Enniskillen
Registered User
- Jan 16, 2021
- 995
- 1,527
Well thought post.I'm a Bruins fan who is intrigued by your situation. Trying to imagine how Id address the problem.
Frankly the problem isn't that the Leafs are bad. they are inconsistent. they're a melange of trash and genuine assets and figuring out who is what is the first step in the challenge. I don't envy the person whose job is to make that call when it comes to the Leafs.
Last couple postseasons I've had an eye on Toronto because Boston hasn't been all that great and I have a thing for lost causes and underdogs.
I'm honestly impressed with some of your depth guys. Knies is starting to settle into a role as a middle 6 leader on the team. Kid's got a good head on his shoulders. I like Edmondton, he looked great at times. The D had its moments despite the lack of high end talent. Woll is good, although I honestly think he's destined for a platoon role.
I also think that while Keefe isn't getting the most out of your stars, he IS finding ways to get a lot out of the young guys, keeping them motivated, getting them playing with energy. The question of Keefw is, does allowing your depth and supporting cast play well over their heads in the postseason, matter more than pandering to the stars or not. It's a question I can't answer honestly because I don't know. Personally I don't believe in pandering to stars and that's flavoring my take on Keefe, who seems to agree.
my opinion is that the players that buy in are playing well under Keefe. He's got the team organized, the structure is good, and they're capable of stealing games, even in the playoffs, even with the key guys NOT buying in. you look at the young guys you see them in a structure that allows them to thrive. That tells me the coach is doing a pretty good job
but you've gotta do something about the stars NOT wanting to play the way Keefe wants them to. If you asked me what the single biggest anchor around the neeck of the Tornoto Maple Leafs is, that's what I'd answer
The Bruins had this issue years and years ago, with Joe Thornton. It seemed like insanity to trade him but it was the best decision the franchise has ever made. Out went Thornton, in came guys who weren't really stars (Marco Sturm, PJ Axelsson) but played well together, behind a single offensive star named Marc Savard. In came Captain Chara. In came a scrub goaltender who'd been playing in Finland and barely cracked an NHL roster, but played with his heart on his sleeve, named Tim Thomas. A guy we'd been developing behind thornton for a few years, a developmental project named Patrice Bergeron, was already here. In came Boychuk and Ference in a trade with Calgary. In came Krejci and Lucic from the draft. The identity of the team took shape and then took over.
Once the team was buying what Julien was selling and got comfortable in their own skins, they started playing way over their talent level, finally won their first playoff series -- against Montreal of all teams -- and it eventually led to a Cup and to a couple other deepish playoff runs. I don't think we get there if we stick to Jumbo Joe Thornton. The tough decision paid off for us. I think the Leafs are in the exact same position, times four. And I don't envy you.
Oh and in the middle of that building process we traded away another guy that our fans honestly thought was a superstar. His name was Phil Kessel and he'd just scored 40 that year. Not to rub salt in any wounds but you might have heard about how that trade turned out for us.
Maybe?Is Berube actually good? He took a team on a Cinderella run but his teams xgf% kept declining every year - very similar resume to Mr. Carlyle.
Is Berube actually good? He took a team on a Cinderella run but his teams xgf% kept declining every year
'Expected'
What a pathetically f***ing stupid thing for stats geeks to care about. Nobody else gives a rat's ass about expected anything, they care about actual results. You know, things that really happen.
Is Berube actually good? He took a team on a Cinderella run but his teams xgf% kept declining every year - very similar resume to Mr. Carlyle.
Appreciate your viewpoint but results don't lie.I'm a Bruins fan who is intrigued by your situation. Trying to imagine how Id address the problem.
Frankly the problem isn't that the Leafs are bad. they are inconsistent. they're a melange of trash and genuine assets and figuring out who is what is the first step in the challenge. I don't envy the person whose job is to make that call when it comes to the Leafs.
Last couple postseasons I've had an eye on Toronto because Boston hasn't been all that great and I have a thing for lost causes and underdogs.
I'm honestly impressed with some of your depth guys. Knies is starting to settle into a role as a middle 6 leader on the team. Kid's got a good head on his shoulders. I like Edmondton, he looked great at times. The D had its moments despite the lack of high end talent. Woll is good, although I honestly think he's destined for a platoon role.
