GDT: preseason game 3 - the second preseason game

[CandyCanes]

the young centers were the highlight of the team. Robidas needs to mass but his motor is awesome. He'll be the next Rod man crush.

First line Martinook level of man crush?

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Still boggles my mind we won the freaking Jennings trophy with Cole/Smith anchoring the bottom pair. Smith was good for like 1 unforced turnover a period. Our forwards are right up there with Boston's and dare I say New York's for consistent backchecking. Slavin was there too.

Both of those guys actually received pay raises after this season. Notoriously cap-strapped Tampa Bay gave Ian Cole $3M this year. Heck, Brendan Smith got two years from New Jersey! I wouldn’t be surprised if that Jennings Trophy helped Cole and Smith in UFA.

 

[ndp]

What What are people’s thoughts on Chatfield these two games?

Defense version of Martinook, great AHL depth on a contender.

I’ve seen a lot of Twitter folks penciling CDH in on the third pair, gotta think his health is still a bit of a question mark right? 29, 44 and 61 GP the past three seasons. I know Rod likes to have a vet to anchor the 3rd pairing but I just don’t have a ton of faith in him. If CDH can stay healthy and play 60+ games I would consider him and Cole a wash.

CDH at least knows how to stay out of the box, I guess.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

First line Martinook level of man crush?

He is a Robidas so it’ll be a first pair level crush

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Defense version of Martinook, great AHL depth on a contender.

I’ve seen a lot of Twitter folks penciling CDH in on the third pair, gotta think his health is still a bit of a question mark right? 29, 44 and 61 GP the past three seasons. I know Rod likes to have a vet to anchor the 3rd pairing but I just don’t have a ton of faith in him. If CDH can stay healthy and play 60+ games I would consider him and Cole a wash.

CDH at least knows how to stay out of the box, I guess.

Thanks. Kind of my view of him. He just looks chaotic and on the edge of out of controlled to me, opposite of "poised". One play last night he made a nice play going behind the net at speed to retrieve the puck and shield the Florida forward off. But then as he skated it up the side along the boards, he got indecisive and didn't pass or make a move and basically skated right into a Florida forward leading to a turn-over. Another icing play he had he seemed to rush it when he had more time. I saw similar things last game.

I guess that's why he's a #7/AHL depth guy, but I'm not sure I'd want to count on him playing regular minutes. Granted, it's a very small sample size of a couple of pre-season games (and only part of the 2nd game) and I know nothing of what has gone on in camp so admittedly, it's an uninformed view on my part.

CDH, Coghlan, and Dronov conversely, seemed much more poised and looked much more like NHL material than Chatfield to me. I agree with you on CDH, that staying healthy will be the key and maybe limited minutes on the 3rd pairing would help there.

Right now, I think I'd be fine with:

Slavin-Burns
Skjei-Pesce
CDH-Coghlan

And either Chatfield or Dronov, then trade Bear. I know Dronov is an extreme long shot, but if he continues to show the same thing, maybe there's a small chance of him sticking, even though I doubt it. I get that the Canes guaranteed Chatfield's NHL salary next year, so that's an indication that they think he'll be at least a #7.

 

[Unsustainable]

Coglan has made the case he should be on the team for sure.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I think people should also prepare themselves for the very real possibility that we just roll with Bear and Coghlan is the 7... The team won't put as much stock into preseason as us.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I mean idk - we’re talking about a guy a year younger than Bear who put up similar stats last year. This isn’t a Chatfield or a Lane Pederson-type situation where he was just a throw-in - Coghlan was a full-time NHLer last year and hasn’t played a game in the AHL since 19-20. The notion that he’d win the #6 job isn’t out of left field.

I’d expect a Coghlan-Bear bottom pair before I’d expect Coghlan to be the 7D to start the year. But who knows.

 

[Svechhammer]

Coghlan making the team would send what was already a terrible trade for Vegas into next level awfulness. Remember, they threw in Coghlan as a sweetener in the Patches for literally nothing trade. You're talking about the possibility of 2 everyday players for literally nothing in an offseason trade.

