GDT: Preseason Game 5. Kraken @ Oilers beer leaguer. Streaming on Oilers+ at 7 pm

[brentashton]

This kid took $140K less than he could have if he just accepted his qualifying offer for goodness sake.

some point you need to reward prospects in your organization who do everything you ask of them.

You realize that he didn’t do that (the bolded) because he’s the Salvation Army charity foundation. If he had signed it, he would be earning more than league minimum. Not much more, but more all the same.

It was completely self serving for him to decline the QO so he didn’t box him self out of a potential job on a cap limited team by some other marginal tweener who did have a cheaper, league minimum contract. The team owes him ZERO for doing this.

At the end of the day he has to fill a need. If he can’t, he's rightfully Bako bound.

 

[McDoused]

Regarding the bold. Janmark and Brown combined for 8 goals last season. I know Oiler fans have a hard-on for that Janmark-Henrique-Brown 3rd line because of like 5 good games in the playoffs, but lets not pretend like those two wingers are a sure bet to be legit top 9 forwards all season. Would benefit having someone who can move up and contribute some hypothetical offense if one or both of those guys slump for an entire season again.

And in terms of not killing penalties, winning defensive matchups... neither is Corey Perry. And frankly, with no disrespect to Perry, I see Lavoie just as capable of filling an energy role as him at this point in their respect careers. It's not like Lavoie is afraid of using his body out there. Limited sample size, but he threw more hits/60 than any player on the team last season other than Adam Erne. Hell, he's not even afraid to drop the gloves if need be.

This kid took $140K less than he could have if he just accepted his qualifying offer for goodness sake.

At some point you need to reward prospects in your organization who do everything you ask of them.

Let Corey Perry ride the bench and play on the 2nd night of back to backs or when someone is banged up. Frankly what the Oilers should be doing with Perry is waiving him but have him stick around and only "calling him up" on days that he's actually going to play in order to maximize cap savings.

Totally agree on Lavoie.
Best case scenario Perry has a good season, wins the cup and then retires. He's going to be 40 years old in May and I just don't see how he fits into the long term plans.

Lavoie on the other hand makes 400k less (allowing us to accrue more cap for the deadline) and actually has a future with this team. For me, worst case scenario he doesn't pan out and you upgrade at the deadline. Best Cass scenario he's a young cost controlled asset that we desperately need.

I do disagree about Brown and Janmark though. Brown was recovering from a brutal injury and I fully expect him to produce more. He's proven over his career that he can do this and should regress to to mean. Janmark has also consistently potted 10+ goals. No reason to think he can't get the 10 he had the year prior.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

The roster on day one is almost surely not the roster on day 20. If they waive Lavoie and he is claimed they cannot use him. If all they care about though is this year then they will waive him and not worry at all about a claim. But next year they need cheap players because of the pending deals for Draisaitl and Bouchard. Having cheap internal options is important. That is why they lost Holloway and Broberg. Because they were no longer cheap.

Philp is waiver eligible and could be brought up at any time.

I agree 100%. We will see if the team plans on accruing, putting Kane on LTIR or gambling on the waiver wire. Lavoie needs to light it up in a couple solid 200 foot games this week to force the Oilers hand on which direction they go. Emberson playing very well may allow them to LTIR Kane and keep both Philp and Lavoie which is what I’d like to at the end of the day.

 

[Spawn]

You realize that he didn’t do that (the bolded) because he’s the Salvation Army charity foundation. If he had signed it, he would be earning more than league minimum. Not much more, but more all the same.

It was completely self serving for him to decline the QO so he didn’t box him self out of a potential job on a cap limited team by some other marginal tweener who did have a cheaper, league minimum contract. The team owes him ZERO for doing this.

At the end of the day he has to fill a need. If he can’t, he's rightfully Bako bound.

I’m aware of that fact. The point is he’s doing everything he can to make himself an option on the roster. Including putting in a damned good preseason on the ice.

What more can he do?

Let’s be 100% honest. If Lavoie doesn’t make the team, it’s not because he didn’t earn a spot or fill a need. It’s because the organization cares more about being loyal to Perry. Ditto for Philp and Ryan. But at least Ryan has shown he still had a pulse this preseason.

