GDT: Preseason Game 5. Kraken @ Oilers beer leaguer. Streaming on Oilers+ at 7 pm

[GhostfaceWu]

Janmark can kill penalties and do other things and Lavoie can't.

Brown on GYB nailed it. Lavoie simply won't be put in a position to score due to the volume of guys ahead of him in the lineup that can do it better than he can. He's not killing penalties. He's not winning defensive matchups. He's not an energy/role player.

Other than the principle of losing a player on waivers being offensive, I am struggling to think of what the actual consequence is of losing Lavoie. We don't have a guy who's feature skill is scoring, but is probably around 7th or 8th (generously) in line as far as that ability on the team goes.

His skills package is dime a dozen and if we lost him I don't know if we even attempt to find a replacement because we already have what he brings. He's basically Brendan Perlini and we don't need that.

Yeah and janmark can kill penalties from the fourth line. There's roo for both of them my point was that if you want more scoring out of your third line it won't be with janmark on it all season.

 

[Duke74]

I can listen to an argument to keeping him over Perry, like I said before, and I don't know why you're seizing on PK. He doesn't do much of anything else that isn't shooting the puck either with any sort of consistency.

He's not going to play in the top 6 over any scoring player we have there. We'll be expecting him to use that skill on a 3rd or 4th line. I just don't see it as a big deal if we lose him, but would still rather not.

The thing people are overlooking is the possibility of injuries. An injury to any top-six player gives Lavoie the opportunity to showcase his skillset with an elite center. In the meantime, he can start on the fourth line and work his way up if he impresses the coaching staff. He can even have the odd shift with McDavid/Draisaitl late in a blowout game. We can't afford to lose another young, cost-controlled player for nothing.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

The Oilers have no one shot scorers outside of Draisaitl and I guess Skinner perhaps but he's more of a close range scorer like Arvidsson, Hyman etc.

The young player and barren pipeline thing is very relevant because the Oilers have weak organizational depth in the pipeline and you're risking losing one of your better prospects because of....what reason now? Because he doesn't PK? That's beyond silly IMO. Does Perry PK? Why is he getting the spot over Lavoie? The whole PK argument doesn't hold water for me because they have a wealth of guys that can PK. Literally all of them in the bottom 6 outside of 4th line RW. They aren't hampering their PK units by playing Lavoie in the bottom 6.

This is a short and long term goal thing here. We really don't know what we have in Lavoie. He could be something, he could be nothing, but if he is something you have a young cost controlled big bodied goal scorer in your system that can be an asset going forward on an old roster with impending cap issues.
It's not a big deal if they lose him to waivers but it's something that can be easily avoided so why risk it?

Skinner's mid-range scoring is NHL 86.6 percentile three year average. He definitely has sniping ability to finish beyond the hard ice areas that Hyman thrives in. Add that Skinner's shooting percentage is also 75.3 percentile over the past three years.

Lavoie is a puzzling player. He's got that extremely rare ability to score and to do so in a variety of ways whether cannon from distance or in high danger areas utilizing size and reach. But the enigma is consistency of game to utilize his size advantage in all facets of the game especially at NHL level competition. Chicken and egg - can he do this if given enough runway or not but the issue is unknown if he doesn't get the icetime to find out. If I squint, I see almost some physical comparisons without the skating ability of a low rent district Stephane Richer. haha.

I'd like to see Lavoie get a shot in Edmonton. But I can also see a waiver eligible deal like the Kostin one for a different type prospect who maybe fits the hard ice bottom six game/need of this Oilers team.

 

[Mr Positive]

I can listen to an argument to keeping him over Perry, like I said before, and I don't know why you're seizing on PK. He doesn't do much of anything else that isn't shooting the puck either with any sort of consistency.

He's not going to play in the top 6 over any scoring player we have there. We'll be expecting him to use that skill on a 3rd or 4th line. I just don't see it as a big deal if we lose him, but would still rather not.

An appeal to having both Lavoie and Perry is that they play the same position. Perry seems likely to need games off, and I could see Perry being a good mentor or example for Lavoie considering Lavoie at least has similar tools as Perry.

Keeping Philp makes sense if it's about swapping out Ryan at times or wanting Ryan on the wing as an option.

 

[Oilslick941611]

I think they should waive Perry to start the season, have him pull the “I’ll retire if anyone claims me” card and send him down to Bako for a few weeks and give Lavoie a proper opportunity. Doing so would also give them a little more space to accrue if I’m not mistaken.

no one is claiming Perry at his salary and if they do they are doing us a favour.

 

[Thomas Tatar]

Skinner's mid-range scoring is NHL 86.6 percentile three year average. He definitely has sniping ability to finish beyond the hard ice areas that Hyman thrives in. Add that Skinner's shooting percentage is also 75.3 percentile over the past three years.

