my phrasing could have been better. His best run of play last year came in sheltered minutes when he and Holl were together. His pairings with Petry and Seider were both very bad.
GDT: Preseason Game 2: Red Wings vs chicago 9/27/24 7:00 pm et
- Thread starter MIKELGRW
- Start date
my phrasing could have been better. His best run of play last year came in sheltered minutes when he and Holl were together. His pairings with Petry and Seider were both very bad.
- Mar 4, 2004
- 29,776
- 29,468
ShanahanMan
Registered User
Nut Upstrom
You dirty dog!
I dont think that anyone is really down on him, most seem to have high hopes that he'll develop into something special. Seems one of those rare instances where he was drafted as a bit of a long term project and fans are, uncharacteristically, being patient in the hopes he'll reach his potential. I suppose there are enough other prospects commanding the spotlight and frustrations of fans so Wallinder is flying a bit under the radar.
I liked what I saw in this game, but I was not watching all that intently.
SantosHalper
Get off my lawn
You're not the only one, i said in 2020 after the draft that Wings just got one of the biggest steals in that draft. I had Wallinder going in the 1st round, #20 overall but luckily for us, a bunch of GMs didn't see the forrest from the trees. Wallinder has had the tools to become a 1st pair D in NHL but he's been a long term project from day 1. I remember that i said, it is going to take 5-6 years before he plays his first NHL game. So far he's been on that track, this season in a big role in GR and next season he gets his first games. And starts in Detroit 2026-27.
Nut Upstrom
You dirty dog!
Hoping you're right. A strong showing in these preseason games would be a nice step in that direction for him.
jkutswings
hot piss hockey
- Jul 10, 2014
- 11,569
- 9,616
ricky0034
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2010
- 15,473
- 7,941
that would make a lot more sense if I didn't see people also arguing that a Chiarot-Seider pairing would be fine
Last season and year before. Quality of competition is slightly higher last season. Chiarot was not sheltered.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
I had Wallinder at #14 if I remember right. For people that constantly plead with them to take homerun cuts, Wallinder's skating and size are a legitimate homerun cut out of management. Yes, he was going to take a lot of work, but that is on us surrounding him. I think he also is a guy that needs a Mo and Edvinsson established on the roster so he can transition with more control. Some of our guys failing over the last while did come up in a very tough environment that wasn't too forgiving while they tried to figure out the NHL. Important to have some decent building blocks to help slot guys in the right roles and the right development environment. Very important year for him though to prove trustworthy in his own end as that is his likely role for this organization.
Dan Watson should explain to Tuomisto, Buium, and Wallinder being a big body PK guy is important to filling out this future roster.
Dan Watson should explain to Tuomisto, Buium, and Wallinder being a big body PK guy is important to filling out this future roster.
- Mar 4, 2004
- 29,776
- 29,468
- Mar 4, 2004
- 29,776
- 29,468
You think being on the PK and playing the most ES minutes that Chiarot isn't out against tough competition?
I agree he's being overutilized relative to his abilities, but he's often the least bad option. Maatta hasn't averaged over 20 minutes since his second season in the league. There's a reason for that. I like Maatta but he's being utilized about where he should be.
Oddbob
Registered User
- Jan 21, 2016
- 16,677
- 11,229
This is my feeling. He wasn't as bad as the first season so it looks like he played a lot better. People keep saying plays die on Maatta's stick, yet Chiarot skates it over the blueline and dumps it in to the other zone to no one way more.
newfy
Registered User
- Jul 28, 2010
- 14,987
- 8,764
norrisnick
The best...
- Apr 14, 2005
- 31,224
- 16,566
And dobber shows a significant drop.
You can make it a semantic minigame if you want. The minutes he was playing in '22-'23 were harder than the minutes he was playing in '23-'24. Call it sheltered, call it adjusting difficulty to ability, call it whatever. His play improved, when the level of his competition decreased.
Sentinel
Registered User
ShanahanMan
Registered User
The only ones sheltered there are (Holl), Maatta and Ghost. And even with the Maatta's QoC, he didn't play better than Chiarot.
norrisnick
The best...
