Projected season lineup

[LORDE]

I don't see where the goals are going to come from.

If only we had a PP. Ahhhhhhhhhh dreams.

 

[Blue Blooded]

I don't see where the goals are going to come from.

If only we had a PP. Ahhhhhhhhhh dreams.

Up and down the lineup. At least 5v5.

Nash and Pouliot are proven great 5v5 goal scorers. Look at the 5v5 numbers from the past four seasons, adjusted for zone starts.

Richards, Hagelin, and Stepan are also good 5v5 goal scorers.

Callahan evidently struggles to score 5v5, but he is OTOH an elite 5v4 scorer.

Brass and Zucc will also pot some, despite being primarily playmakers.

It may come as a shock to some, but we actually have skilled offensive depth for once.

 

[beef 4 lunch]

Scoring from up and down the line-up, huh?

Good god.... Can anyone name 5 teams worse on left wing than the Rangers?

For a team as deep on defense as us, it's totally unacceptable to be fielding such a weak squad on the left side.
Does any combo of potential left wingers have more than 20 goals last year combined?

Scary.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The Rangers have a weakness? Stop the press! They need to be dominant at every area.

 

[16 To Stanley*]

Scoring from up and down the line-up, huh?

Good god.... Can anyone name 5 teams worse on left wing than the Rangers?

For a team as deep on defense as us, it's totally unacceptable to be fielding such a weak squad on the left side.
Does any combo of potential left wingers have more than 20 goals last year combined?

Scary.

Zucc
Kreider
Hagelin
Pouliot
Boyle

Certainly not terrible. Only thing they're missing is a high end guy. But if Kreider can play up to even semi-expectations this year, their left wing depth is going to be sick.

 

[beef 4 lunch]

There is certainly room for someone to step up in that position. Although most have zucc playing right wing. Realistically, how many goals are expected from Kreider this year? 8...10?

As far as snowblond's comment goes, I don't really know how to respond. It was just a little shocking for me to look through the projected lineups on left wing. I knew it was thin but to see it on paper caught me off guard.

 

[16 To Stanley*]

There is certainly room for someone to step up in that position. Although most have zucc playing right wing. Realistically, how many goals are expected from Kreider this year? 8...10?

As far as snowblond's comment goes, I don't really know how to respond. It was just a little shocking for me to look through the projected lineups on left wing. I knew it was thin but to see it on paper caught me off guard.

If 8 or 10 goals is what he pots, i will be extremely disappointed. I am expecting at worse 15 from him.

 

[beef 4 lunch]

And just to add... Snowblind: I did not mention that we need to be dominant everywhere. If you don't see missing a proven top 6 left wing as concerning, then fine. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

And just to add... Snowblind: I did not mention that we need to be dominant everywhere. If you don't see missing a proven top 6 left wing as concerning, then fine. Ignorance is bliss.

Whatever, I choose to look at the positives before we even lost a game, if you want to dwell on the negatives, be my guest.

 

[beef 4 lunch]

If 8 or 10 goals is what he pots, i will be extremely disappointed. I am expecting at worse 15 from him.

I don't know. People are always so high on Kreider. Last year he was pencilled in on the first line by many here after a crappy training camp. Seems like high expectations to me

 

[Fitzy]

It's ironic, because people say Zuccarello is overhyped and has done nothing, but he's done more than Kreider has, and I'd argue Kreider has received more hype.

We have a lot of guys coming into relative make-or-break years for their role as an NHL player. Those are two of them.

 

[beef 4 lunch]

I am 100% in support of these young guns coming in and seizing opportunities. I just can't believe that we aren't going into the season with a proven, experienced, 15 to 20 goalscorer on the left wing.

 

[eco's bones]

Last three years the Rangers have finished 16th, 11th and 15th in goals--that's an average offense--not a terrible one. The 2008-09 season we finished 28th in offense so since then we've actually improved. The last 3 years we've finished 5th, 3rd and 4th in defense--that's an excellent defense. It's where our main strength has been and considering that this coming year's defense looks to be deeper than those of the past 3 years that's a reason for being optimistic. Another reason to be optimistic is that this coming year's offense is at least as deep in quality veterans (even if a lot of them are bottom 6 players--they should be bottom 6 players who chip in) as it was two years ago when we had the 11th best offense and with more and better quality prospects on the cusp. That doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to have a better pwp but at least when Stepan, Callahan and Hagelin have returned and we're up to full strength we should be at least back to where we were a couple years ago when we nearly won the President's trophy.