Lavoie is a puzzling player. He's got that extremely rare ability to score and to do so in a variety of ways whether cannon from distance or in high danger areas utilizing size and reach. But the enigma is consistency of game to utilize his size advantage in all facets of the game especially at NHL level competition. Chicken and egg - can he do this if given enough runway or not but the issue is unknown if he doesn't get the icetime to find out. If I squint, I see almost some physical comparisons without the skating ability of a low rent district Stephane Richer. haha.

I'd like to see Lavoie get a shot in Edmonton. But I can also see a waiver eligible deal like the Kostin one for a different type prospect who maybe fits the hard ice bottom six game/need of this Oilers team.

Yeah this is how I feel, don’t waive him and lose him, see if there is another organization with a similar issue at a different position and swap.

But for me, if the coaches can help turn Lavoie into a defensive 4th liner (by all accounts he is trying), then all things considered equal, I’d rather have a 4th liner that can at least be a threat to score once in a while. Lot of ‘ifs’ here I know.

 

[K1984]

Skinner's mid-range scoring is NHL 86.6 percentile three year average. He definitely has sniping ability to finish beyond the hard ice areas that Hyman thrives in. Add that Skinner's shooting percentage is also 75.3 percentile over the past three years.

Lavoie is a puzzling player. He's got that extremely rare ability to score and to do so in a variety of ways whether cannon from distance or in high danger areas utilizing size and reach. But the enigma is consistency of game to utilize his size advantage in all facets of the game especially at NHL level competition. Chicken and egg - can he do this if given enough runway or not but the issue is unknown if he doesn't get the icetime to find out. If I squint, I see almost some physical comparisons without the skating ability of a low rent district Stephane Richer. haha.

I'd like to see Lavoie get a shot in Edmonton. But I can also see a waiver eligible deal like the Kostin one for a different type prospect who maybe fits the hard ice bottom six game/need of this Oilers team.

This is where I am too.

Wonder if there is an opportunity to make a hockey deal with someone to get a roughly equivalent player with different attributes.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I find it curious that so many here put any sort of stock into the first week of preseason and are locking Lavoie into a roster spot based on that. Rattie, Holloway and Perlini all had great first preseason weeks and it meant nothing that season. The veterans that are playing are at half speed at best.

Let’s see how he plays in the next 2-3 games against tougher competition. Making defensive miscues like he did vs Seattle are costly for players trying to make teams with all the chips in it to win it. He needs to clean those up if he wants to earn coveted spot, good shot or not.

In terms of asset management a lot will depend on if the Oilers run 12 or 13F and put Kane on LTIR. If they do any of the later 2 choices Lavoie might be getting a roster spot but my guess is the Oilers will want to gain cap accrual by running 12F.

As has been said another option is to trade Lavoie for another asset if they think he might not clear waivers (but I still think he most likely would).

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Yeah this is how I feel, don’t waive him and lose him, see if there is another organization with a similar issue at a different position and swap.

But for me, if the coaches can help turn Lavoie into a defensive 4th liner (by all accounts he is trying), then all things considered equal, I’d rather have a 4th liner that can at least be a threat to score once in a while. Lot of ‘ifs’ here I know.

It's a razor thin line for many players based on raw attributes and talent. The differentiator is what I call Hockey Darwinism is the mental aspect of will, determination, grit and desire to which elevates some to NHL level or wilt to AHL careers. This is a major piece that's still not in focus with Lavoie against NHL talent and effort. Can he/will he leverage his physical gifts of size and strength to bring a harder game and high work rate in a support role? Establish himself with consistency of work rate and effort that earns coach confidence to build of his game beyond the elite shot. This is the great unknown for fans but which those that coach him have greater clarity and fuller picture. At a crossroads for sure.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

It's a razor thin line for many players based on raw attributes and talent. The differentiator is what I call Hockey Darwinism is the mental aspect of will, determination, grit and desire to which elevates some to NHL level or wilt to AHL careers. This is a major piece that's still not in focus with Lavoie against NHL talent and effort. Can he/will he leverage his physical gifts of size and strength to bring a harder game and high work rate in a support role? Establish himself with consistency of work rate and effort that earns coach confidence to build of his game beyond the elite shot. This is the great unknown for fans but which those that coach him have greater clarity and fuller picture. At a crossroads for sure.

And every team has one or two of these players nibbling on the edge of a roster spot. (ducks)

 

[MessierII]

Lavoie just needs to play physical. He had 5 hits last game. If he does that every game he makes the team. He doesn’t need to be a PKer but he needs to do something other than score and if he can bring the element I think he’s a lock. Arvidsson isn’t playing 82 games. There will be looks in the top 6 this year.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

This generation’s Kim Issel.