 

[Spawn]

I agree 100%. We will see if the team plans on accruing, putting Kane on LTIR or gambling on the waiver wire. Lavoie needs to light it up in a couple solid 200 foot games this week to force the Oilers hand on which direction they go. Emberson playing very well may allow them to LTIR Kane and keep both Philp and Lavoie which is what I’d like to at the end of the day.

Lavoie needs to be a modern day Brendan Shannahan out there to make the team. Meanwhile Corey Perry needs to just show he can lace up his skates.

If the issue was actually accruing cap space for the deadline than both Ryan and Perry would be on waivers with Lavoie and Philp being on the roster. You’d end up with more than $6m in accrued space at the deadline and be icing the better roster. God forbid this team has more than two forwards under the age of 30 on the opening day roster.

 

[brentashton]

Why do we have a Vancouver telecast for an Oilers home game?

I think they usually do this in preseason, just use the home feed and announcers. Rogers is also extremely cheap.

Im watching without sound, I have some other tunes playing, so it should be ok.

Edit - there’s Chief Willie Littlechild, I take that all back. It’s an Oiler home game. Who the f*** knows what they are doing!!

 

[Dakinjor]

i cant even find the link to the game on oilers+ i want a refund from my fking free trial

 

[Drivesaitl]

You realize that he didn’t do that (the bolded) because he’s the Salvation Army charity foundation. If he had signed it, he would be earning more than league minimum. Not much more, but more all the same.

It was completely self serving for him to decline the QO so he didn’t box him self out of a potential job on a cap limited team by some other marginal tweener who did have a cheaper, league minimum contract. The team owes him ZERO for doing this.

At the end of the day he has to fill a need. If he can’t, he's rightfully Bako bound.

You talking about Lavoie? I'd be surprised if he doesn't get picked up on Waivers. Would be another prospect we just waste. Very useful player who has been good again in preseason.

 

[brentashton]

You talking about Lavoie? I'd be surprised if he doesn't get picked up on Waivers. Would be another prospect we just waste. Very useful player who has been good again in preseason.

Yes, it was a reference to a statement made of Lavoie by another poster.

Lavoie won’t make it through waivers, agreed, unless management decides to “hide” him for future needs, because I don’t see him fitting this roster at this point with his skill set and where there are gaps to be filled.

To me the question on Lavoie and the Oilers is whether he has a role on the post season roster or into next year. He’s 4+ years into a pro career and frankly, hasn’t shown a huge progression and maybe that’s shared, partly on him and management. The cupboard of prospects is pretty bare so it might be unfortunate to lose him but I don’t see him having a role on this “win now” edition of the Oilers. He’s a one dimensional, a 5 on 5 offensive focused winger. He doesn’t PK, he doesn’t play centre, he’s not an energy guy. It’s too bad as an AHLer he hasn’t added to his versatility to improve his prospects to fill roster spots. To me he can be replaced in the draft or by farming the NCAA free agent ranks etc.. He’d be a loss but not a big loss if he was waived.

If the club decides he has to be kept, then I think you assign Perry to Bakersfield and hope he doesn’t retire if given that ultimatum. Otherwise if he does, then with elevating Lavoie they have lost their first injury call up (Lavoie or alternately Perry) if and when that happens.

 

[Canovin]

Yes, it was a reference to a statement made of Lavoie by another poster.

Lavoie won’t make it through waivers, agreed, unless management decides to “hide” him for future needs, because I don’t see him fitting this roster at this point with his skill set and where there are gaps to be filled.

To me the question on Lavoie and the Oilers is whether he has a role on the post season roster or into next year. He’s 4+ years into a pro career and frankly, hasn’t shown a huge progression and maybe that’s shared, partly on him and management. The cupboard of prospects is pretty bare so it might be unfortunate to lose him but I don’t see him having a role on this “win now” edition of the Oilers. He’s a one dimensional, a 5 on 5 offensive focused winger. He doesn’t PK, he doesn’t play centre, he’s not an energy guy. It’s too bad as an AHLer he hasn’t added to his versatility to improve his prospects to fill roster spots. To me he can be replaced in the draft or by farming the NCAA free agent ranks etc.. He’d be a loss but not a big loss if he was waived.