I also think that while Keefe isn't getting the most out of your stars, he IS finding ways to get a lot out of the young guys, keeping them motivated, getting them playing with energy. The question of Keefw is, does allowing your depth and supporting cast play well over their heads in the postseason, matter more than pandering to the stars or not. It's a question I can't answer honestly because I don't know. Personally I don't believe in pandering to stars and that's flavoring my take on Keefe, who seems to agree.
my opinion is that the players that buy in are playing well under Keefe. He's got the team organized, the structure is good, and they're capable of stealing games, even in the playoffs, even with the key guys NOT buying in. you look at the young guys you see them in a structure that allows them to thrive. That tells me the coach is doing a pretty good job
but you've gotta do something about the stars NOT wanting to play the way Keefe wants them to. If you asked me what the single biggest anchor around the neeck of the Tornoto Maple Leafs is, that's what I'd answer
The Bruins had this issue years and years ago, with Joe Thornton. It seemed like insanity to trade him but it was the best decision the franchise has ever made. Out went Thornton, in came guys who weren't really stars (Marco Sturm, PJ Axelsson) but played well together, behind a single offensive star named Marc Savard. In came Captain Chara. In came a scrub goaltender who'd been playing in Finland and barely cracked an NHL roster, but played with his heart on his sleeve, named Tim Thomas. A guy we'd been developing behind thornton for a few years, a developmental project named Patrice Bergeron, was already here. In came Boychuk and Ference in a trade with Calgary. In came Krejci and Lucic from the draft. The identity of the team took shape and then took over.
Once the team was buying what Julien was selling and got comfortable in their own skins, they started playing way over their talent level, finally won their first playoff series -- against Montreal of all teams -- and it eventually led to a Cup and to a couple other deepish playoff runs. I don't think we get there if we stick to Jumbo Joe Thornton. The tough decision paid off for us. I think the Leafs are in the exact same position, times four. And I don't envy you.
Oh and in the middle of that building process we traded away another guy that our fans honestly thought was a superstar. His name was Phil Kessel and he'd just scored 40 that year. Not to rub salt in any wounds but you might have heard about how that trade turned out for us.
That's a fair issue. You'd also have to look at their roster and if it got any better after he left. The alternative is keeping Keefe or going with someone just as bad or inexperienced seems like a similar issue.
I'd push for Todd Nelson but that's probably not happening.
Berube isn't even better than Julien.I'm on board with a coaching change even though I think Keefe is a solid coach who will go on to having a successful career. At some point you need to shake things up, but you also have to worry that you don't take a major step backwards. The Leafs roster hasn't been amazing lately, especially on defense, but Keefe has made it work. Not every coach can.
I don't know if throwing tons of cash at Berube makes sense when he doesn't exactly have an extensive track record. Is he better than Evason or Woodcroft? I don't know. Quenneville is an obviously great coach (who would lead into speed and offense too) but we know his problems.
I'm on board with a coaching change even though I think Keefe is a solid coach who will go on to having a successful career. At some point you need to shake things up, but you also have to worry that you don't take a major step backwards. The Leafs roster hasn't been amazing lately, especially on defense, but Keefe has made it work. Not every coach can.
I don't know if throwing tons of cash at Berube makes sense when he doesn't exactly have an extensive track record. Is he better than Evason or Woodcroft? I don't know. Quenneville is an obviously great coach (who would lead into speed and offense too) but we know his problems.
As they probably should.I have been hoping for Q, but think that the bullshit with Chad Kelly means that MLSE will now avoid anyone with any kind of potential baggage.
Me too, I skpped the last yea4nof Boy Wonder, and will do likewise if idiot Keefe is still here. I’d like to say the same for Shanahan, but that POS will no doubt continue to ruin the team, let’s see what said POS has to say this week…….How does Keefe still have a job? I will give them until after the Friday press conference. I'm jumping ship if he's still on board after that.
Probably because despite a ton of failures of Keefe getting them farther in the playoffs, management offered him a two year extension bringing him to 2026. So going into the season, top brass loves him.Why are we discussing the possibility of the Leafs keeping any of the existing coaching staff? They have failed year in, year out. How in the actual f*** do you trot out the same group of 5 guys on the powerplay when they're 1/20? Not one change? That is beyond inexcusable.
After the whole Babcock fiasco, it feels like fans picking coaches is useless. Not to say there aren't good ones and good options, but so much is about fit over nameThat's a fair issue. You'd also have to look at their roster and if it got any better after he left. The alternative is keeping Keefe or going with someone just as bad or inexperienced seems like a similar issue.
I'd push for Todd Nelson but that's probably not happening.
Personally I think he is overrated.Is Berube really the saviour? He was destroyed in Philly, considered an absolute shit coach. He gets the interim gig in St Louis, basically a desperate move, on what looks a lost season, run out the string. The team catches lightning in a bottle and goes on an incredible run, makes the playoffs and has everything go their way to the promised land. He never comes near repeating it and is actually sub .500 for his career. Regardless, he has the pedigree, he’d walk in here with cache, remind you of anyone else?
Gerard Gallant is as interesting to me. Ditto Joel Q. I’m not 100 percent sold Berube is all that.