Oof

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I think the Bear situation is an ongoing cat-and-mouse game with Vancouver, who have one of the worst right-handed groups of any playoff hopeful in the league. The Canes have plenty of cap room after LTIR to sign De Haan and even run 8 defensemen. If Bear plays well to start the year on a hypothetical Coghlan-Bear pairing, then that's even more leverage to play against Vancouver.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think people should also prepare themselves for the very real possibility that we just roll with Bear and Coghlan is the 7... The team won't put as much stock into preseason as us.

It's the probably outcome. Of course, we don't know how serious they are in trying to trade Bear so I could see either scenario playing out.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Coghlan making the team would send what was already a terrible trade for Vegas into next level awfulness. Remember, they threw in Coghlan as a sweetener in the Patches for literally nothing trade. You're talking about the possibility of 2 everyday players for literally nothing in an offseason trade.

Oof

That's the beauty of the Canes structuring their roster to always have a bunch of expiring contracts every UFA day. They'll have yet more expirings next offseason with Fast (2M)/Pacioretty (7M)/Staal (6M)/Andersen (4.5M)/Raanta (2M)/Kase (1.2M)/Stastny (1.3M). Though I see Pacioretty/Staal/Kase re-upping for a combined lower cap hit, that still means yet more space for future salary dumps, especially because the Canes only have Coghlan as a key RFA.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Coghlan making the team would send what was already a terrible trade for Vegas into next level awfulness. Remember, they threw in Coghlan as a sweetener in the Patches for literally nothing trade. You're talking about the possibility of 2 everyday players for literally nothing in an offseason trade.

Oof

Coghlan played full time in the NHL last year (no AHL time) with 88 games over those two seasons. He's 2 years younger than Chatfield who has minimal NHL experience. Makes sense that he might have the upper hand on the 6/7 D spot.

 

[Svechhammer]

I will say, it did look like the team was trying to get an extended look of Coghlan running PPQB during the Tampa game. All things being equal, I could see the team going with him on the 3rd pair because of the offensive upside to play the role we expected TDA to play last year (3rd pair offensive focused d-man who isn't terrible defensively and will step in to run point when we are on the PP).

Bear-Coghlan could be a really good pair. But I think we'll keep deHaan around as veteran presence just in case they're in over their head. Not sure what happens with Chatfield.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Coghlan making the team would send what was already a terrible trade for Vegas into next level awfulness. Remember, they threw in Coghlan as a sweetener in the Patches for literally nothing trade. You're talking about the possibility of 2 everyday players for literally nothing in an offseason trade.

Oof

I seriously doubt they’ll lose any sleep over it. Smith is a hidden component of their equation; Pacioretty needed to go to bring him back. They couldn’t make both work largely because of the Eichel trade. They wouldn’t undo that just to avoid “losing” a Pacioretty trade.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I seriously doubt they’ll lose any sleep over it. Smith is a hidden component of their equation; Pacioretty needed to go to bring him back. They couldn’t make both work largely because of the Eichel trade. They wouldn’t undo that just to avoid “losing” a Pacioretty trade.

Yes. Losing a Pacioretty trade was the price that Vegas was willing to accept in order to get their long-coveted number one center. Vegas also wanted to keep their key depth players like Reilly Smith, Marchessault, and Nic Roy. Again, the big thing is that Carolina was the only contending team that both wasn't chasing Gaudreau and had the cap space to eat the entire Pacioretty contract. That's why the Canes got him for nothing.

 

[Svechhammer]

I seriously doubt they’ll lose any sleep over it. Smith is a hidden component of their equation; Pacioretty needed to go to bring him back. They couldn’t make both work largely because of the Eichel trade. They wouldn’t undo that just to avoid “losing” a Pacioretty trade.

Which is fine....

Until you realized they didn't even try to get anything back for getting rid of Patches, who very much still has value in the league. And not only did they not give up value, they gave away a relatively young everyday NHL RHD with decent to good offensive upside to convince a contending team to take on Patches, and got literally nothing in return.

Even if they needed to rid themselves of Pacioretty, they should have gotten something back for him, especially if they were also including an everyday contributing NHL RHD.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Which is fine....