Eventually landed back at PA and became a city cop with current EPS Chief, Dale McFee , Bryan Glynn and others.

Kim Issel Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Kim Issel, a hockey player from Regina, SASK born Sep 25 1967 who was active from 1983 to 1998.

www.hockeydb.com

I think the Oilers lead the league in first round firefighters with Issel, the immortal Jason Soules, and a second career Chris Joseph.

 

[Thomas Tatar]

Lavoie just needs to play physical. He had 5 hits last game. If he does that every game he makes the team. He doesn’t need to be a PKer but he needs to do something other than score and if he can bring the element I think he’s a lock. Arvidsson isn’t playing 82 games. There will be looks in the top 6 this year.

Yeah, toughness is definitely lacking on this team and is a ‘role’

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Lavoie just needs to play physical. He had 5 hits last game. If he does that every game he makes the team. He doesn’t need to be a PKer but he needs to do something other than score and if he can bring the element I think he’s a lock. Arvidsson isn’t playing 82 games. There will be looks in the top 6 this year.

Like Lavoie as a call up playing in the top 6/9. Hate the idea he sits in the press box game after game or plays 5 mins a night on the 4th line.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

And every team has one or two of these players nibbling on the edge of a roster spot. (ducks)

It's true. Damn tough to make the NHL and any weakness physical or mental approach can be a determinator. In Lavoie's case, his path in Edmonton has to start with proof points that he can be a reliable 200 foot player who will play with high work rate consistency to grind away bottom six minutes against opposition. Add some opportunistic scoring support.

He's got the raw size and reach to enable this baseline. Does he have the mental grit and determination to do so is the lingering question. Just not in a position within Edmonton's reality to feast on the elite shot. Must have the dimensions this team requires to be successful which is within his ability to control. How hard does Raef want it?

 

[Fourier]

I find it curious that so many here put any sort of stock into the first week of preseason and are locking Lavoie into a roster spot based on that. Rattie, Holloway and Perlini all had great first preseason weeks and it meant nothing that season. The veterans that are playing are at half speed at best.

Let’s see how he plays in the next 2-3 games against tougher competition. Making defensive miscues like he did vs Seattle are costly for players trying to make teams with all the chips in it to win it. He needs to clean those up if he wants to earn coveted spot, good shot or not.

In terms of asset management a lot will depend on if the Oilers run 12 or 13F and put Kane on LTIR. If they do any of the later 2 choices Lavoie might be getting a roster spot but my guess is the Oilers will want to gain cap accrual by running 12F.

As has been said another option is to trade Lavoie for another asset if they think he might not clear waivers (but I still think he most likely would).

It's more than the first week. He had a really strong finish to his AHL season last year. As I pointed out he finished 10th in the AHL in goal scoring with only about 4 of the top ten being actual prospects.

He may well turn out to be another Perlini. But why not find out? At some point you have to give your prospects a shot. And perhaps the lesson of Holloway and Broberg is that if you wait too do so you may take options out of your own hands.

As far as clearing waivers look at Sam Fagemo last year. LA waived him and Nashville picked him up. They eventually lost him back to LA, but right now it looks a lot like that was a mistake on their part. Teams are willing to give goal scorers a shot.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

It's more than the first week. He had a really strong finish to his AHL season last year. As I pointed out he finished 10th in the AHL in goal scoring with only about 4 of the top ten being actual prospects.

He may well turn out to be another Perlini. But why not find out? At some point you have to give your prospects a shot. And perhaps the lesson of Holloway and Broberg is that if you wait too do so you may take options out of your own hands.

As far as clearing waivers look at Sam Fagemo last year. LA waived him and Nashville picked him up. They eventually lost him back to LA, but right now it looks a lot like that was a mistake on their part. Teams are willing to give goal scorers a shot.

Last years AHL home runs dont win todays NHL ball games though. It’s a what have you done for me lately league.

I’m not saying they should or shouldn’t waive Lavoie. I’m saying in my opinion I don’t think he’s outplayed Philp and that I believe the Oilers have their top 12 written in stone right now barring injury.

He can shoot and score but to initially make this team it’ll be on the bottom line and so his game has to fully evolve to that style. He’s made progress yes no doubt.

I’d love to see him play in the middle 6 to see what he can do in preseason. If he fits there then the Oilers have a difficult decision to make.

 

[brentashton]

I think the Oilers lead the league in first round firefighters with Issel, the immortal Jason Soules, and a second career Chris Joseph.