- Apr 14, 2005
- 31,224
- 16,566
The problem for finding a Seider partner is that his partner gets exposed to the same pressure Seider faces. Toughest QofC of any defenseman in the league, a No. 1 pair that starts in its d-zone more than any other No. 1 pair in the league, and unless playing with Larkin-Raymond a pair that gets what might be the league's least capable forwards of helping them defend in their own zone and move the puck out. It's a recipe for almost any Seider partner to be exposed and limits Seider's ability to contribute offensively.
Maatta would be exposed too. He's learned to be very crafty and efficient to compensate for his lack of strength and only average skating, but last year he had more give-aways than Chiarot despite playing five fewer games and almost four minutes per game less TOI vs. lesser competition. Neither is that challenging Seider environment a good idea for a D that is essentially a rookie. Even Seider had an easier NHL introduction his rookie year, with about 50/50 zone usage and an experienced pair behind him anchored by Hronek. As Seider has established himself, teams have figured out one of the keys to beating Detroit is to swarm him on the forecheck, forcing him to move the puck to a partner inevitably less capable than he is, or to forwards that if not named Larkin/Raymond are likely to screw up or just be invisible. It means Seider and his partner spend most of their shifts in their own zone,, often looking for a shift change when the puck is finally moved up-ice.
A whole bunch of things have to improve and will improve to make life easier for Seider and Partner X. Probably the most important is finding a good second pair that can take some of the heat off. Edvinsson has a great chance to be part of that second pair because he is so good defensively. Give him a couple years to establish himself and become more confident with the puck and the Wings will have the needed two-way anchors of a very good top four, almost regardless of who their partners are or what they bring. They can be pure D-zone capable vets getting 15-20 points a year or offensive wizards like ASP. The forward group is going to improve as solid two-way guys like Kasper, Danielson, Mazur, MBN become regulars. But for now, Seider's partner is going to be somewhat of a sacrificial lamb and Chiarot is the best candidate for that role.
Maatta would be exposed too. He's learned to be very crafty and efficient to compensate for his lack of strength and only average skating, but last year he had more give-aways than Chiarot despite playing five fewer games and almost four minutes per game less TOI vs. lesser competition. Neither is that challenging Seider environment a good idea for a D that is essentially a rookie. Even Seider had an easier NHL introduction his rookie year, with about 50/50 zone usage and an experienced pair behind him anchored by Hronek. As Seider has established himself, teams have figured out one of the keys to beating Detroit is to swarm him on the forecheck, forcing him to move the puck to a partner inevitably less capable than he is, or to forwards that if not named Larkin/Raymond are likely to screw up or just be invisible. It means Seider and his partner spend most of their shifts in their own zone,, often looking for a shift change when the puck is finally moved up-ice.
A whole bunch of things have to improve and will improve to make life easier for Seider and Partner X. Probably the most important is finding a good second pair that can take some of the heat off. Edvinsson has a great chance to be part of that second pair because he is so good defensively. Give him a couple years to establish himself and become more confident with the puck and the Wings will have the needed two-way anchors of a very good top four, almost regardless of who their partners are or what they bring. They can be pure D-zone capable vets getting 15-20 points a year or offensive wizards like ASP. The forward group is going to improve as solid two-way guys like Kasper, Danielson, Mazur, MBN become regulars. But for now, Seider's partner is going to be somewhat of a sacrificial lamb and Chiarot is the best candidate for that role.
norrisnick
The best...
- Apr 14, 2005
- 31,224
- 16,566
Guy provides a steady partner for Hronek and the defensive clownshow that is Ghost.
Another guy has never been a steady anything for anyone.
Let's go with that other guy to make Mo's job that much harder...
Another guy has never been a steady anything for anyone.
Let's go with that other guy to make Mo's job that much harder...
minimal
Registered User
- Apr 12, 2024
- 121
- 162
Wow, notably both players that weren't on the top pairing.
Chiarot isn't ideal, but he looked fine down the stretch with Seider last year. Everyone ought to be resigned with seeing how it works out to start this season because there are no other good options right now. Maata is not someone that's going to thrive on the top pairing, nor is he going to necessarily be steady, much less passable.
