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Proof is in the Pudding - John Tavares

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I've never understood the struggles people have with worst vs. worse. It drives me crazy!

OP please look up the difference.
 
Melrose Munch said:
All these signings of Spezza, Thornton, Simmonds tell me something about his leadership, and it isn't good.
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You need more than 1 guy. Look at NJ and Dallas and Detroit and Colorado in the early 2000 and then a Chicago in the 2010s.

Tavares Muzzin Thornton Spezza will mold Matthews Marner and Rielly into the next generation of leaders.
 
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Even-strength, Tavares is now 377th overall in the league for goals/60. Not bad for $11 million per season, he's tied with other NHL snipers Aaron Ekblad and Christopher Tanev.
 
This was not at all the case in his first year with us but in a way, Isles fans weren't wrong.

Here's a sample 'last 5' from JT.

Game 1: 1-2-3
Game 2: 0-0-0
Game 3: 0-1-1
Game 4: 0-0-0
Game 5: 1-0-1

5: 2-3-5

You might say 'well, he's PPG!', yeah but for at least two and possibly four of those games he's a non factor.

A lot of what he does doesn't show up on the scoreboard; faceoffs, cycling, any leadership in the room, but making what he makes you want him to be noticeable - in a good way, in at least 50% of games.

When was the last time he sniped one from thirty feet out, or shoveled in some garbage in the crease, or kept a team in their zone for a minute with a killer cycle? It seems like Matthews and Marner make it rain out there, then Willy and JT arrive just in time to completely kill the momentum.

Last night, he (and Vesey) cost us a point; Freddy, Mitch or Rielly didn't cost us a point, it was him and his flippant, carefree play with the puck.

He will eventually finish the season around PPG, but I want to see better game-to-game results here.
 
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At this point in their careers... who is better, Kadri or Tavares? Without taking into account cap hit and with taking it into account...
 
saffronleaf said:
At this point in their careers... who is better, Kadri or Tavares? Without taking into account cap hit and with taking it into account...
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I said this out of frustration last year, but there were some nights where there wasn’t a discernible qualitative difference between John Tavares’ play and Jason Spezza. Is 91 our superstar $11 million man, or is it 19? Which one is making $700,000 on a retirement contract?

This year I couldn’t tell you which one of Tavares, Thornton or Spezza is going to be better in any given game in 5 on 5 play. I suppose if you justify it as $12.5 million spent on three similar centres/wingers totalling $4 million each, we are doing it by committee at a cost similar to what Kadri made, so not all is lost. I give Dubas a ton of credit for really averaging down the salaries but it’s a damning comment on how bad Tavares is at this moment in his career.

I suppose moving forward we are going to have to have ex superstars come on on $700K flat cap specials to make this JT contract work.
 
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It was kind of funny that Craig Button was knocking Tavares for 11 million and his almost PPG stats and in the same breath, complimented Carey Price.
 
saffronleaf said:
I like Kadri a lot, but yea I looked up his performance this year and... yea, not very good.
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If he had those stats on Toronto as second line C we'd all hear "Is Kadri Regressing"?
Truth be told, aside from that playoff run he hasn't been the same guy we saw hit back to back 30 goal seasons.
 
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saffronleaf said:
At this point in their careers... who is better, Kadri or Tavares? Without taking into account cap hit and with taking it into account...
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Let's see what the numbers think.

This year 82gm Paces:

Tavares (30): EV 5gl/41pt pace (52.4xgf%, 7.6oish%) --- PP (2:15), 21gl/36pt pace
Kadri (30): EV 13gl/32pt pace (52.5xgf%, 9.5oish%) ---- PP (4:33), 13gl/19pt pace
Kerfoot (26): EV 10gl/31pt pace (43.5xgf%, 8.4oish%) -- PP (1:05), 0gl/5pt pace


Since trade:

Tavares (30): EV 21gl/50pt pace (52.6xgf%, 8.6oish%) --- PP (2:51), 11gl/29pt pace
Kadri (30): EV 22gl/38pt pace (50.2xgf%, 11.0oish%) ----- PP (3:57), 8gl/18pt pace
Kerfoot (26): EV 10gl/31pt pace (50.4xgf%, 10.1oish%) --- PP (1:13), 1gl/4pt pace
 
Voodoo Child said:
Last night, he (and Vesey) cost us a point; Freddy, Mitch or Rielly didn't cost us a point, it was him and his flippant, carefree play with the puck.
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What kind of BS is this?

First goal was 100% on Andersen and his terrible positioning.
The 2nd goal, while Tavares gave up the puck the second time, only happened because Andersen gave up the puck the first time (and gave up a terrible rebound on the shot).
3rd goal he got undressed by Artyom Zub... Who is like Marincin. I don't care if it is a breakaway, you don't get undressed by guys like Zub.
4th goal was fine. Vesey broke his stick, and it was effectively a 5-on-3. It happens.
5th goal, he gave up another bad rebound into the slot, when it should have easily gone to the boards.
6th goal, he didn't even come close to playing Dadonov on the breakaway properly.

So 5 goals are on Andersen at least in some major way, while Tavares and Vesey (if you are being extremely harsh) cost us 2 goals? He single-handedly gifted that game to Ottawa with atrocious play. Rebound control and positioning has been bad all year, even when he is making saves, but our team is covering him and literally the only reason he is even scraping by on a .900 save percentage right now. He better come out today and put up a great game.
 
RogerR said:
If he had those stats on Toronto as second line C we'd all hear "Is Kadri Regressing"?
Truth be told, aside from that playoff run he hasn't been the same guy we saw hit back to back 30 goal seasons.
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And it's not like he can't say he doesn't have MacKinnon eating up all of the tough matchups too. Nor good line mates, and he gets to play on a PP with MacKinnon too.

So I doubt he gets much better than that anywhere else. He was once a steal, but these days, he's at best living up to his contract... And we don't need a 4.5 mill 3C.
 
SeaOfBlue said:
And it's not like he can't say he doesn't have MacKinnon eating up all of the tough matchups too. Nor good line mates, and he gets to play on a PP with MacKinnon too.

So I doubt he gets much better than that anywhere else. He was once a steal, but these days, he's at best living up to his contract... And we don't need a 4.5 mill 3C.
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in fact, colorado's weak 3rd line C compher takes tougher qoc and near as much ice time at evens.
 
Machinae said:
Matthews > JT >>> Marner > Nylander

Tavares has been fantastic since day 1 and carried Marner to his payday.. If there is fat to trim on this roster, it's the bum wingers that don't play hard or show up in the clutch. Our centers are elite and were two of the only bright spots in that Columbus series.
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:laugh:
 
Machinae said:
My opinions have changed slightly since this season :sarcasm: I still think Marner is benefitting from playing with Matthews.. don't think he'd be swimming in assists by giving the puck to Mikheyev and Kerfoot.

Tavares.. he was really good in the playoffs :huh:
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No worries.
Marner is benefiting as is Matthews. That is why I hate the idea of splitting them up. Together, they might dislodge some of those trophies that never goes to leaf players.
Their numbers arent just good, they are astounding.
 
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