Police and Firefighters. Both are noble professions with men and women bravely putting their wellbeing at risk for our safety. Can’t say thank you enough.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Police and Firefighters. Both are noble professions with men and women bravely putting their wellbeing at risk for our safety. Can’t say thank you enough.

Add Gilbert Brule who apparently was a firefighter for a short time in between career years in hockey.

 

[CupofOil]

I can listen to an argument to keeping him over Perry, like I said before, and I don't know why you're seizing on PK. He doesn't do much of anything else that isn't shooting the puck either with any sort of consistency.

He's not going to play in the top 6 over any scoring player we have there. We'll be expecting him to use that skill on a 3rd or 4th line. I just don't see it as a big deal if we lose him, but would still rather not.

Yeah, I'm not trying to say it's a big deal but Lavoie is still an asset worth developing with a unique skillset in this organization and there's no reason to waive him as there's a spot to be had, plus he's done well enough to earn an opportunity so based on merit he should get a chance.

I'd just hate to lose a young, cost controlled asset with some talent for nothing when they don't have to. I just don't see any argument for waiving him tbh.

 

[Fourier]

Last years AHL home runs dont win todays NHL ball games though. It’s a what have you done for me lately league.

I’m not saying they should or shouldn’t waive Lavoie. I’m saying in my opinion I don’t think he’s outplayed Philp and that I believe the Oilers have their top 12 written in stone right now barring injury.

He can shoot and score but to initially make this team it’ll be on the bottom line and so his game has to fully evolve to that style. He’s made progress yes no doubt.

I’d love to see him play in the middle 6 to see what he can do in preseason. If he fits there then the Oilers have a difficult decision to make.

The roster on day one is almost surely not the roster on day 20. If they waive Lavoie and he is claimed they cannot use him. If all they care about though is this year then they will waive him and not worry at all about a claim. But next year they need cheap players because of the pending deals for Draisaitl and Bouchard. Having cheap internal options is important. That is why they lost Holloway and Broberg. Because they were no longer cheap.

Philp is waiver eligible and could be brought up at any time.

 

[joestevens29]

Like Lavoie as a call up playing in the top 6/9. Hate the idea he sits in the press box game after game or plays 5 mins a night on the 4th line.

One simple solution is for Knobs to actually play the 4th line, especially early on.

He was smart enough to identify that last year that having too many of the top 6 on the PK and of course the powerplay was taking away the flow of the game for his bottom 6 as a whole, so hopefully early on he tries to get that 4th lines more minutes

 

[Jarvi]

No chance Lavoie makes it past the Habs if we waive him, imo. With Laine out, probably for a long time with how bad that collision looked, would they skip the chance bring in a young similar style player, who is also a French Canadian? I can't see it.

 

[Boner Pills]

I've been waiting to see how Lavoie plays for us, and still haven't with pre-season behind a paywall.

I keep having visions of St. Louis snagging him off waivers.

 

[Spawn]

Janmark can kill penalties and do other things and Lavoie can't.

Brown on GYB nailed it. Lavoie simply won't be put in a position to score due to the volume of guys ahead of him in the lineup that can do it better than he can. He's not killing penalties. He's not winning defensive matchups. He's not an energy/role player.

Other than the principle of losing a player on waivers being offensive, I am struggling to think of what the actual consequence is of losing Lavoie. We don't have a guy who's feature skill is scoring, but is probably around 7th or 8th (generously) in line as far as that ability on the team goes.

His skills package is dime a dozen and if we lost him I don't know if we even attempt to find a replacement because we already have what he brings. He's basically Brendan Perlini and we don't need that.

Regarding the bold. Janmark and Brown combined for 8 goals last season. I know Oiler fans have a hard-on for that Janmark-Henrique-Brown 3rd line because of like 5 good games in the playoffs, but lets not pretend like those two wingers are a sure bet to be legit top 9 forwards all season. Would benefit having someone who can move up and contribute some hypothetical offense if one or both of those guys slump for an entire season again.

And in terms of not killing penalties, winning defensive matchups... neither is Corey Perry. And frankly, with no disrespect to Perry, I see Lavoie just as capable of filling an energy role as him at this point in their respect careers. It's not like Lavoie is afraid of using his body out there. Limited sample size, but he threw more hits/60 than any player on the team last season other than Adam Erne. Hell, he's not even afraid to drop the gloves if need be.

This kid took $140K less than he could have if he just accepted his qualifying offer for goodness sake.

At some point you need to reward prospects in your organization who do everything you ask of them.

Let Corey Perry ride the bench and play on the 2nd night of back to backs or when someone is banged up. Frankly what the Oilers should be doing with Perry is waiving him but have him stick around and only "calling him up" on days that he's actually going to play in order to maximize cap savings.