I kind of expect a rocky start. The first 9 games on the road with some key players out. After that if we can stay away from major injuries we should be more than okay.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I am 100% in support of these young guns coming in and seizing opportunities. I just can't believe that we aren't going into the season with a proven, experienced, 15 to 20 goalscorer on the left wing.

Hagelin netted 14 goals his rookie year and 10 goals in 48 games last season. I think its safe to say he will put up 15 goals once he comes back at the end of October.

Pouliet has netted 17 goals, 13 goals , 16 goals and 8 goals (in 34 games) respectively over the last four years. Again safe to say he nets at least 15.

Kreider is going to be given every opportunity to succeed on a top line. If he can show us what he did in the playoffs two years ago(or at least close to it) he should be good for at least 15 goals.

Boyle is Boyle. He will probably fall somewhere between last seasons performance and what he did when he netted 20 goals. Let's say 8-10.

We don't have stars per say on the left side, but they are no scrubs either. I think a healthy and signed line up of:

Kreider - Richards - Nash
Hagelin - Stepan - Callahan
Pouliet - Brassard - Zucc
Boyle - Moore - Dorsett

Is extremely deep and actually has players playing where they can succeed and should be playing (IE Boyle on the fourth line instead of centering the third). The only real question market for me is Kreider (once everyone is healthy that's is). But like I said he is going to be given every opportunity playing with true top six talent.

 

[beef 4 lunch]

.
Kreider - Richards - Nash
Hagelin - Stepan - Callahan
Pouliet - Brassard - Zucc
Boyle - Moore - Dorsett

My thoughts:
Two MAJOR question marks on the first line.
Hagelin, to me, is a third liner.
I'm pretty happy with the third and forth lines.

Curious when will we deal from our strength and bolster our forwards. As pointed out above, we have been among the top defensive teams for a few years. But we have never had enough offense. Is the plan to wait until Richards is bought out, hope brassard becomes a solid number two center, and buy a good left winger?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Last three years the Rangers have finished 16th, 11th and 15th in goals--that's an average offense--not a terrible one. The 2008-09 season we finished 28th in offense so since then we've actually improved. The last 3 years we've finished 5th, 3rd and 4th in defense--that's an excellent defense. It's where our main strength has been and considering that this coming year's defense looks to be deeper than those of the past 3 years that's a reason for being optimistic. Another reason to be optimistic is that this coming year's offense is at least as deep in quality veterans (even if a lot of them are bottom 6 players--they should be bottom 6 players who chip in) as it was two years ago when we had the 11th best offense and with more and better quality prospects on the cusp. That doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to have a better pwp but at least when Stepan, Callahan and Hagelin have returned and we're up to full strength we should be at least back to where we were a couple years ago when we nearly won the President's trophy.

I kind of expect a rocky start. The first 9 games on the road with some key players out. After that if we can stay away from major injuries we should be more than okay.

I didn't think that the 11-12 team was that deep. The 3rd line did play Torts' system well. That team was tailor made for Torts and was very successful in the regular season but don't forget, they won the first 2 rounds by the skin of their teeth and lost to a good but not great team in NJ in the ECF, getting dominated in the process.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

My thoughts:
Two MAJOR question marks on the first line.
Hagelin, to me, is a third liner.
I'm pretty happy with the third and forth lines.

Curious when will we deal from our strength and bolster our forwards. As pointed out above, we have been among the top defensive teams for a few years. But we have never had enough offense. Is the plan to wait until Richards is bought out, hope brassard becomes a solid number two center, and buy a good left winger?

I agree on Kreider-Richards-Nash. I don't think I trust Kreider or Richards. I hope AV brings the best out of them.

