neither Edler or Kessler would waive to come to EDM. He said Kessler would be perfect here but it's not happening.

Discussing them as options for EDM is useless. Ehrhoff is another pipedream as reports indicated that he would only waive for 1 team in the Western Conference. I highly doubt EDM would be that team.

 

[Up the Irons]

The Oiler's biggest problem, to quote a mid 2000s country song, is that their "give a damn's" busted.

Effort isn't there. They've been spotty in the effort department all year. Save for the recent goaltending efforts.

You can blame all the coaches all you want, but the the truth is that this team has absolutely no heart. No kick back. Nothin'. Score one and this team is done.

Another one of the Oilers problems is that either NHL experienced coaches/GMs don't want to work under Kevin Lowe in Edmonton, or that Kevin Lowe doesn't want experienced people to tell him where to stick it if he wants to stick his hand in the cookie jar.

Rookie GM x2 (Tambo, MacT), rookie head coach x2 (Kreuger, Eakins), plus young guys will not equal success.

When this team needed experienced, they hired rookies.

That's it right there bro. KLowe either can't attract experience or he doesn't want it. The Eakins hire is on MacT, but his inexperience is what brought on the knee jerk decision.

kLowe really is the root of the problem.

 

[Oil In My Veins]

Yea but look at the quality of RHD, and add who has extra top pairing d men to trade and you see why RHD shouldn't cost a lot more. Guys that could be available are Buff, Myers, Letang(If they resign Niskanen), Subban, Shattenkirk, Jones, Green, still say theres more quality RHD then LHD. As an example I'll use the Oilers their RHD are Petry, Schultz, Larsen, Potter. But the Oilers defence roster is thrown off because their LHD are Marincin, Ference, Fraser, Smid, Klefbom, Grebeshkov. You tell me which side they're stronger on right now and which side has more quality defenders? And I'm betting if you look around the league you'll find alot of similar situations where the bottom pairing dmen are LH shots, but the top pairing guys a RHD.

I did look, and it depends on the team. Some teams have quality RHD, and some have none.

Either way, there's definitely more of a demand for RHD than left, there's no way around it.

 

[Raab]

I did look, and it depends on the team. Some teams have quality RHD, and some have none.

Either way, there's definitely more of a demand for RHD than left, there's no way around it.

My argument is that most of the teams that have a surplus of dmen who may be available in trade have RHD. The only teams that would be looking to move top 4 LHD IMO are Phoenix, and Toronto. Could see Chicago potentially moving Leddy as well.

Edit: I think it would be very prudent of MacT to pick up an upgrade on RHD in someone like Myers, Bogosian, Shattenkirk, Green, Carlson, Buff, etc.... Then move Petry for a LHD of the same quality, maybe someone like Gunnarsson out of TO.

 

[ponokanocker]

At this point, I really don't know what the fix for this mess is. Is this team really this bad that without a goalie putting a Vezina performance we are probably losing by 10/game? I think it's more the case of majority of the players going through the motions.

The problem is that I don't think we really know what we have or where to even begin to fix it because of it. Hemsky tearing it up on a team chasing the playoffs is a clear example of that in my mind. How difficult can it be to get motivated for games when you know you aren't winning anything 20 games into a season?

 

[Mcnofool6110]

At this point, I really don't know what the fix for this mess is. Is this team really this bad that without a goalie putting a Vezina performance we are probably losing by 10/game? I think it's more the case of majority of the players going through the motions.

The problem is that I don't think we really know what we have or where to even begin to fix it because of it. Hemsky tearing it up on a team chasing the playoffs is a clear example of that in my mind. How difficult can it be to get motivated for games when you know you aren't winning anything 20 games into a season?

Good goaltending will do a lot for us. But even god mode Khabi didn't do much for us.

We need experienced D-men like Ference, yet we need reliable D-men, which Ference hasn't been. We need the kids to be leaders, which we haven't truly facilitated, and we need to surround the kids with true grit, which we are only starting to do.

I wonder what you could get for Ference. ....

 

[Oil In My Veins]

My argument is that most of the teams that have a surplus of dmen who may be available in trade have RHD. The only teams that would be looking to move top 4 LHD IMO are Phoenix, and Toronto. Could see Chicago potentially moving Leddy as well.

