Predators Hockey Discussion 22-23

[Porter Stoutheart]

Most "experts" had Boston as at best or out of the playoffs to start the season, and had Dallas completely out of the top 8.

THN Power Rankings: Pre-Season

Which teams moved up or down after last season's playoffs and off-season? Find out in the first power rankings of the season.

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And.... one should not underestimate the value of the coaching changes in those cases.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

Most "experts" had Boston as at best or out of the playoffs to start the season, and had Dallas completely out of the top 8.

THN Power Rankings: Pre-Season

Which teams moved up or down after last season's playoffs and off-season? Find out in the first power rankings of the season.

thehockeynews.com

And.... one should not underestimate the value of the coaching changes in those cases.

I guess. I mean teams exceed expectations, but even looking at those 2 examples, the roster's are better than ours. Boston found a youth elixir for it's top 6 centers and one of those came back for a sweet heart deal. Dallas has a new young core pulling it's weight now and the old guys are jumping in with them.

I'll also say, I think we did exceed expectations last year. That was what it looks like for us being better than we really should have been. I'd like to see the percentage of teams that have ever experienced that number of players having likely a career year or equivalent to their career year simultaneously.

Just typing this, it's funny thinking about how many different reasons as a collective group there have been given to why this team hasn't been successful. The coach, the system, too soft, too hard, archaic style, the players aren't good enough, the top players haven't been good enough, the supporting cast isn't deep enough, the GM isn't good at drafting forwards, the contracts are too long, the culture is too easy.

 

[Viqsi]

Maybe it's just the copium talking but while I think the hope for this season is mostly lost I really don't think this roster is completely unsalvageable. The roster still has a perennial Vezina candidate, a perennial Norris candidate, and a top 20-30 winger to build around. Couple that with a top ten prospect pool that should improve even more this offseason. It will however take some good GMing to make it work. I've always been a Poile defender and I still think he could maybe pull it off, but I think he's so desperate to win a Cup before he retires that he's not trusting the process enough. I think we need someone like Yzerman to come in and implement a longterm plan and stick to it without trying to make quick fixes like the McDonagh trade. Maybe Poile can shift his mindset, but otherwise I'm content to see him go.

For as much talk as there is of needing high draft picks to make an elite team the Bruins disprove that. They haven't drafted above 13th since 2011 and their top homegrown players were drafted at 14th overall, 25th overall, 45th overall, and 71st overall. They have however done a great job pretty much elsewhere including their coaching moves.

At this point my hope is for him to ultimately shift to President of Hockey Ops full time and have someone else take over GM duties. Timing depends on whether or not he really is about to start making Team Killing Moves. So far I haven't seen any, although there have been a few ugly mistakes.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

At this point my hope is for him to ultimately shift to President of Hockey Ops full time and have someone else take over GM duties. Timing depends on whether or not he really is about to start making Team Killing Moves. So far I haven't seen any, although there have been a few ugly mistakes.

If the plan is to get Trotz in as a successor, then maybe now's a good time to do it. Give Hynes his walking papers and Trotz can interim while starting to transition into GM duties (and get a very thorough understanding of what he's working with) or give Taylor the run of the season behind the bench and make Trotz special assistant to the GM or something.

Would like to try to trade Granlund and take back as short-term cap balancing contracts as we can. Also hate to say it, because I actually like him and the Turris buyout cost us, but just bite the bullet and buy out Johansen. Can't justify having Cap issues and paying a guy $8M a year to put up .5 PPG. We'll eat $2.6M for 2 additional years, but clearing those two guys at least gives us some flexibility (~$8M-$10M) to make moves, whether it's bringing in new guys or selling and retaining (if the new GM is given such flexibility) or eating contracts for assets, etc...

And to add to my list of unpopular ideas, I'd like for them to reassess the captaincy. Josi's fantastic and a Pred lifer, but there have been some disturbing trends in how we play, how the team buys in, how resilient we are, across multiple coaches, many player departures, etc... and the "country club" started and persisted under his captaincy. Let him do his run n'gun thing without further burden, maybe give the C to the guy with multiple Cup rings, or just rotate it for a bit across some combo of McDonagh, Sizzler, Forsberg, Ekholm until the new guy emerges.

 

[ShagDaddy]

I’m probably in the minority but I don’t want Trotz as the GM. I want the owners to find an assistant GM from an organization that has built their teams to be Stanley Cup contenders and bring them in.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

I’m probably in the minority but I don’t want Trotz as the GM. I want the owners to find an assistant GM from an organization that has built their teams to be Stanley Cup contenders and bring them in.