Until you realized they didn't even try to get anything back for getting rid of Patches, who very much still has value in the league. And not only did they not give up value, they gave away a relatively young everyday NHL RHD with decent to good offensive upside to convince a contending team to take on Patches, and got literally nothing in return.

Even if they needed to rid themselves of Pacioretty, they should have gotten something back for him, especially if they were also including an everyday contributing NHL RHD.

That's true, except that Pacioretty had a 10 team no-trade list, likely all full of non-contending clubs with cap space. Carolina was the only contender that had the cap space and simultaneously wasn't chasing the big and shiny UFA toys. That's why Vegas agreed to a pure cap dump.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Which is fine....

Until you realized they didn't even try to get anything back for getting rid of Patches, who very much still has value in the league. And not only did they not give up value, they gave away a relatively young everyday NHL RHD with decent to good offensive upside to convince a contending team to take on Patches, and got literally nothing in return.

Even if they needed to rid themselves of Pacioretty, they should have gotten something back for him, especially if they were also including an everyday contributing NHL RHD.

I don’t think you can say that with certainty. Oliver Bjorkstrand, a better asset all around, went for trivial positive value. Moving $7 mil at that moment most likely was a pita, particularly with his trade protection.

The larger point I’m getting at is that trades aren’t zero sum. If they were, the Adam Fox deal would be one of the worst in recent memory. We know it isn’t. This one may turn out to be a good trade for the Canes, but that says nothing about Vegas. They’re two independent evaluations.

 

[Svechhammer]

I don’t think you can say that with certainty. Oliver Bjorkstrand, a better asset all around, went for trivial positive value. Moving $7 mil at that moment most likely was a pita, particularly with his trade protection.

The larger point I’m getting at is that trades aren’t zero sum. If they were, the Adam Fox deal would be one of the worst in recent memory. We know it isn’t. This one may turn out to be a good trade for the Canes, but that says nothing about Vegas. They’re two independent evaluations.

At least we got something for Fox

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I don’t think you can say that with certainty. Oliver Bjorkstrand, a better asset all around, went for trivial positive value. Moving $7 mil at that moment most likely was a pita, particularly with his trade protection.

The larger point I’m getting at is that trades aren’t zero sum. If they were, the Adam Fox deal would be one of the worst in recent memory. We know it isn’t. This one may turn out to be a good trade for the Canes, but that says nothing about Vegas. They’re two independent evaluations.

No-trade lists often have an effect of limiting the return, especially because it is normal for bad teams to have cap space but not good teams. Part of the reason that Bjorkstrand even received a draft pick return at all is because he did not have a no-trade list and therefore could be traded to a not-good team with space.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I don’t think you can say that with certainty. Oliver Bjorkstrand, a better asset all around, went for trivial positive value. Moving $7 mil at that moment most likely was a pita, particularly with his trade protection.

The larger point I’m getting at is that trades aren’t zero sum. If they were, the Adam Fox deal would be one of the worst in recent memory. We know it isn’t. This one may turn out to be a good trade for the Canes, but that says nothing about Vegas. They’re two independent evaluations.

The reason why people view the Fox and Pacioretty trades differently is because Fox essentially demanded a trade only to the Rangers. Pacioretty didn't want to leave Vegas. What too many ignore in the Pacioretty situation is the NTC. How many teams that were not on his no-trade list both had cap space and were not chasing the UFA market? Probably only Carolina.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Vancouver will need to shed cap to make Bear work. They have about 749k of cap after LTIR. Waving a defender will give them another 750-800lk. They still need 700k or so. I doubt JR wants to go into the season with only one 1 extra.

 

[LakeLivin]

I wasn't able to watch at all, but after the game Tripp said Lajoie looked good. A lot of speculation about Chatfield, but given our lack of depth on the left side, at some point should we be talking about the possibility of Lajoie on his natural side this season more so than the possibility of Chatfield playing his off side?

Anyone see enough of the game to provide informed feedback on how Lajoie looked last night?

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I havent seen anything from Lajoie to show that he is a real threat for a roster spot.