If the club decides he has to be kept, then I think you assign Perry to Bakersfield and hope he doesn’t retire if given that ultimatum. Otherwise if he does, then with elevating Lavoie they have lost their first injury call up (Lavoie or alternately Perry) if and when that happens.

Waive Perry. Teams know Perry wants to be on the Oilers and most likely not going to report if a team picks him up.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yes, it was a reference to a statement made of Lavoie by another poster.

Lavoie won’t make it through waivers, agreed, unless management decides to “hide” him for future needs, because I don’t see him fitting this roster at this point with his skill set and where there are gaps to be filled.

To me the question on Lavoie and the Oilers is whether he has a role on the post season roster or into next year. He’s 4+ years into a pro career and frankly, hasn’t shown a huge progression and maybe that’s shared, partly on him and management. The cupboard of prospects is pretty bare so it might be unfortunate to lose him but I don’t see him having a role on this “win now” edition of the Oilers. He’s a one dimensional, a 5 on 5 offensive focused winger. He doesn’t PK, he doesn’t play centre, he’s not an energy guy. It’s too bad as an AHLer he hasn’t added to his versatility to improve his prospects to fill roster spots. To me he can be replaced in the draft or by farming the NCAA free agent ranks etc.. He’d be a loss but not a big loss if he was waived.

If the club decides he has to be kept, then I think you assign Perry to Bakersfield and hope he doesn’t retire if given that ultimatum. Otherwise if he does, then with elevating Lavoie they have lost their first injury call up (Lavoie or alternately Perry) if and when that happens.

Don't agree with this. Lavoie has not been granted opportunities to succeed here. This not isolated to Lavoie. The org systemically blocks out its own while airlifting in old tired vets as if thats gonna be the answer every year. Never more the Oilers need some young blood and fresh legs in the lineup. Its one reasn why I've been so adamantly against just stocking the shelves with Connor Brown, Perry, Arvidsson, Skinner. These are just placeholders here, old ones that just block out spots from prospects players who even if they earn it are not granted it.

 

[Fourier]

Yes, it was a reference to a statement made of Lavoie by another poster.

Lavoie won’t make it through waivers, agreed, unless management decides to “hide” him for future needs, because I don’t see him fitting this roster at this point with his skill set and where there are gaps to be filled.

To me the question on Lavoie and the Oilers is whether he has a role on the post season roster or into next year. He’s 4+ years into a pro career and frankly, hasn’t shown a huge progression and maybe that’s shared, partly on him and management. The cupboard of prospects is pretty bare so it might be unfortunate to lose him but I don’t see him having a role on this “win now” edition of the Oilers. He’s a one dimensional, a 5 on 5 offensive focused winger. He doesn’t PK, he doesn’t play centre, he’s not an energy guy. It’s too bad as an AHLer he hasn’t added to his versatility to improve his prospects to fill roster spots. To me he can be replaced in the draft or by farming the NCAA free agent ranks etc.. He’d be a loss but not a big loss if he was waived.

If the club decides he has to be kept, then I think you assign Perry to Bakersfield and hope he doesn’t retire if given that ultimatum. Otherwise if he does, then with elevating Lavoie they have lost their first injury call up (Lavoie or alternately Perry) if and when that happens.

I actually disagree that he has not shown progression. Top 10 in the AHL in goal scoring is progression in itself, but he has improved his overall game significantly. He's added a real physical dimension to his game and is excellent at puck control for his age.

The Oilers don't need another center they already have multiple options in that position. They do however, have a shortage of scoring wingers in the prospect pool. Lavoie is by far the best and next year they may well need a chaep one.

 

[brentashton]

I actually disagree that he has not shown progression. Top 10 in the AHL in goal scoring is progression in itself, but he has improved his overall game significantly. He's added a real physical dimension to his game and is excellent at puck control for his age.