Exactly this.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Who knows how Trotz would work as GM but he seems like he’d just be a continuation of the Poile philosophy.

 

[Byrddog]

Who knows how Trotz would work as GM but he seems like he’d just be a continuation of the Poile philosophy.

Unless something has changed in the last three weeks Trotz wants to coach a Cup ready team. Not sure he would even consider being a GM. It’s not going to be long until the firings start. One would think if Poile is going to be fired it would be before trade deadline. Then again Hynes could be let go at the same time. It would make sense new GM chooses his coach . Could this he why Hynes has not been fired????? Hmmmm

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I’m probably in the minority but I don’t want Trotz as the GM. I want the owners to find an assistant GM from an organization that has built their teams to be Stanley Cup contenders and bring them in.

There is a lot of praise around the league for McFarland in Colorado. And I believe for Ferguson in Boston… even though he wasn’t entirely successful in Toronto he has paid enough extra dues and some think he’s more ready now.

I agree with seeking this fresh blood. And past that I would kind of prefer if they didn’t have some shadow of President Poile hanging over them. If he could just full retire I’d prefer that.

Nichol does get praise too… maybe just needs a few more reps first.

 

[herzausstein]

I guess. I mean teams exceed expectations, but even looking at those 2 examples, the roster's are better than ours. Boston found a youth elixir for it's top 6 centers and one of those came back for a sweet heart deal. Dallas has a new young core pulling it's weight now and the old guys are jumping in with them.

I'll also say, I think we did exceed expectations last year. That was what it looks like for us being better than we really should have been. I'd like to see the percentage of teams that have ever experienced that number of players having likely a career year or equivalent to their career year simultaneously.

Just typing this, it's funny thinking about how many different reasons as a collective group there have been given to why this team hasn't been successful. The coach, the system, too soft, too hard, archaic style, the players aren't good enough, the top players haven't been good enough, the supporting cast isn't deep enough, the GM isn't good at drafting forwards, the contracts are too long, the culture is too easy.

I honestly never expected krejci to play as well as he has. Didnt play in the nhl last season and is 36.

 

[Armourboy]

I like Trotz, as a coach. He doesn't have any experience in being an actual GM and I'd prefer his first stab at it not to be with us.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

And to add to my list of unpopular ideas, I'd like for them to reassess the captaincy. Josi's fantastic and a Pred lifer, but there have been some disturbing trends in how we play, how the team buys in, how resilient we are, across multiple coaches, many player departures, etc... and the "country club" started and persisted under his captaincy. Let him do his run n'gun thing without further burden, maybe give the C to the guy with multiple Cup rings, or just rotate it for a bit across some combo of McDonagh, Sizzler, Forsberg, Ekholm until the new guy emerges.

It's way past time to start this conversation.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

I miss 303 so much. Really could use his insight these days.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

It's way past time to start this conversation.

Agreed. Though I think it will be like a lot of other conversations around here, we can talk about it, should talk about it. But it won't have a snowball's chance in h-e-double-hockeysticks of ever happening.

I get the sense it's kind of a "Preds culture" thing where they like to let the "leadership core" have a lot of say in things. Poile asks players what they want at the exit interviews every year, he has even referred to situations where he chose to honor their requests for roster decisions. I think you also see it in cases where Josi gets to pick, for example, playing with Ryan Ellis, even when it reaches a point of hurting our eyes. Or when they call a player's meeting and some of the familiar faces get bumped back up in the lineup, etc. The leaders have a voice that is heard.

And for all that Poile has been sniping off some names around the edges of that... Ellis, Arvy, Jarnkrok, Rinne retiring, it doesn't seem like anything is changing. That "country club" label somehow seems to keep creeping back up. Maybe the culture fit better when Weber, Fisher, guys like that were around to lead, but it's hard to feel confident with the current letters, the way things have played out in several seasons lately (not just this one, the collapse down the stretch last year while guys just padded their personal stats, some of the playoff no-shows like against Arizona in the Covid year, or even going back previously against Avs or Jets).

Anyway, it's all well and good for us to wonder about it. But I don't have any expectation anything will change. If we trade Ekholm and Johansen, ok, a couple of rotating As will open up. But nothing changes for Josi and Forsberg, it's kind of implicit in opting to sign them to lifetime contracts as I see it. Those contracts basically came with the letters stitched on also.

 

[PredsV82]

I've avoided this thread so I'm sure this has probably already been said, but now that it's becoming clear that this year isnt happening, Poile has to figure out if hes going to try to dump a lot of vets and go full rebuild or continue the "retool" and try to find some better pieces to go with the expensive vets.