Edit: I think it would be very prudent of MacT to pick up an upgrade on RHD in someone like Myers, Bogosian, Shattenkirk, Green, Carlson, Buff, etc.... Then move Petry for a LHD of the same quality, maybe someone like Gunnarsson out of TO.

I get what you're saying, I guess I just look at it as most teams aren't in any hurry to move RHD regardless of how good they are unless they get one back or you overpay because they are in short supply. Most teams have LHD playing on the right side because of this.

For the teams that have a 'surplus' in D, it isn't on the right side, it's on the left.

 

[Raab]

I get what you're saying, I guess I just look at it as most teams aren't in any hurry to move RHD regardless of how good they are unless they get one back or you overpay because they are in short supply. Most teams have LHD playing on the right side because of this.

For the teams that have a 'surplus' in D, it isn't on the right side, it's on the left.

Yea, but that surplus isn't necessarily quality. I could see a team like Buffalo moving Myers because they have two great RHD coming up in Pysyk and Ristolainen. Could see Winnipeg moving one of Buff, Bogosian, or Trouba because all 3 could play top pairing. Could see Washington moving Green with the emergence of Carlson. PK Subban may be on the move because of a contract dispute. St. Louis may move Shattenkirk with Roman Polak there. The only teams that may be looking to move quality top 2 dmen under 30 are perhaps Phoenix with Yandle and maybe Philidelphia with Coburn although they have a lot of guys coming off the books. I don't see any other top pairing LHD that could potentially be available. Now in saying that if your looking for a middle pairing guy similar to Petry, like say Gunnarrsson, Leddy, Cowen, Staal, Orlov, Kulikov, etc.... Theres way more of those guys available in LHD. Still say it'd be easier to get a top pairing RHD then a LHD though.

 

[Soundwave]

"Effort" honestly is largely a byproduct of belief + experiencing success.

Players won't give you the same effort if they don't believe in the system that they're playing in and don't have any experience of having success with the said system. Contrary to popular belief most NHL players IMO aren't lazy and are willing to work reasonably hard to have success.

Case in point -- yes Shawn Horcoff was willing to block a shot with his face in the 2006 playoffs ... but that team was buoyed by Pronger and Roloson and everyone bought in because they started to taste some success. How many times did Horcoff display that level of effort in the years after that run? Was he still doing the same thing when the Oilers were the worst team in the league 4-5 years later? Nope.

That doesn't even make him a bad person or someone who wasn't trying.

It's just human nature ... when you have a system where you anticipate having success, you just try even harder because you know you will be rewarded with positive results. In other words experiencing success eliminates the opponent of doubt.

When you are in a system where no matter what you do, you lose, almost anyone in that circumstance will start to become dejected.

It's naive to think you could put a bunch of 18/19/20-year olds in a situation this unbalanced, have them outmatched physically and defensively virtually every game, and then expect them to have impeccable habits. Winning habits are nurtured by positive reinforcement. The Oilers don't have that, virtually any time a mistake is made it ends up in the back of our net, which leads to players play scared/timid trying to over play a system they probably don't fully understand in the first place, which then leads to even more goals against.

Our strategy basically was that we would simply "out-talent" our way out of this mess, which may have worked if the picks were say Stamkos, Tavares, and Kane or something, our kids aren't quite that good, but by the same token that doesn't mean we should throw them away for some kind of quick fix to become a 9th/10th seed.

 

[backhandsauce]

We need D that can spring the forwards. Hard, fast tape to tape passes. D that can carry the puck out of the zone safe.

It's really too bad Whitney had bummed feet because his passes were something to watch.

I watched the Isles last night. Lubo still looks good. It's also too bad that didn't work out.

 

[Soundwave]

We need D that can spring the forwards. Hard, fast tape to tape passes. D that can carry the puck out of the zone safe.

It's really too bad Whitney had bummed feet because his passes were something to watch.

I watched the Isles last night. Lubo still looks good. It's also too bad that didn't work out.

They will probably try to offer Andrei Markov a ton of money if he makes it to July 5th. Yeah Whitney had a beauty outlet pass, but of course he feet were going to fall apart. Sucks.

 

[joestevens29]

You make it known that you have no untouchables and you will be looking at a different class of players, not the Erhoffs, Edler's or Keslers who've played most of their best hockey.