The Oilers don't need another center they already have multiple options in that position. They do however, have a shortage of scoring wingers in the prospect pool. Lavoie is by far the best and next year they may well need a chaep one.

I don’t disagree with the latter part of this. I said much the same in my earlier note. However, he adds nothing for this year to the top 13 which is what I make this year’s roster decisions on. But if he ends up being a waiver casualty I don’t think he’s impossible to find a replacement for down the road.

In trying to maintain balance, 2 options: waive Perry, hold Lavoie and hope for the best on the bottom 6 limited minutes or, use his “value” and move him for a defence upgrade (which still impacts your forward call up depth)..

 

[brentashton]

Don't agree with this. Lavoie has not been granted opportunities to succeed here. This not isolated to Lavoie. The org systemically blocks out its own while airlifting in old tired vets as if thats gonna be the answer every year. Never more the Oilers need some young blood and fresh legs in the lineup. Its one reasn why I've been so adamantly against just stocking the shelves with Connor Brown, Perry, Arvidsson, Skinner. These are just placeholders here, old ones that just block out spots from prospects players who even if they earn it are not granted it.

Are you ok with him playing limited minutes on the 4th line? Because I don’t see him displacing anyone and playing top 6 or fulfilling a role on the 3rd line, given his skill set. I think the only other option is what I’ve said a few times now, waive CP and run him on the 4th, with the ability to move up if injuries happen.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Are you ok with him playing limited minutes on the 4th line? Because I don’t see him displacing anyone and playing top 6 or fulfilling a role on the 3rd line, given his skill set. I think the only other option is what I’ve said a few times now, waive CP and run him on the 4th, with the ability to move up if injuries happen.

Look what Dallas did inserting youngsters in the topsix. I would rather have Lavoie and Savoie in there in topsix, and thrown into it then have old vets brought in just to placehold those one more year. With Savoie particularly, or Philp I would be giving those players extra minutes and rotating them in at least occasionally in topsix. I woud be stressing those players who I feel could bring more this season through another long 82 games.

This team should be good enough to carry some younger players and ought to. Look at what the kidline did in playoffs in 90. Team doesn't win the cup without them or Ranford.

I actually disagree that he has not shown progression. Top 10 in the AHL in goal scoring is progression in itself, but he has improved his overall game significantly. He's added a real physical dimension to his game and is excellent at puck control for his age.

The Oilers don't need another center they already have multiple options in that position. They do however, have a shortage of scoring wingers in the prospect pool. Lavoie is by far the best and next year they may well need a chaep one.

I've really liked Lavoie and I don't see him being out of place. This is what development looks like to me. The winning goal he scored the other game was brilliant but also using his size as instructed. Player is young but plays with balls and has scoring skills. Would hate to lose this player.

 

[brentashton]

Look what Dallas did inserting youngsters in the topsix. I would rather have Lavoie and Savoie in there in topsix, and thrown into it then have old vets brought in just to placehold those one more year. With Savoie particularly, or Philp I would be giving those players extra minutes and rotating them in at least occasionally in topsix. I woud be stressing those players who I feel could bring more this season through another long 82 games.

This team should be good enough to carry some younger players and ought to. Look at what the kidline did in playoffs in 90. Team doesn't win the cup without them or Ranford.

Yes, Dallas has done very well integrating Stankhoven, Johnston, Bourque et.al. in to their roster. Actually, quite impressive. Comparing the Oilers of today with most other teams is not exactly a like for like comparison in many cases though. Very few have the roster make up like Edmonton does with 2 of the world’s top 4-5 players nor the immense pressure to win a championship. I wouldn’t use Dallas as a comparable. What it did for Dallas though is escalate and speed up their rejuvenation of their roster towards becoming a full on contender again. I still don’t put them in the same category as the Oilers as a SC a contender (but they are very good and anything is possible). They are “next tier” contender for my thinking.

 

[oXo Cube]

Are you ok with him playing limited minutes on the 4th line? Because I don’t see him displacing anyone and playing top 6 or fulfilling a role on the 3rd line, given his skill set. I think the only other option is what I’ve said a few times now, waive CP and run him on the 4th, with the ability to move up if injuries happen.