 

[eco's bones]

I didn't think that the 11-12 team was that deep. The 3rd line did play Torts' system well. That team was tailor made for Torts and was very successful in the regular season but don't forget, they won the first 2 rounds by the skin of their teeth and lost to a good but not great team in NJ in the ECF, getting dominated in the process.

They had to grind too many games out but they were a team that did not have the talent that the Pens had for one and that still won a lot. Ottawa and Washington were big at forward and had very good goaltending. The Rangers were not as deep on defense. Girardi, Staal and McDonagh especially were getting too much ice time in the playoffs. Our 6th guy Bickel hardly any. We have a very good 6th (Moore) and 7th (Falk) right now. New Jersey came in and it was the same style all over again. Boyle got hurt--Gaborik was playing hurt. The Rangers could not hold it together. The 4th line could have been stronger. They got ripped apart by Gionta, Carter, Bernier. The Rangers have more pieces this time around--whether guys like Lindberg, Fast, Kristo, Miller, Hrivik, Haley get much NHL ice time or not--they are all players capable of adding something to the mix if called upon.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

They had to grind too many games out but they were a team that did not have the talent that the Pens had for one and that still won a lot. Ottawa and Washington were big at forward and had very good goaltending. The Rangers were not as deep on defense. Girardi, Staal and McDonagh especially were getting too much ice time in the playoffs. Our 6th guy Bickel hardly any. We have a very good 6th (Moore) and 7th (Falk) right now. New Jersey came in and it was the same style all over again. Boyle got hurt--Gaborik was playing hurt. The Rangers could not hold it together. The 4th line could have been stronger. They got ripped apart by Gionta, Carter, Bernier. The Rangers have more pieces this time around--whether guys like Lindberg, Fast, Kristo, Miller, Hrivik, Haley get much NHL ice time or not--they are all players capable of adding something to the mix if called upon.

I think our team last year at the end was better than the team 2 years ago. This year, forget it. The Rangers 2 years ago would have been humiliated even worse by the Bruins of last year.

 

[eco's bones]

I think our team last year at the end was better than the team 2 years ago. This year, forget it. The Rangers 2 years ago would have been humiliated even worse by the Bruins of last year.

The moves at the deadline did us worlds of good. Included in the problems of the 12-13 team was a lack of quality depth. I've always liked Asham but IMO he's practically had it. Pyatt, Powe, Halpern, Rupp--just yuck. Bickel, Hamrlik, Gilroy not doing it either. Richards crap play and Kreider's lack of progress accentuated all of that. Tortorella's coaching might have gone cold for a lot of the players and fans but Sather didn't give him a full lineup worthy of working with. I can understand his getting canned--I just don't think the subpar year was all his fault. Last year's team just wasn't as good as the 11-12 team. This year's team does look considerably better on paper than the 12-13 team at least when Callahan, Stepan and Hagelin are added into the mix.

 

[Blue Blooded]

My thoughts:
Two MAJOR question marks on the first line.
Hagelin, to me, is a third liner.
I'm pretty happy with the third and forth lines.

Curious when will we deal from our strength and bolster our forwards. As pointed out above, we have been among the top defensive teams for a few years. But we have never had enough offense. Is the plan to wait until Richards is bought out, hope brassard becomes a solid number two center, and buy a good left winger?

I get that Hagelin can be percieved as less than a top-6 player. Looking at him on the ice, nothing but his skating stands out as elite. He fails to receive passes cleanly sometimes and he is smallish.

But if we look at his actual impact on the ice a whole different story unfolds.

First of all he drives play exceptionally well, likely due to his ability to skate the puck up the ice and into the zone with control. He is 26th among all NHL forwards in FF% over the past two years, despite playing on a mediocre possession team. And he has done this against top competition. The next Ranger is Derek Stepan, 76th.

But possession isn't everything, you need actual results in the form of goals to win games.

Hagelin is 34th among forwards in zone start adjusted points/60 over the past two seasons. 2nd on the Rangers, only a sliver behind Nash.

He is 11th in GF% (basically +/- per ice time). Stepan is 3rd and Pouliot (!) is 12th.