He also has to decide if hes going to keep trying to build a team for Hynes system, or realize that Hynes isnt getting the most out of our players and make a coaching change.

I know what I'd like to see... Clean out the coaching staff, hire Taylor and see if he can make Tomasino, Glass, Kemmell, Svechkov, etc real NHL top 6 players. Probably cant trade anyone but Ekholm without significant salary retention so may have to just play out the string on Joey, Nino, Mac, etc. Probably couldnt trade them anyway but Josi and Forsberg stay to give the fans some players to root for.

And then the radical idea. If Saros could get us a significant haul and we are SURE Askarov is the real deal and will be ready in a couple if years, trade Jusse and sign Lankinen for a couple of years until Askarov can take over.

Wish we werent at this spot but here we are....

 

[Roman Yoshi]

I really want to see Taylor close out this year. He's earned it.

 

[101st_fan]

It's bubble team matchup weekend with the Panthers and Wild and the Preds move back to just 2 games in hand by the end of Sunday. The key is Sunday and the head to head at Minnesota. Win that one and stay in a position where the games in hand keep the wild card race within reach.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Jankowski was waived today

 

[Nhlpowerweek]

Jankowski was waived today

Is forsberg close and playing tomorrow? Cant find any information here

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Jankowski was waived today

Not sure if this was the right move. We probably should have waived Trenin or Novak lest teams be waiting around the waiver wire for Jankowski or Smith.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Unless Milwaukee is begging for him back, this has to be a paper transaction.

 

[glenngineer]

He was playing Parssinen that way when Johansen was being punished and was playing with the fourth line. Then the meeting happened and those two switches places.

I also think the "big guns" were not happy being split up on PP1 and were put back together. If I'm the coach, I would've laughed at them. They weren't producing, units needed to be changed up and sure enough, the PP was coming to life. Then they switch back and PP1 is pretty lifeless. At least PP2 looks alive and like a PP should.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

I also think the "big guns" were not happy being split up on PP1 and were put back together. If I'm the coach, I would've laughed at them. They weren't producing, units needed to be changed up and sure enough, the PP was coming to life. Then they switch back and PP1 is pretty lifeless. At least PP2 looks alive and like a PP should.

I've been pretty busy lately so haven't posted after the weekend but that is definitely a topic I want to discuss. Time for the coach to go back demoting the "big guns" and run the players that are producing. If "losing the room" means the primadonnas are crying then so be it....lose the room.

 

[ShagDaddy]

I've been pretty busy lately so haven't posted after the weekend but that is definitely a topic I want to discuss. Time for the coach to go back demoting the "big guns" and run the players that are producing. If "losing the room" means the primadonnas are crying then so be it....lose the room.

I’ve heard media people say that they can’t put an $8M player in the press box for a game or two. My question is why can’t they?

 

[glenngineer]

I've been pretty busy lately so haven't posted after the weekend but that is definitely a topic I want to discuss. Time for the coach to go back demoting the "big guns" and run the players that are producing. If "losing the room" means the primadonnas are crying then so be it....lose the room.

I've been in the same boat. I've let most of my frustrations be heard via Twitter.

I commented to a friend the other day, rip all the Captain's patches off everyone and say, earn it. Best 3 players from the previous game get to wear the C and A's. Rotate it. Make them earn their ice time. I'd say, best 9 forwards are playing tonight. Show me you want your ice time.

At this point, Hynes is on the verge or has lost the room. It's not like he can lose it anymore. Tired of the vets crying and then not producing.

I saw a tweet the other day saying, name a player who could have their number retired who wasn't a big name/salaried/point producing player but represented what the Preds are. First name I responded with was Yachmenev, as a joke obviously. Then the more I thought about it, it's easily Tootoo. While he wasn't an offensive juggernaut, he could get the team and crowd into the game with bone crushing hits. And here comes the Smith comparison. Tootoo was a better offensive contributor and while he didn't play the PK, he brought value as a true 4th line grinder/energy guy. The arena came alive when he hit the ice. Jeannot is the only one that brings this level of physicality today and even then, he's been reserved most of this year, not sure why.

All this to say, you play if you produce. The way to produce is through hustle.

I’ve heard media people say that they can’t put an $8M player in the press box for a game or two. My question is why can’t they?

Perceived trade value is my guess. You're not going to get a lot for Joey at this point, you put him in the press box, you're sending a 1st or 2nd along with him to move his salary.