Don't see why we shouldn't be. Lavoie has played over 200 AHL games already and shown he is a high end scorer at that level. He may or may not be good enough for the NHL but there isn't much of anything left for him to learn or prove in Bakersfield.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yes, Dallas has done very well integrating Stankhoven, Johnston, Bourque et.al. in to their roster. Actually, quite impressive. Comparing the Oilers of today with most other teams is not exactly a like for like comparison in many cases though. Very few have the roster make up like Edmonton does with 2 of the world’s top 4-5 players nor the immense pressure to win a championship. I wouldn’t use Dallas as a comparable. What it did for Dallas though is escalate and speed up their rejuvenation of their roster towards becoming a full on contender again. I still don’t put them in the same category as the Oilers as a SC a contender (but they are very good and anything is possible). They are “next tier” contender for my thinking.

Not sure how you disagree really. The teams makeups are somewhat similar both being primarily older teams. But its my view that if Dalls just had McD and we had say Benn and Sequin Dallas would have won the cup last year.

Not sure if I'm getting my point across the plate but the Oilers in my view suffered from not getting more of their jets icetime and ready to play. McLeod could have been further along and Holloway and Broberg as well. Oilers org often guilty of not giving their prospects enough landing runway. Would have been huge to have that. Dallas wouldn't have made it out of the first round without giving their young prospects such huge roles. They carried the team.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Regarding Philps, I think my thoughts from the Rumors thread still ring true.

I'm curious to see how they handle Philp. Even though he's had a great camp, Ryan's also been strong in his own right. Hamblin also hasn't been bad.

Imo the best approach is sending him down and giving him big minutes in Bakersfield for 6 weeks or so to get his legs back to withstand the grind of the entire season. Limited minutes on the 4th line or in the PB don't help with that.

In any case, he's done an outstanding job making me forget about McLeod and I'm nowhere as concerned about an injury to Henrique sinking the bottom 6.

And I'm still not seeing a good argument against this.

He's had a great camp, but he hasn't played in a year. That's not something you can brush aside or overlook, He needs to get used to the regular season grind or his game's going to plateau or regress as the year goes on, That means getting him 16+ minutes in b2b like the AHL offers, not 10 min with a healthy helping of PB time like he will see with the Oil. The fact he doesn't require waivers should make this a slam dunk.


With both Ryan and Perry this team can't go into the season with only 12 forwards, it'd be asinine. Lavoie is the one waiver-eligible forward that has earned his way onto the team, and he's a natural tag team partner for Perry with his size and talent. There's no reason to overthink this.


Also keep in mind, Ryan is 37 and last year was the first time since the covid year Henrique played a full season; while Perry is 39, and Arvidsson has a history of health issues. The former means Philps (and likely Hamblin too) is near guaranteed a proper shot at some point, while the latter means they shouldn't be quick to move on from Lavoie.

 

[MessierII]

Regarding Philps, I think my thoughts from the Rumors thread still ring true.


And I'm still not seeing a good argument against this.

He's had a great camp, but he hasn't played in a year. That's not something you can brush aside or overlook, He needs to get used to the regular season grind or his game's going to plateau or regress as the year goes on, That means getting him 16+ minutes in b2b like the AHL offers, not 10 min with a healthy helping of PB time like he will see with the Oil. The fact he doesn't require waivers should make this a slam dunk.


With both Ryan and Perry this team can't go into the season with only 12 forwards, it'd be asinine. Lavoie is the one waiver-eligible forward that has earned his way onto the team, and he's a natural tag team partner for Perry with his size and talent. There's no reason to overthink this.


Also keep in mind, Ryan is 37 and last year was the first time since the covid year Henrique played a full season; while Perry is 39, and Arvidsson has a history of health issues. The former means Philps (and likely Hamblin too) is near guaranteed a proper shot at some point, while the latter means they shouldn't be quick to move on from Lavoie.

I agree with this take. Keep Lavoie and Perry up. Send Philip down to start. He will get his chance it doesn’t have to be right now. If Ryan had a bad camp I could see an argument for keeping Philip up but Ryan has looked unreal. Guy is a very smart hockey player but he will break down physically at some point. Guys like Arvidsson too. Lavoie starting on the 4th line is fine same with Philip starting in Bakersfield. It’s a long season those guys will get their looks.