Carl Hagelin has been an elite 5v5 two-way winger over the past two seasons. A 1st liner by any measurable standard.

But since he stinks on the powerplay people think; 40-50pt player, 2nd-3rd line tweener.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

If Benoit Pouliot is this super secret 5 on 5 weapon, how come he has never scored 20 goals or 40 points at the NHL level? Sure he has been on pace for +20 goals and nearly 50 pts twice. But both occurred over a sample size of less than a half season. Wouldn't the fact that he has never actually put it together for 82 NHL games, as a 26 y/o be the real overriding message? Or does he just need more 5v5 ice time to be a 20/40 player, which he previous 4 coaches were just too blind to see?

He's a decent complimentary player. But his actual real life production does more to disprove the overanalysis of advanced statistics more than it supports Pouliot as some sort of legitimate answer.

 

[Blue Blooded]

If Benoit Pouliot is this super secret 5 on 5 weapon, how come he has never scored 20 goals or 40 points at the NHL level? Sure he has been on pace for +20 goals and nearly 50 pts twice. But both occurred over a sample size of less than a half season. Wouldn't the fact that he has never actually put it together for 82 NHL games, as a 26 y/o be the real overriding message? Or does he just need more 5v5 ice time to be a 20/40 player, which he previous 4 coaches were just too blind to see?

He's a decent complimentary player. But his actual real life production does more to disprove the overanalysis of advanced statistics more than it supports Pouliot as some sort of legitimate answer.

It is a combination of things IMO.

One is that he may have faced easy competition doing it. If you put him on the first line he will get more ice time which should give more points, but then he faces more difficult competition, so you may have to shelter him a bit to get good production out of him. But then again he got top-6 time in Tampa before his injury.

Then we move on to the PP, where most scorers put up the bulk of their points. Pouliot hasn't been very successful there, and concurrently hasn't gotten much time there either.

I think a lot has to do with perception and not actual results. He still has that "top-5 pick bust" aura, which devalues everything he does. On top of that he is a big guy, but plays pretty soft. He goes to the dirty areas and scores most of his goals around the net, but no one would ever mistake him for Lucic.

As someone who values 5v5 contributions a lot higher than special teams, I'm very excited to see what Pouliot can do this season. If he can score ~40 ES points that would be huge. For example, Nash only scored 38 in 2011-12.

 

[beef 4 lunch]

I get that Hagelin can be percieved as less than a top-6 player. Looking at him on the ice, nothing but his skating stands out as elite. He fails to receive passes cleanly sometimes and he is smallish.

But if we look at his actual impact on the ice a whole different story unfolds.

First of all he drives play exceptionally well, likely due to his ability to skate the puck up the ice and into the zone with control. He is 26th among all NHL forwards in FF% over the past two years, despite playing on a mediocre possession team. And he has done this against top competition. The next Ranger is Derek Stepan, 76th.

But possession isn't everything, you need actual results in the form of goals to win games.

Hagelin is 34th among forwards in zone start adjusted points/60 over the past two seasons. 2nd on the Rangers, only a sliver behind Nash.

He is 11th in GF% (basically +/- per ice time). Stepan is 3rd and Pouliot (!) is 12th.

Carl Hagelin has been an elite 5v5 two-way winger over the past two seasons. A 1st liner by any measurable standard.

But since he stinks on the powerplay people think; 40-50pt player, 2nd-3rd line tweener.

I disagree that he is a 1st liner by any measurable standard....how about points? I see the numbers you posted, and i get the point you are trying to make, but there is no way Carl Hagelin should be considered an elite player.

 

[Raspewtin]

no one's calling Hagelin an elite player, but he also gets very little credit from Ranger fans because he sucks at finishing. Hagelin is a great defensive forward and would move mountains to get to a loose puck, and when he has the puck, he's (to put it nicely) really ****ing hard to knock off of it. His game is perfect for a puck possession style, and remember he was playing injured all year and the playoffs. Personally, to me Hagelin's ceiling is 60 pt defensive winger, I think he could be one of this year's surprises, especially if he can find some kind of goal scoring groove.