 

[Jarvi]

What are you getting uptight about? I’m not arguing for or against waiving Lavoie. I’m saying the club probably will waive him due to wanting to run a short roster and has almost assuredly made a commitment to Perry. If you don’t like that then call up Bowman and call him a muppet.

By the way your the one making the claims that the Lavoie’s of the world get regularly claimed off contenders. I just said I can’t think of any so unless you can your statement is incorrect. Perhaps it isn’t. I just can’t think of any examples that agree with your statement.

Lavoie to me seems blocked and isn’t outplaying Podkolzin who also is seeing duty on the PK. Perry almost assuredly has a commitment and will only be replaced through injury or Lavoie drastically outplaying him in the next few games. Philp is competing for the 4C spot and let’s say they give it to him. Ryan probably displaces Perry meaning Lavoie has to beat out not only Perry but Ryan as well in this instance which won’t happen given Ryan’s ability to play right shot C if needed and his prowess on the PK.

The team decides to run only 12 F, so where does Lavoie fit then? That’s all I’m saying. No need to get hostile.

So looks like Lavoie was claimed and not every team has a couple players like him. And from a well run org too, obviously they saw more in him than anyone should see in Corey Perry.

Ridiculous. We lost a good asset for nothing thanks to stupid decisions, AGAIN.

 

[K1984]

So looks like Lavoie was claimed and not every team has a couple players like him. And from a well run org too, obviously they saw more in him than anyone should see in Corey Perry.

Ridiculous. We lost a good asset for nothing thanks to stupid decisions, AGAIN.

A well run org that is panic plucking guys off the waiver heap as they stare up at a thin forward group, with both of their two remaining catalysts being massive band aids. Oh, and that well run org legitimately has zero prospects or players of any quality knocking at the door.

The Golden Knights did what they had to do to get their Cup, but let's not pretend this is 2022-23. They have a thin group up front, and absolutely nobody coming up. Teams that don't have the answers internally make waiver claims this time of year, and that's what they've done. They're in a panic state.

 

[Jarvi]

A well run org that is panic plucking guys off the waiver heap as they stare up at a thin forward group, with both of their two remaining catalysts being massive band aids. Oh, and that well run org legitimately has zero prospects or players of any quality knocking at the door.

The Golden Knights did what they had to do to get their Cup, but let's not pretend this is 2022-23. They have a thin group up front, and absolutely nobody coming up. Teams that don't have the answers internally make waiver claims this time of year, and that's what they've done. They're in a panic state.

Yeah, doesn't matter. They have a cup this decade and we don't, despite having 2 top 5 players. They are run better than us until we prove otherwise.

 

[K1984]

Yeah, doesn't matter. They have a cup this decade and we don't, despite having 2 top 5 players. They are run better than us until we prove otherwise.

Maybe one day we'll be in a position where we have to pluck mediocre (generously) players off waivers to fill out a shitty roster because we sold the farm to win a cup.

Until then, I'm comfortable being in a position where a player of Lavoie's quality isn't good enough to make the team.

 

[Jarvi]

Maybe one day we'll be in a position where we have to pluck mediocre (generously) players off waivers to fill out a shitty roster because we sold the farm to win a cup.

Until then, I'm comfortable being in a position where a player of Lavoie's quality isn't good enough to make the team.

Well many of you guys (not sure you specifically) said "Every team has a couple Lavoie's! He won't get claimed" now that has been proven wrong, next we get to wait and see if he proves to be more valuable than Perry this year because there is no doubt that even as an AHL guy he has more value longterm because Perry is older than dirt.

You can say that he isnt quality enough to make the roster, but it doesn't make it true. How many good players have we lost for little to nothing? I'm gonna guess that history has repeated and we will regret this like those other moves and that Lavoie should have made the team. Time will tell, but when you have an org that just lost its two best prospects and hasn't won it all with 2 top 5 players, I'm not gonna assume every move they make is the correct one.